Article: Trevor May States His Case

[jimmer]

 

International signing cap space. With the Twins rumored to be in on what's-his-face (DR SS), they could use more international cap space.

and trading Milone would add to our international cap space?

[Brock Beauchamp]

and trading Milone would add to our international cap space?

I believe diehard was saying that Milone could be traded for cap space, not that just trading him would automatically clear cap space.

[jimmer]

 

I believe diehard was saying that Milone could be traded for cap space, not that just trading him would automatically clear cap space.

how would that work?

[Brock Beauchamp]

how would that work?

I'd have to read up on the details - I've only glanced at the rules - but teams can now trade international bonus space. I think you trade the slot and the receiving team then receives X number of additional dollars to their signing pool.

[jimmer]

 

 

how would that work?

 

I'm trying to learn something here, that's why all the questions on this subject. If a team can trade a guy to a team and, in return, get international cap space that's new info to me and good to know.

Edited March 22, 2015 by jimmer

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yep, just accidentally hit submit before I typed anything.

[jokin]

 

And before anyone writes in Milone or Pelfrey, remember last season. A good portion of this board had written Gibson out of the rotation because the Twins soooo love their veterans.

Personally, I'm pulling for May to get the job. I felt that way last September and nothing has changed.

 

Gibson did well last spring, but it wasn't like any of the veterans he was pitted against showed anything suggesting that they deserved the spot over him.    It's a lot closer call this year.

Edited March 22, 2015 by jokin

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Not saying you're wrong about Meyer and May, but I'm interested in knowing why you feel this way other than the fact the Twins sent Meyer down already and they haven't done so with May (along with May having a few games in the majors with wildly inconsistent results).

 

Also, cap space?  Please elaborate.

 

What Brock said on the cap space.  It sounds like they are going all in for the international market this July, if so, they'll want the dollars, and some teams b/c they over spent last season have dollars to trade b/c they cannot use them.  I could see a lot of those teams sending a couple slots our way for Tommy.

 

As for the Meyer vs. May thing, there are a few reasons.

 

1)  Meyer's walk rate needs to drop and he needs to refine that changeup.  May was in the same boat coming into 2014 and did exactly that.  He pitched better than Meyer did in AAA last season, and it wasn't particularly close.  I get that Meyer has better stuff, but he's still sorting out those control issues, and I'd rather him do that in Rochester than in the majors.  The majors will present it's own challenges.

 

2)  Workload issues.  May is ready to go a full major league season.  Meyer was working in a limited capacity last season.  That's not a huge reason in itself, but Meyer is likely only going to go 160 IP this season, which means a lot of his starts at the big league level will end an inning early or he's going to get shelved in September (assuming all goes well).  You can do that earlier in the season in Rochester with the hopes of bringing Meyer up at some point later in the year (due to injury, a trade, or Ricky Nolasco deciding to retire ). 

 

3)  ML experience.  May has this, he predictably struggled in his first go around, but he also was much better his second month (he was actually a  pretty decent pitcher his second month).  He's a lot like Gibson was last season in the sense that it's clear he was learning some things at the big league level, and he needs an extended trial to prove it.  Unlike Gibson though, his stuff has translated and was getting those much valued Ks.  On top of that, he was also clearly nervous and now that he's got that out of his way, I suspect a lot of those issues will take care of themselves.  I think May is a guy who could potentially be a 2/3 type starter, and he's more ready now.  I get that Meyer could be a #1 at some point, but for those that want to win now, I think May gives them a better shot right now of doing that. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I'd have to read up on the details - I've only glanced at the rules - but teams can now trade international bonus space. I think you trade the slot and the receiving team then receives X number of additional dollars to their signing pool.

 

That's pretty much it.  Some teams are going to have extra dollars too because they overspent.  They still have those slot dollars, but since they are being penalized, they cannot sign players for more than $300k. 

[jimmer]

 

What Brock said on the cap space.  It sounds like they are going all in for the international market this July, if so, they'll want the dollars, and some teams b/c they over spent last season have dollars to trade b/c they cannot use them.  I could see a lot of those teams sending a couple slots our way for Tommy.

 

As for the Meyer vs. May thing, there are a few reasons.

 

1)  Meyer's walk rate needs to drop and he needs to refine that changeup.  May was in the same boat coming into 2014 and did exactly that.  He pitched better than Meyer did in AAA last season, and it wasn't particularly close.  I get that Meyer has better stuff, but he's still sorting out those control issues, and I'd rather him do that in Rochester than in the majors.  The majors will present it's own challenges.

 

2)  Workload issues.  May is ready to go a full major league season.  Meyer was working in a limited capacity last season.  That's not a huge reason in itself, but Meyer is likely only going to go 160 IP this season, which means a lot of his starts at the big league level will end an inning early or he's going to get shelved in September (assuming all goes well).  You can do that earlier in the season in Rochester with the hopes of bringing Meyer up at some point later in the year (due to injury, a trade, or Ricky Nolasco deciding to retire ). 

 

3)  ML experience.  May has this, he predictably struggled in his first go around, but he also was much better his second month (he was actually a  pretty decent pitcher his second month).  He's a lot like Gibson was last season in the sense that it's clear he was learning some things at the big league level, and he needs an extended trial to prove it.  Unlike Gibson though, his stuff has translated and was getting those much valued Ks.  On top of that, he was also clearly nervous and now that he's got that out of his way, I suspect a lot of those issues will take care of themselves.  I think May is a guy who could potentially be a 2/3 type starter, and he's more ready now.  I get that Meyer could be a #1 at some point, but for those that want to win now, I think May gives them a better shot right now of doing that. 

thanks to you and Brock for the cap space info.  I literally had no idea about this. Never heard this and I love to learn, so that's great stuff.

 

And I appreciate you putting out that reasoning so eloquently.  I agree May is more polished, I'm not sure Meyer is going to get any more out of being in the minors.

Edited March 22, 2015 by jimmer

[Dantes929]

 

Hughes learned in the big leagues.  There is only so much learning in the minors.  Let's start getting young arms in the bigs while they are still young.  We put up with Nolasco, Correia... because they were vets.  I want the Twins to get over that and start putting the young pitchers with major league coaches on major league mounds.

I have followed the Twins pretty closely and just don't get it.   Four years ago, mostly due to nonperformance and guys getting hurt the Twins were promoting guys that were not even doing well in the minors.    In the years since they have promoted Hicks (who everyone besides me thinks was promoted TOO early), DeVries, Walters, Pino, Deduno, Hendriks, May, Robertson, Parmalee, Florimon, May, Arcia, Colabello, Fryer, Bernier, Pinto, Diamond, Gibson, Thielbar, Albers, Johnson, Darnell, Santana, and Vargas just to name a few.    Meyer is the ONLY guy that deserved a promotion that did not get one and that was probably due to innings and pitch limits after the shoulder strain at the end of 2013.   I thought they should have brought him up in September but that is the ONLY ONE I can think of.     Who are all these talented position  players and flame throwing pitchers that have stagnated in the minors over the years?     

[Thrylos]

 

  I think at the end of the day you can get him for cap space

 

I wish   Wrong sport

[Dantes929]

 

thanks to you and Brock for the cap space info.  I literally had no idea about this. Never heard this and I love to learn, so that's great stuff.

 

And I appreciate you putting out that reasoning so eloquently.  I agree May is more polished, I'm not sure Meyer is going to get any more out of being in the minors.

I agree.   I just think May had a better year last year and deserves his shot first.   No harm to Meyer in stretching out in the minors until a starter falters.   Its kind of bound to happen and its only good if everyone pitches so well that he never gets his chance.    I'm not betting on that.

[Seth Stohs]

Yup, a player can be traded for an agreed-upon amount of international cap space.

[tobi0040]

I guess if may loses to pelfrey or milone, I question the point if giving him 10 starts last year. He got the nerves out, learned how to get hitters out towards the end, learned what he can't do (walk guys in bunches). What is the point of sending him back? He needs to build off last year.

 

IMO, he will likely put up better numbers in April and had way more upside. This is a no brainer.

[Paul Pleiss]

Trevor May for President of the 5th Twins 5th rotation spot

 

"I have upside, and I know how to miss bats."

 

Vote now! You decide!

[Paul Pleiss]

Mike Pelfrey for President of the 5th Twins 5th rotation spot

 

"I'm actually a sasquatch, and I promise I'm finally healthy"

[Paul Pleiss]

Tommy Milone for President of the 5th Twins 5th rotation spot

 

"I have a sub 4.00 career ERA. I've actually, you know, performed well at the MLB level."

[jimmer]

 

Tommy Milone for President of the 5th Twins 5th rotation spot

 

"I have a sub 4.00 career ERA. I've actually, you know, performed well at the MLB level."

The guy who is so good he has seen three major league teams, has been traded twice (one time for Sam Fuld by a guy who has a good track record for knowing talent) and yet still hasn't reach arbitration yet.

 

Has an AL FIP around 4.30 and likely had a quality ERA due to a very good pitcher's park and quality defense behind him because he isn't striking out a good chunk of guys.

[twinsnorth49]

I didn't see a lot in May's performance in late Aug-Sept to indicate he can't be the most effective 5th starter on this team. I think he was ahead of where Gibson was at the same point in his first go round, much further in his K rate.

[h2oface]

In regards to "still learning"........ the player in the majors (or the minors) that isn't still learning is a player that will soon be out of a job. Everyone that is successful in this game is always still learning and adjusting, even from pitch to pitch and game to game. If not, the end is near.

Edited March 23, 2015 by h2oface

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Mike Pelfrey for President of the 5th Twins 5th rotation spot

 

"I'm actually a sasquatch, and I promise I'm finally healthy"

"promises not to stay past the end of the season"

[Kwak]

I guess if may loses to pelfrey or milone, I question the point if giving him 10 starts last year. He got the nerves out, learned how to get hitters out towards the end, learned what he can't do (walk guys in bunches). What is the point of sending him back? He needs to build off last year.

The Twins painted themselves into a corner. The October 2014 proclamation of an $85MM budget "...is about enough..." signaled the Front Office's plan. An immediate howl of disdain came from the "paying peanut gallery". An additional $21MM was found (please tell me where I can find such largesse for me!) and Hunter and Santana were signed to free agent contracts. Bluntly, these guys were signed to immediately "turn the ship around" and WIN NOW. Implications:  Hunter and Santana are "regulars" and the entire team must commit to put "the best 9" (as of right now) on the field in order to WIN NOW. The "up-and-comers" will simply have to wait (unless of course a guy is deemed to be in the "best 9" group). 

[Mike Sixel]

I don't get the "it's better to throw limited innings in the minors, and never come up to the majors until you can throw 200 innings" argument. didn't get it last year, don't get it this year.

 

A pitch is a pitch on the arm. He's no less likely to be hurt in MN than in AAA. At some point, you need to get over being afraid, and try stuff, like, last year, in a LOST YEAR. But, alas, they did NOT try stuff last year (at least with pitchers other than May).

[tobi0040]

 

"promises not to stay past the end of the season"

I think he is due a three year extension after this year.  It maybe tough for him to decline that.