Reusse: Twins Fielding Calls On Eduardo Escobar

[jimmer]

 

Escobar, believe it or not, was an above average SS both offensively and defensively. Santana was above average offensively, but he never played SS. Both are certainly candidates for regression, but this is the second season where Eduardo has hit quite well for an extended period of time. I think Escobar's issue has more to do with longevity than talent as he wore down in 2013 and again last year (though to a lesser extent). Would I trade him? For the right price.

Personally, I'd probably put Santana in AAA to see if the bat is for real and let Escobar run out there every day in the short term. 

When was the other season? He didn't get enough PAs in 2013 and he was really good first month, then horrible 2nd month, then blah the 3rd month, then horrible the 4th month.  And none of those months did he have a lot of PAs (none of them did he see 50 PAs). He actually finished 2013 really well, so not sure it was about being tired.

 

Both Eduardo and Santana need to prove last year wasn't a big fluke.

[Willihammer]

This isn't coming from the Twins, is it? This is just Reusse speculating... right?

 

https://twitter.com/1500ESPN_Reusse/status/579644317138026497

[Rosterman]

What is the value for Escobar. That is the question. Like others in the past, NOW would be the time to move the guy, especially if you are essentially making him a backup. I would rather see Dozier and Plouffe play everyday in their positions than rotate out to have Escobar get some at bats. 

 

Like others have mention, would the return be greater if you went the route of trading Santana, who could also be a fluke, of Dozier, who has speed and power but when talking baseball with a friend, we actually compared him to Roy Smalley, with a bit of Greg Gagne in him. 

 

And we have Polanco and Gordon in the hear wings.

 

But do we need more minor league depth? No one is going to trade an infield prospect for Escobar. Do we need an outfield prospect? Do we need an uncertain catching prospect? Do we need a high-round starter from last year's draft who is still unproven and 2-3-4 years away?

 

Again, Escobar has value. But if he is simply a backup, the next Ron Washington, Al Newman or Denny Hocking or even Nick Punto for the Twins, you sell him now as a starter and elt someone else worry about arbitration madness.

 

[gunnarthor]

 

 

Again, Escobar has value. But if he is simply a backup, the next Ron Washington, Al Newman or Denny Hocking or even Nick Punto for the Twins, you sell him now as a starter and elt someone else worry about arbitration madness.

Well, sure.  But the issue is whether other teams are willing to buy him now as a starter as opposed to a UI guy.

[tobi0040]

This sounds like a sell high to me.  He is a valuable piece as a utility guy, but if someone is willing to give up real value and believe in him as an everyday guy than I would trade him.

 

Now if we move him for some low ceiling AA reliever, we should keep the guy.

[Linus]

How about we actually let this play out and make sure that we end up with one good shortstop between the two of them.  Chances are, this is another situation that will sort itself out - we will not be happy if we trade Escobar and Santana struggles at short.  Back to the merry go round.....

 

Plus, Escobar will get plenty of playing time all over the diamond.  Good teams have good players, on the field and on the bench.  The Twins are getting there; they may not contend this year (they could) but they certainly could next year when it would be great to have a strong bench.  This debate isn't just about this year.

[jimmer]

 

How about we actually let this play out and make sure that we end up with one good shortstop between the two of them.

and it's possible that even if we keep both we won't end up with even one good shortstop.

[Willihammer]

Question:

 

Which position is there more doubt about, vis a vis Santana's glove

 

SS or CF?

[Mike Sixel]

Well, if Santana is good, you won't see much Escobar, so how will you know last year was not a mirage.

 

If they really believe in Santana and the guys in the minors.....and if someone wants to offer value for a starting SS (not value for a utility guy), then I don't see how you don't trade him.

 

If either of those is not true, I don't see why you do trade him.

 

I have no idea if the second is true or not.......

[Linus]

 

Question:

 

Which position is there more doubt about, vis a vis Santana's glove

 

SS or CF?

We are going to find out - that is why this is a proper move.  SS is such an important position that you have to see if Santana, with the greater ceiling, can do it.  If he can, then you have improved your team at its most important position, for many years.

 

Plus, Esco can play damn near full time just resting guys and filling in for guys on the DL. 

[Willihammer]

 

We are going to find out - that is why this is a proper move.  SS is such an important position that you have to see if Santana, with the greater ceiling, can do it.  If he can, then you have improved your team at its most important position, for many years.

Santana has logged 3835 innings at shortstop in his career, and 722 at Center Field. I would think the bigger question is, can he be a two way player that can stick at CF in addition to SS?

 

Think about how valuable that player would be.

[tobi0040]

 

Santana has logged 3835 innings at shortstop in his career, and 722 at Center Field. I would think the bigger question is, can he be a two way player that can stick at CF in addition to SS?

 

Think about how valuable that player would be.

 

Especially if he could play both at the same time.

[Linus]

 

Santana has logged 3835 innings at shortstop in his career, and 722 at Center Field. I would think the bigger question is, can he be a two way player that can stick at CF in addition to SS?

 

Think about how valuable that player would be.

Well, when the best prospect in baseball is your next CF, I'm thinking it is way more important for him to reach his ceiling at SS, without the delays and distractions of playing CF for one year or less.

[jimmer]

 

Especially if he could play both at the same time.

Only Punto could do such defensive wizardry.

[Willihammer]

 

Well, when the best prospect in baseball is your next CF, I'm thinking it is way more important for him to reach his ceiling at SS, without the delays and distractions of playing CF for one year or less.

That kind of planning got us into this current fiasco with Hicks.

 

And it does not change the fact that a two way, up the middle player, could be tremendousbly valuable in trade, if Buxton does pan out.

[jimmer]

 

That kind of planning got us into this current fiasco with Hicks.

 

And it does not change the fact that a two way, up the middle player, could be tremendousbly valuable in trade, if Buxton does pan out.

well, assuming Santana's likely BABIP regression doesn't kill his offensive value and he can show some defensive proficiency at either position, yeah.

[tobi0040]

 

Only Punto could do such defensive wizardry.

 

You are right. What was I thinking.

[h2oface]

Trade, trade, trade. Sell High. Hey....... Just keep trading off guys that are just getting started for more prospects. The Twins can have the best farm system for years. Who cares about the mother team when you can have the best farm system? It can always happen, well, next year. 

[Thrylos]

 

This isn't coming from the Twins, is it? This is just Reusse speculating... right?

 

https://twitter.com/1500ESPN_Reusse/status/579644317138026497

I hope so.  If Vargas is in Rochester, then Hunter and Pinto better rotate at DH, with Hunter getting most reps. 

[Linus]

 

That kind of planning got us into this current fiasco with Hicks.

 

And it does not change the fact that a two way, up the middle player, could be tremendousbly valuable in trade, if Buxton does pan out.

I know that you intentionally didn't compare Buxton to Hicks.  If Buxton is not our CF of the future, I can assure you that all of us will be posting about topics other than Danny Santana.

 

And please don't forget that prior to the CF fiasco, the greatest fiasco the Twins battled for years was............SS.

[Willihammer]

 

I know that you intentionally didn't compare Buxton to Hicks.  If Buxton is not our CF of the future, I can assure you that all of us will be posting about topics other than Danny Santana.

 

And please don't forget that prior to the CF fiasco, the greatest fiasco the Twins battled for years was............SS.

If you want to quibble about it, Buxton was #6 on the last prospect ranking I saw, not #1. But the point is the same either way - planning around a prospect who hasn't even conquered AA is foolish. Further, if the Twins should be so lucky to have two qualified CFers in a few years they will have no trouble moving one of them. Again, the Span and Revere trades.

 

And, this isn't 2009 anymore. The Twins have almost turned over their entire system. Organizationally they're pretty strong in middle infielders. OFers, not so much.

[jay]

 

and it's possible that even if we keep both we won't end up with even one good shortstop.

 

Thanks for the sunshine! 

[Kwak]

Santana wasn't "all that" as a CF. He was fast (so was Revere), his routes weren't special (anybody have memories of a Torii Hunter 10 years ago?), his throws were too often off target. We weren't seeing (defensively speaking) Griffey Jr., Devon White, or even Torii Hunter. In short, Santana wasn't and still isn't "the answer" at CF. What he did was hit and generate offense. Santana's offense was such a breath of fresh air we sort of overlooked his "warts". There is no reason to believe that those hitting results were exclusive to Santana as a CF as opposed to being a SS. Santana's Spring 2015 has been all that could be hoped (so far). We should applaud him and welcome him as the SS of today and hopefully the future.

[jokin]

 

. What he did was hit and generate offense. Santana's offense was such a breath of fresh air we sort of overlooked his "warts". There is no reason to believe that those hitting results were exclusive to Santana as a CF as opposed to being a SS. Santana's Spring 2015 has been all that could be hoped (so far). We should applaud him and welcome him as the SS of today and hopefully the future.

 

Yep.    If anything, this spring Santana has been even more BABIP-tastic than last year.  It would be nice to see him work deep a few counts, only one BB so far.    In the meantime, we can all enjoy the space-ride before it comes crashing back down to earth.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I put little to no stock in plate discipline in Spring Training. The pitchers are hurling fastballs, the hitters are looking for pitches to hit.

 

With that said, I doubt Santana is going to become some kind of walk machine once April rolls around... The question is whether his discipline has improved and Spring Training isn't going to tell us that one way or the other.

 

Joe "I hate to swing the bat" Mauer has all of 2 BB this March.

[jokin]

 

I put little to no stock in plate discipline in Spring Training. The pitchers are hurling fastballs, the hitters are looking for pitches to hit.

 

With that said, I doubt Santana is going to become some kind of walk machine once April rolls around... The question is whether his discipline has improved and Spring Training isn't going to tell us that one way or the other.

 

Joe "I hate to swing the bat" Mauer has all of 2 BB this March.

 

I get that players want to swing away in ST.    I specifically mentioned that it would serve Santana well long-term, to work the count better and deeper.    I don't have all the data, but he does have 7 Ks, and with my only evidence being my own two eyes, he has been vulnerable to swinging and missing badly at low/outside balls out of the zone, especially with two strikes.

 

As far as I know, no one from the organization has addressed how they are planning on dealing with Santana's primary challenge to his future offensive success, especially for a guy who appears to be tapped by the Twins as their 2015 primary lead-off man.    The Laws of BABIP regression are pretty cut and dried, I have no doubt that Jack Goin and Paul Molitor are well aware of this.        

 

I've enjoyed the rise of Santana- his compact and quick swing, ability to hit the ball hard + with some power, as well as his burner speed- no doubt that his was the best Twins individual story from 2014.    But I fear the fall might be epic, which might be compounded with the further high expectations piled onto Santana's plate as the Designee-Apparent @ SS. 

[jorgenswest]

Is there a team with a CF or C of similar age, team control and perceived value? Does that team need a SS?

 

I wouldn't take a similar corner or bullpen piece for Escobar. They aren't going to get a league average starter with team control for him. They already have enough back end guys.

 

It doesn't seem likely that a trade partner fit exists. If they can't get up that up the middle guy, I would keep the one they have. They will need him this year. Nunez doesn't have the glove to get regular play anywhere other than possibly 3B.