Article: Josmil Pinto and Throwing Out Runners

[Parker Hageman]

When camp opened, the Minnesota Twins’ manager Paul Molitor discussed the grim realities of the team’s inabilities to stop opponents from stealing bases. The game, he believes, has shifted to one that focuses on speed rather than power. Stopping the other team from turning a single into a double was going to be a point of emphasis heading into 2015.

 

Last year, when veteran catcher Kurt Suzuki was not behind the plate, opponents stole at will off the Twins’ battery. Central to those stolen bases was rookie backstop Josmil Pinto. While he was behind the plate runners went 20-for-20 in stolen base attempts, by far the highest number of bases swiped in MLB without recording an out.

 

But here’s the question: Was Pinto’s run defense that bad?Last season started off on the right foot. Last spring training he and pitcher Jared Burton would combined to take down the Blue Jay’s Anthony Gose -- who would go on to swipe 15 on 20 attempts. The mechanics were nearly flawless as he received and transitioned in almost one motion.

 

When the regular season started, it was Gose in Minnesota who would test Pinto first. With Mike Pelfrey delivering a 89-mile per hour two-seamer, Gose beats Pinto’s throw to second by a small margin. The replay shows a strong throw that is nanoseconds late. Mechanically, Pinto repeats the same motion as seen below.

 

Download attachment: Gose_4.17_GOTHEEM.png

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It would be during his next attempt at nailing a runner that things went go awry for Pinto. Two days after his near-hit with Gose, the Twins were in Kansas City fending off a Royals rally. With Nori Aoki on second and Omar Infante on first with one out, Kevin Correia delivered to the plate and both Royal runners scampered. Kansas City demonstrated the highest tendency to take third in 2014 (they went 29-for-36) and the Twins appeared to have the situation measured. With the left-handed batting Eric Hosmer at the plate, Pinto had a clear line to third and had Aoki, the lead runner, by multiple steps.

 

However.

 

Pinto unleashed a throw that was airmailed to Omaha. All Plouffe could do was feign a leaping attempt while the ball sailed well over his head, allowing Aoki to score, putting the Royals up 5-to-2 in the fourth.

 

http://i.imgur.com/IIy8HBd.gif

 

For the most part, everything is going in the right direction for Pinto on this play. His footwork is good and the arm action is strong but his release is off. The Twins would scratch and claw back to 5-4 but the one run would be the difference-maker between losing 92 games and losing just 91 games. Maybe it was lack of confidence or maybe it was just inevitable but from that point forward, Pinto’s throwing unraveled.

 

Runners had gone six-for-six against Pinto by May 31 though it could have easily have been 4-for-6 if either the Gose or Aoki play went slightly different. (I guess you could also says that if things had gone slightly different I may have been the one dating Katie Upton. Make believe is fun.) From May 1 to May 31, Pinto had gone six games without anyone challenging him on the bases. That would change against the Yankees.

 

In the bottom of the eighth and the game tied at one apiece, Twins reliever Brian Duensing allowed a one-out single to speedster Jacoby Ellsbury. The reigning 2013 AL thief would get a fairly substantial jump on the left-handed Duensing, taking advantage of an offspeed pitch:

 

Download attachment: Ellsburg_5.31_jump2.png

The pitch came in low, which Pinto backhanded on his knees, and proceeded to throw the ball while kneeling.

 

Download attachment: Ellsburg_5.31_SB1.png

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While ugly, Pinto was able to get off a strong throw that nearly nabbed Ellsbury. It was an impressive feat considering the jump Ellsbury got, the pitch he chose to run on and the location where Pinto had to catch it. In all, some catchers might opt to eat that base. The throw, however, hit Ellsbury in the leg on his slide and skipped into center field, allowing him to trot into third base.

 

Download attachment: Ellsburg_5.31_SB3.png

The following series sparked a line of bad throws as the Brewers took advantage of Pinto’s inability to stop the run game. In Milwaukee on June 3rd, Brewers’ shortstop Jean Segura took second after a swinging strikeout and a subsequent throw by Pinto that skipped well short of the base. Yet it was Twins’ pitcher Samuel Deduno who should probably shoulder some blame for the stolen base in that situation. Runners found the erratic Deduno to be the perfect patsy as they ran roughshod on him on the season (10-for-10).

 

Download attachment: Segura_6.3_jump.png

Download attachment: Segura_6.3_receive.png

When the border battle series returned to Minnesota a couple days later, the Brewers once again took advantage of Pinto’s throwing. First it was the large Mark Reynolds who would take second -- selecting a Caleb Thielbar curveball to run on -- as Pinto’s throw traveled off target. Later that inning Jean Segura took another base on a first-pitch curve that Ryan Braun even stepped away from and gave Pinto a clean throwing lane. If Pinto had a hint of a fighting chance to stop Segura, it was killed by his 123-foot offline throw.

 

Download attachment: Segura_6.5_receive.png

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The Brewers had demonstrated an uncanny knack for running on breaking and offspeed pitches. All four bases Milwaukee swindled from under Pinto’s watch came on non-fastballs -- certainly a disadvantage for the catcher -- but bringing his season total to 0-for-13 nonetheless.

 

The young backstop was entering rare territory. Just a handful of catchers had accumulated that many attempts without throwing out at least one runner in a season. Following the Milwaukee series, the Twins set out to study and analyze film while bench coach Terry Steinbach revisited his mechanics. The film study likely reflected a lot of what is seen above: Opponents were able to select favorable pitches to run on and Pinto's throws were becoming increasingly offline.

 

Whatever the film said and whatever Steinbach offered as advice did not help.

 

In his next game behind the plate against the Astros he was once again picked apart. The eventual 2014 AL stolen base winner Jose Altuve added two bags off of pitcher Deduno and Pinto. Based on his jumps and Deduno’s inability to keep his close, Pinto stood small chance of succeeding in throwing him out on either attempt. Robbie Grossman would tack one on as well.

 

Download attachment: Altuva_6.8_throw.png

When the Twins signed Kendrys Morales midseason, they pointed to Pinto’s lowly offensive production, his pitch framing and throwing woes as reason to send him back to Rochester. “This is the right thing to do,” manager Ron Gardenhire told reporters after they announced Pinto’s demotion. “He definitely has to work on some things (defensively). He’s been getting a little sloppy trying to set his feet for throws and not framing the ball. There’s issues here, and this is going to help him. This kid has a chance to be a starting catcher, not a backup catcher. We believe in his offense.”

 

When he was recalled from Rochester in September, the streak continued as runners went unhindered to the next base. On September 5, Angels’ Mike Trout took second base effortlessly on a Ricky Nolasco 80-mile per hour curve. Later that game Trout possibly aided teammate Kole Calhoun’s thievery by loitering too long over home plate:

 

Download attachment: CalhounTrou_9.5.png

Download attachment: CalhounTrou_9.5_SB.png

Would a clear throwing lane have allowed Pinto to make a better throw?

 

As the season progressed there was no doubt that Pinto’s throws were growing steadily worse. The last attempt, trying to thwart Detroit’s Austin Romine at second, sailed heavily to the second base side of the bag.

 

Download attachment: Romine_9.28_SB.png

The video review of Pinto’s throws (with the exception of three early season attempts that are lost in the internet ether) shows a trend of offline attempts. Overall, Pinto’s footwork and mechanics do not seem terrible. He threw often with a closed foot but that is a trait that was shared by the Padres’ Rene Rivera, who had the best base-kill rates among catchers in 2014. Compared to Rivera’s howitzer (or even teammate Kurt Suzuki’s arm) Pinto’s arm strength at times appeared weak. Perhaps Pinto’s offseason shoulder injury played a substantial role in his throwing.

 

What is expected out of Pinto for this season? Depends on who you ask.

 

Pinto claims his main purpose for playing in the winter leagues this offseason was to focus on the defensive skills. "That's the first reason I went to Venezuela," Pinto told MLB.com’s Rhett Bollinger. "I wanted to catch a couple games and improve my defense. It was the first year I played a complete season. So it was good."

 

Manager Paul Molitor seems to favor his offensive potential and does not think Pinto’s defense was necessarily the disaster the data suggests. He believes his defensive miscues were a product of mental struggles. “I saw him vastly improve when he was with [manager] Jeff Smith in Double-A,” Molitor told reporters in camp this year. “t was like a hitter going into a slump. He was unsuccessful a couple of times, so you try to get quicker and your arm slot changes. There were a couple of times he came out for early work, which is a good thing, but he had trouble with his accuracy. So it got a little mental for him.”

 

In a recent Q&A with Fox Sports North, General Manager Terry Ryan echoed Molitor’s assessment of Pinto, saying that his 2014 demotion was based on his offense and not his inability to control the run game. Ryan also believed he saw improvement out of Pinto in his stint in Rochester.

 

The Twins have clearly invested the bulk of the catching time in Kurt Suzuki but with his offensive potential and need to give the aging Suzuki more time off the Twins need Pinto to contribute in all aspects in 2015.

 

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[Willihammer]

When the Twins signed Kendrys Morales midseason, they pointed to Pinto’s lowly offensive production, his pitch framing and throwing woes as reason to send him back to Rochester. “This is the right thing to do,” manager Ron Gardenhire told reporters after they announced Pinto’s demotion. “He definitely has to work on some things (defensively). He’s been getting a little sloppy trying to set his feet for throws and not framing the ball. There’s issues here, and this is going to help him. This kid has a chance to be a starting catcher, not a backup catcher. We believe in his offense.”

Thought he was sent down for his bat?

[nytwinsfan]

Fantastic analysis. Gives me hope for Pinto's defense.

[Shane Wahl]

You have a knack for timely and important articles. This was a great read and confirmed some things I had thought about Pinto last year. A. He wasn't just some terrible defender, but was also unlucky. B. Most of the throwing mistakes are due to being erratic and maybe trying too much with his throws (like Sano at third). C. Terry Steinbach's departure is quite warranted. D. Molitor is smart and isn't going to follow Gardy's lead here.

[nytwinsfan]

Thought he was sent down for his bat?

 

That is what Ryan is saying now. I don't think it was mostly what they were saying at the time. Although they probably said something about his bat at the time too, I remember it being mostly about defense.

[Parker Hageman]

That is what Ryan is saying now. I don't think it was mostly what they were saying at the time.

Fairly certain it was a little bit of everything. He had been in an 14-for-70 (.200) slide since the beginning of May and Kendrys Morales' addition gave the Twins a DH option. 

 

I can't find Ryan's comments at that time but these were Gardenhire's response:

 

“He needs to play,” Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said. “It’s not fair to him to sit. He needs to go down and get at-bats right now. He’s had his issues throwing. He’s had his issues catching the ball lately. I think it’s probably due to not getting enough reps back there.”

 

{snip}

 

“This is the right thing to do,” Gardenhire said. “He definitely has to work on some things (defensively). He’s been getting a little sloppy trying to set his feet for throws and not framing the ball. There’s issues here, and this is going to help him. This kid has a chance to be a starting catcher, not a backup catcher. We believe in his offense.”

 

[jimmer]

“This is the right thing to do,” Gardenhire said. “He definitely has to work on some things (defensively). He’s been getting a little sloppy trying to set his feet for throws and not framing the ball.

It's ironic Gardenhire pointed out framing considering who he chose as his starting catcher.

 

Not that framing is important or has a real effect on runs allowed or anything :-)

Edited March 4, 2015 by jimmer

[Parker Hageman]

Not that framing is important or has a real effect on runs allowed or anything :-)

 

 

I will still argue the "how important" (i.e. the value metric) is still up for debate but when a pitcher like Glen Perkins calls out your framing skills then I think that skill definitely needs work:

 

"He's a long ways away, to be honest with you," Perkins said. "Balls close to the zone, balls below the zone . . . I guess I don't really know about blocking and all those things. But his pitching framing, he's got some work to do. I don't know what level he's at, but he's surely not at the big-league level as far as catching for me."

 

 

[jimmer]

I will still argue the "how important" (i.e. the value metric) is still up for debate but when a pitcher like Glen Perkins calls out your framing skills then I think that skill definitely needs work:

Suzuki is horrible at framing as well was my point.  Never heard Gardy or anyone else on the team point that out.

 

According to Stat Corner and BP , Suzuki is even worse than Pinto.

Edited March 4, 2015 by jimmer

[Han Joelo]

"Peter. What is up."

 

"Umm, well, my sales were a little down las month, so I thought I'd read up about pitch framing. "

 

"Right. Why don't you go ahead and send me a memo about that when you are done. Anybody that can understand pitch framing has punched their ticket for upper management. "

[Willihammer]

The Twins signed Morales with the intent was to flip him at the deadline, as per the rebuild. That was clear from the get-go. Pinto had an option that availed them of the PT required to do that. OK, fine. Why feed us these lines as he's headed out the door? He took one for the team.

[Shane Wahl]

Any decision that doesn't involve Pinto learning on the job as the backup catcher and backup DH (and getting some time when Mauer is just out of the lineup altogether) is just ridiculous. He clearly has to be the backup catcher.

[dxpavelka]

"Pinto claims his main purpose for playing in the winter leagues this offseason was to focus on his defensive skills."

 

The man's been a professional baseball player since 2006.  How did it take until 2014 to realize he needs to work on defense?

[DJL44]

Great article. I appreciate the effort and the presentation.

 

It is interesting trying to synthesize what I've read about Suzuki's pitch framing and why it doesn't match perception. From what I've read he's bad at framing the low strike. He's also the top catcher at blocking pitches in the dirt and those are probably interrelated. The low strike that Suzuki is not getting called has only recently been called due to video umpire feedback. When Suzuki was being instructed on catching he was probably told that was a ball and the most important thing was to make sure it was caught. He may be able to alter his approach with the right coaching.

[Otto von Ballpark]

"Pinto claims his main purpose for playing in the winter leagues this offseason was to focus on his defensive skills."

 

The man's been a professional baseball player since 2006.  How did it take until 2014 to realize he needs to work on defense?

I don't think the quote matches your interpretation at all.  That he focused this winter on defense does not mean he did not work on defense before.  He simply may have reached a point in his career where he wanted to (or was instructed to) shift priorities, quite probably because of data and experiences that were new to him and his bosses in 2014.  Happens in every job and role in life.

[ScrapTheNickname]

You have a knack for timely and important articles. This was a great read and confirmed some things I had thought about Pinto last year. A. He wasn't just some terrible defender, but was also unlucky. B. Most of the throwing mistakes are due to being erratic and maybe trying too much with his throws (like Sano at third). C. Terry Steinbach's departure is quite warranted. D. Molitor is smart and isn't going to follow Gardy's lead here.

Oops

[ScrapTheNickname]

Who on the 2015 coaching staff is an expert in catching, or was a catcher? I don't know the answer. Not being snarky.

 

Anyone?

[ScrapTheNickname]

"Peter. What is up." "Umm, well, my sales were a little down las month, so I thought I'd read up about pitch framing. " "Right. Why don't you go ahead and send me a memo about that when you are done. Anybody that can understand pitch framing has punched their ticket for upper management. "

I had some pictures framed once, and they did a 7 out of 10 good job, above league average.

[iTwins]

"Pinto claims his main purpose for playing in the winter leagues this offseason was to focus on his defensive skills."

 

The man's been a professional baseball player since 2006.  How did it take until 2014 to realize he needs to work on defense?

Stating his main purpose for playing this winter was to focus on his defense does not mean that he has never worked on his defense previously.

 

Also, flaws in a players game have a funny habit of being exposed once a player reaches the highest level of competition. He may have been able to get by for years at the lower levels, catching runners who weren't as skilled, helping boost his overall numbers. Now that most runners he's trying to nab are of a higher quality, his flaws become apparent.

[Platoon]

While they got an occasional one here and there I don't recall our other catchers putting up HOF numbers in the throwing department either. Pinto also was saddled with the honor of being named as Samuel Dedunos personal catcher! Nothing says managerial brilliance as much as pairing a high strung pitcher who needs a stabilizing catcher, with an inexperienced young catcher whose defense, pitch calling, and framing is being questioned by that very same manager! As for running on breaking balls and on good counts, that is hopefully something that Twins runners work on also. It takes an awfully good jump to steal on a letter high fastball.

[Parker Hageman]

Who on the 2015 coaching staff is an expert in catching, or was a catcher? I don't know the answer. Not being snarky.

 

Anyone?

 

 

Joe Vavra caught two games in his minor league career. 

 

Apparently, he's in charge of the catchers this year:

 

https://twitter.com/LaVelleNeal/status/569885881206616064

 

https://twitter.com/MillerStrib/status/570284978564501504

[Platoon]

It's ironic Gardenhire pointed out framing considering who he chose as his starting catcher.

 

Not that framing is important or has a real effect on runs allowed or anything :-)

Agreed. While the metrics of pitch framing might be a work in progress, the art itself is a big part of balls and strikes. Umpires are human. They are emotional, they like certain practices, and they like to be made to look good. A catcher can contribute to that a lot. It's not easy to define, or describe, but certain catchers get strikes called more often than others on the same pitch. Consistently catching the ball just off the outside corner with your glove turned slightly in will get you a few of those. Catching that pitch with an away motion gets you none of them. There are a lot of others, but suffice it to say that how the ball is caught can make or break the call on close pitches over the course of a game.

[Shane Wahl]

Pinto's bat is going to push Suzuki out of the way.

[AlwaysinModeration]

That's an impressive amount of work Parker, nice piece. I wonder if the team will give Pinto the silent treatment the first time he throws a runner out this year.

[Parker Hageman]

It's not easy to define, or describe, but certain catchers get strikes called more often than others on the same pitch. Consistently catching the ball just off the outside corner with your glove turned slightly in will get you a few of those. Catching that pitch with an away motion gets you none of them.

 

 

Revisited some of the film on Pinto on pitches that were in the zone but got called a ball or borderline pitches that were not called strikes but other catchers had coaxed a strike call. There are clearly some mannerisms that he does that might dissuade the umpire's decision. You see that his glove moves a lot when receiving it and, in the case of some borderline pitchers, he showed a propensity towards moving the glove back towards the zone. 

 

My belief is that an umpire needs to call the pitch where it crossed but there is a grey area -- not to mention pitch movement:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZBT2ub-OHM

 

Bigger picture, I really enjoyed this interview with a former MLB umpire who basically said it shouldn't be called "framing" it should be called "catching correctly":

 

"Everybody says, ‘Oh, he’s a good framer, he’s a bad framer,’ and that’s just an entertainment word. It’s just, he caught the ball correctly. And what I mean by that is if he catches the low pitches with his palm up, so the ball comes up, catches the high pitch down, catches the outside pitches with the fingers turned in. But catching the ball correctly means the steadiness of the glove. As long as the ball is received steadily with a strong hand, then it’s a lot easier to see the pitches. And every time they do that and they go ‘Oh, he’s a good framer,’ well, no, he’s just catching the pitch correctly. That’s just my interpretation. And I was in the big league for about 30 years, so I’ve seen all sorts of catching, and good catching will make it easier for umpires to call more strikes.”

 

{snip}

 

"Lots of times, you want to work, obviously, behind catchers who catch the ball correctly. And if you want to use that word ‘frame’—but ‘frame,’ to me, is like you’re trying to trick somebody. And they don’t trick you because they hold it and turn it, move it, and they go, ‘Oh look, I’m framing’—he’s not, you’re not fooling anybody. You see the guy move the ball, and my first words are, ‘Hey, keep that glove still or it’s going to be a ball.’ Very rarely do they do that. I’ll tell you, he can pull that ball in anywhere, if it’s not in the strike zone, they’re not going to call it a strike. … Little League you see guys pulling the balls all over, and you go, ‘Oh, look, he fooled the umpire.’ Well, that’s easy, easy. It doesn’t happen at the major-league level.”

 

{snip}

 

“You get guys that catch a low pitch and drive it into the ground. And it might be in the strike zone, but it’s borderline low, it could be in the strike zone. If you catch it correctly, with the palm up and on the plate, you’re going to get it called a strike. If you don’t, it’s going be called a ball. Because it’s very difficult to call a strike when a ball is in the ground, even if it goes through the strike zone. And a lot of people don’t want to tell the truth, but that’s the way it is. Balls and strikes will be called where they go across the plate and how the catcher catches.”

 

 

Speaking to that last part, you see Pinto do that a lot: Catch the low borderline pitch with a downward stab and then bring it back up. Maybe I'll post about this tomorrow with some examples.

[bird]

It's ironic Gardenhire pointed out framing considering who he chose as his starting catcher.

 

Not that framing is important or has a real effect on runs allowed or anything :-)

 

I'm curious about who he should have chosen instead. His other choices were Fryer, Herrmann, Rohlfing, and Pinto as I recall. And Pinto was not an option really. Because pitch framing :-)

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Also for the sake of fairness, Pinto in 2013 threw out 5 of 11 base stealers and in 159 innings was not charged with a passed ball.

 

What changed between 2013 and 2014 (besides adding Suzuki and Steinbach). Another good question.

 

 

 

Correction: Steinbach also coached in 2013

Edited March 5, 2015 by Hosken Bombo Disco

[jimmer]

'I'm curious about who he should have chosen instead. His other choices were Fryer, Herrmann, Rohlfing, and Pinto as I recall. And Pinto was not an option really. Because pitch framing :-)'

 

your post here is funny because, yeah, Gardy didn't really choose Suzuki.  Suzuki was put upon him by Ryan, so my use of the word 'chosen' was off.  How about this: When your starting catcher is horrific at framing, maybe pointing out Pinto's flaws in framing might not be overly good because, apparently, the guy who signed Suzuki didn't care much about the skill to begin with?

Edited March 5, 2015 by jimmer

[Parker Hageman]

Also for the sake of fairness, Pinto in 2013 threw out 5 of 11 base stealers and in 159 innings was not charged with a passed ball.

 

 

Technically, he threw out 2 base-runners (the other three with pick-off/caught stealing that counts in the overall total) and one of the two he threw out was a botched hit-and-run by Oakland. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Technically, he threw out 2 base-runners (the other three with pick-off/caught stealing that counts in the overall total) and one of the two he threw out was a botched hit-and-run by Oakland.

 

Clarified-thanks.

 

More like 2-8 then. I would assume most qualifying catchers have similar data, however. Still, Pinto's small sample of 5-11 or 45% would have put him among the leaders.

 

Did Pinto attempt any catcher pick-offs in 2014 or did the coaches see those wild throws and tell him to stop throwing to bases? (It would be very defensible advice, in my opinion, but might play tricks with Pinto's confidence.) Not sure that "pickoff attempt" data is observed and recorded anywhere, so it's just an idle thought.