And since no one has said it yet...

 

I think we all know who the Twins should go after next.

 

Mark DeRosa

http://www.stlcardinalbaseball.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Mark-DeRosa.jpg

Duh

Come on.  the Twins bullpen is full of mediocre arms.  Calling up Burdi and bringing in a good bullpen arm to setup are not mutually exclusive moves. 

 

Luke Gregorson says the runner up for his services was an AL club with an established closer.  He chose the Astros as he'd likely have a chance to close. 

 

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2014/12/12/gregersons-quick-deal-follows-market-right-behind-millers/

 

Could have been the Twins.  In fact, considering the Twins are the Illuminati of baseball and Gregorson wouldn't divulge the secret club, how could there even be any doubt that it was the Twins?  There are very few established closers in the AL also. 

The price, years, and age [Lester and Hamels] are all pretty similar

Not really.  Age, yes.  (Born within days of each other.)  But Lester is signed for 6 guaranteed years, $155M.  Hamels is 4 more years, $94M.  Each has an optional year at the end, that the respective team controls by giving up a few million extra (Hamels' is $6M, I don't know Lester's).  One can cut ties with Hamels after age 34, Lester will be around until 36.  Pretty big difference, to me, both in years and dollars.

 

As you go on to point out, this is balanced (probably more than balanced) by the need to give up significant talent to acquire the less expensive option.  But IMO it's a closer decision than you painted it.

My main beef with saying we should go after Lester is it just seems like those top flight guys get so many offers they go where they want.  If you trade for a guy well then you've got him.  I also think sometimes we value the prospects too highly.  I guess it would depend on the price overall but I would have zero problem giving up one of berrios/meyer as a centerpiece in a deal for Hamels.

 

So while I agree that it's not the exact right time, it's not like guys like Hamels with 4 years of control are on the trade block all the time.  

 

Even though yes, maybe money wise Meyer/Berrios would be worth more to the Twins long term, they may both be busts, we don't know.  At some point the Twins may be smart to make a deal for an established #1 pitcher.  I would be very happy if they went after Hamels.  

Not really.  Age, yes.  (Born within days of each other.)  But Lester is signed for 6 guaranteed years, $155M.  Hamels is 4 more years, $94M.  Each has an optional year at the end, that the respective team controls by giving up a few million extra (Hamels' is $6M, I don't know Lester's).  One can cut ties with Hamel after age 34, Lester will be around until 36.  Pretty big difference, to me, both in years and dollars.

 

As you go on to point out, this is balanced (probably more than balanced) by the need to give up significant talent to acquire the less expensive option.  But IMO it's a closer decision than you painted it.

Fair enough. For some reason, I thought Hamels had five years left on his deal... Must have counted the option year.

What would it have taken to get Lester to come to Minnesota.  I don't think you can use his cubs contract to compare to Hamels. It would have been much more $$$$$ to get him to come to Minnesota.

What would it have taken to get Lester to come to Minnesota.  I don't think you can use his cubs contract to compare to Hamels. It would have been much more $$$$$ to get him to come to Minnesota.

I doubt that. The Twins and Cubs aren't in terribly different positions. Bad records, a few good young players, stacked farm systems. Unless Lester has some attachment to Epstein (unlikely), he'd probably go where the money took him.

Unless Lester has some attachment to Epstein (unlikely), he'd probably go where the money took him.

 

Lester might not have an especial attachment to Epstein, but he probably wants to play with Joe Maddon. Who wouldn't? He seems like a jolly sort of generous chap:

 

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d5/8b/4c/d58b4cd177072e9871d9a91816f09b31.jpg

Edited December 13, 201411 yr by always33

I am in the camp that wants to add Bourjos.  He would immediately be the best defensive player the Twins have at any position and it is a key one. It would address the biggest weakness the Twins have on the position player side--outfield defense--and would not cost much more than a second tier prospect.   That move would also put Aaron Hicks in a position where he has to earn a promotion back to the big leagues.

I wouldn't have guessed it, but Cole Hamels has over 200 more IP on his arm than Lester does.  That's what I prefer to consider over age for what it's worth.

I wouldn't have guessed it, but Cole Hamels has over 200 more IP on his arm than Lester does. That's what I prefer to consider over age for what it's worth.

It should be noted. For sure. Look at CC Sabathia.

I'd like to see them sign Anderson on a 3 year & Bourjos on a 1-2 year.

 

I'd move Milone/Duensing/Pelfrey to clear space & fill the bullpen with Burdi, Meyer, Tonkin.

I'd like to see them sign Anderson on a 3 year & Bourjos on a 1-2 year.

FWIW, Bourjos is not a free agent.  We'd have to trade to get him.  Does that change your view on him?  The Cardinals aren't giving him away and could find other takers.  Suppose the firm asking price was (I don't know) Kepler or Thorpe plus a lesser prospect, would you do it?

I would say that Bourjos is a better CF than Presley.  Also when you are throwing out an outfield with Torii Hunter and Oswaldo Arcia and not to mention the powerful Vargas DH'ing.....give me a defense first CF and hit him 9 in the lineup.

 

I agree with pursuing Bourjos.  He probably wouldn't cost that much in a trade. With Torii and Oswaldo Arcia in the corner OF spots we definitely need some late game defensive options, Hicks and Shafer are also flexible enough to play the corners with Bourjos in CF.

Nope.  Sign Rasmus for one year and save the prospects.

 

 

Everyone knows you can't have just one.

If I were to take a long shot bet on anyone, it would be Johan.  I hate seeing a good guy like him bowing out of the game due to injuries....

Maybe these free spending Twins offer the Rockies Arcia/Santana & a pitcher for Tulo & Cargo. Who says no, right? Lol

Edited December 15, 201411 yr by Trevor0333

I didn't realize Bourjos wasn't a FA as much as he's been talked about.

I doubt that. The Twins and Cubs aren't in terribly different positions. Bad records, a few good young players, stacked farm systems. Unless Lester has some attachment to Epstein (unlikely), he'd probably go where the money took him.

Actually, in this case, he did have an attachment to Epstein and Hoyer.  Lester apparently turned down a contract from San Francisco that was worth more money to go back to those guys.  He felt they were responsible for his two world series rings.  

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-a-camo-hat-was-key-to-the-cubs-landing-jon-lester-151316403.html

 

I remember reading about the offer from SF.  It was over $160M, but not much.  It probably would have taken the same years at $170 or so to get him to the Twins, or an extra year at the higher level.   

Actually, in this case, he did have an attachment to Epstein and Hoyer.  Lester apparently turned down a contract from San Francisco that was worth more money to go back to those guys.  He felt they were responsible for his two world series rings.  

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-a-camo-hat-was-key-to-the-cubs-landing-jon-lester-151316403.html

 

I remember reading about the offer from SF.  It was over $160M, but not much.  It probably would have taken the same years at $170 or so to get him to the Twins, or an extra year at the higher level.   

Interesting. In that case, looks like nobody had a shot once the Cubs got involved.

 

Not many players take less money to go to a team that isn't their current team, a former team, or their hometown.

Interesting. In that case, looks like nobody had a shot once the Cubs got involved.

 

Not many players take less money to go to a team that isn't their current team, a former team, or their hometown.

 

Yeah, but sometimes it works against Chicago teams also.  A little reasearch will show that Hunter came to the Twins at a reduced price considering what the White Sox were willing to give him.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/11/white-sox-to-1.html

 

Come on people grow up, sometimes we get a break too!

Yeah, but sometimes it works against Chicago teams also.  A little reasearch will show that Hunter came to the Twins at a reduced price considering what the White Sox were willing to give him.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/11/white-sox-to-1.html

 

Come on people grow up, sometimes we get a break too!

Hmmm... Are you mistaken here or playing some sort of clever joke? 

 

Also, the joke doesn't totally work because Brock mentioned that players sometimes take less money to go to a former team.  Sorry.  

 

I'm betting some other team could have gotten Lester, but they probably would have had to give an egregious amount of money to do it.

I saw a news nugget today that said the Rays and Padres are talking about a Wil Myers deal. SD has also been linked to Justin Upton, so clearly they're looking to add more pop in the outfield to go along with Kemp. Maybe see if they're interested in Arcia? Both him and Myers have two years in the big leagues now and Arcia has arguably been the better player (hitting, at least). Does that team have anyone worth a damn to trade for? They might be willing to part with Kennedy but Cashner and Ross are probably off limits (and those are the two I would want).

Hmmm... Are you mistaken here or playing some sort of clever joke? 

 

Also, the joke doesn't totally work because Brock mentioned that players sometimes take less money to go to a former team.  Sorry.  

 

I'm betting some other team could have gotten Lester, but they probably would have had to give an egregious amount of money to do it.

Nice Crash Test Dummies reference! Hard to know exactly what goes on in negotiations.

Apparently the Twins are not interested in Rasmus. This means Danny Santana will be in center field by June 1.

Jim Duquette (former GM) was talking on the MLB network about the misperception some fans have about being able to over pay to get free agents.  The short version of what he said is that the better free agents have several options but in most cases a strong preference or two.  The agents works the offer up to the breaking point and then the players picks between a team or two that they wanted to go with all along.  

Apparently the Twins are not interested in Rasmus. This means Danny Santana will be in center field by June 1.

I think that the Torii Hunter signing was the biggest deal they were going to give to a position player. If they "missed out on" Torii, I think Rasmus would have been more interesting to the Twins. 

 

Wouldn't have been my preference to choose Hunter over Rasmus for the Twins, but I don't get to pick...

I'd try to get Cameron Maybin as a buy low type

offer a catcher, San Diego Loooooves catchers!

I'd try to get Cameron Maybin as a buy low type

Or Will Venable.  I wouldn't consider either as a buy low in hopes of upside but rather both of them as salary dumps by the Padres that could be a decent stopgap.  Venable is only on a one year deal so I prefer him tbh.