Article: Joe Maddon is Out in Tampa. Could Twins Get Him?

[glunn]

I would hope that at the very least TR will have a face to face meeting with Maddon.  It seems to me that Maddon's insights about the Twins could be valuable to TR.

 

I also think that $5-7 million per year would be a good business decision, considering the morale boost for the fans and the players, plus making the Twins more attractive to free agents.  The Twins could also offer Maddon an option to move up to the GM spot when TR retires, which is something that the Cubs cannot offer.  Maybe the combined deal (manager then general manager) could be 6 or 7 years, which might also give an edge against the Cubs?

 

It's painful to watch games and even more painful to go to the ballpark when the team is losing 90+ games per year.  We fans need more reason to hope for better days.  The Twins could spend big on free agents this offseason and we can argue about that until April, but Maddon seems to me to be far closer to a sure thing than any free agent, and it would be a business mistake not to make a serious bid for his services.

[GoGonzoJournal]

Maddon opting out and the Twins' vacant managerial position is no coincidence. I think Maddon wants this job, and he knows Terry Ryan has the money to pay him. Maddon cited "financial reasons" for testing free agency, and no one has more money to spend than Terry Ryan. Whatever Maddon demands, the Twins can match. Frankly, I don't think Maddon opts out if the Twins fill their managerial position by now. I truly think this has everything to do with money. Maddon wants to be the highest paid manager in the game, and deserves to be. He's done more with less better than anyone, including Gardy.

 

Maddon would have what he had in Tampa – a young, talented pitching staff, a young, hard-hitting third baseman like Evan Longoria, an effective infield defense, and quite possibly a superstar in Byron Buxton. It's too good to be true, but Terry Ryan has an obligation to make it true. I'd give Maddon $7 million per year before paying a starter $20 million per year. He's the best free agent on the market.

[Senior Softball Guy]

There are three "buy low" manergerial jobs in the MLB right now. Loaded with top prospects and very low expectations.  Teams where even a mediocre manager is going to look like a genious when they go from bottom feeders to contenders. The Cubs, the Astros, and our Twins. Unless Jim Pohlad jumps in over the top in discussions with a lot of cash, Terry will probably pass. But Joe is smart enough to read the tea leaves to see a good opportunity. Wrigley like Coors is a tough place to win, but they'll build a statue of you if you do!

[Craig Arko]

In a lot of ways the managing skills and general high level of respect for Joe Maddon reminds me of another long-time professional: the late Gene Mauch.

 

Just remember Mauch wasn't able to work miracles for the Twins. It still comes down to who you can put on the field.

[nicksaviking]

The Twins surely aren't the favorites, but is Maddon to MN really that much more outrageous than Francona to Cleveland.

[chopper0080]

First, I don't believe the Twins will do what it takes to get him.  Having to pay large money to someone outside the organization, especially someone who is unconventional, is not really the Twins MO.  I'm sure the Twins will inquire about him, but I don't see them doing what some other teams will to get him in.

 

Second, managers in baseball are overrated.  They don't have systems which their front office acquires players for, and they don't really have too many schemes which create a competitive advantage.  That being said, Maddon is good with younger players which is what I like the most about him in this spot.  That is the main reason I would pursue him if I was the Twins.

[sploorp]

This all came about so suddenly.  Even Maddon claims he was unaware of the clause and seems genuinely unsure of his plans going forward.  I can't help but feel that he's opting out only because he can and only has a small window of opportunity to do so.

 

At 60, I could really picture himself comfortable where he and not eager to pull up stakes and start over someplace else.

 

Anyhow, the long story short is I wouldn't rule out Tampa Bay as the team most likely to sign him.  He could be just looking for a longer contract and a pay raise and isn't really serious about other teams.

[one_eyed_jack]

I'd be surprised if Maddon ended up here, but I wouldn't rule it out.

 

A lot of folks said Rick Adelman, who I think you can look at as sort of the NBA version of Maddon, would never take the T-Wolves job.  The T-Wolves were coming off a string of horrific seasons, and there were other jobs in bigger markets available.  But Rick came here.  (Of course his tenure was pretty disappointing....)

 

And yeah, Maddon would cost more than other managers, but he'd also generate buzz and interest that other candidates wouldn't. 

[EephusKnuckler]

Anyhow, the long story short is I wouldn't rule out Tampa Bay as the team most likely to sign him.  He could be just looking for a longer contract and a pay raise and isn't really serious about other teams.

 

But aren't we past that point? I think the Rays already had their shot at retaining him but he declined and decided to opt out. If the reports can be believed, possibly a quarter of the league (or more) is interested in his services. He's gonna get paid. I guess I can't completely rule it out but returning to the Rays seems unlikely now, and I really doubt he'd say he's willing to sit out the season if he truly wanted to stay with the Rays.

 

I wonder if the Astros, Diamondbacks, and Rangers are kicking themselves right now? The Twins are in a very fortuitous position with this. They should look at it like mana raining down from heaven because Maddon as the manager of the Twins makes a helluva lot of sense. They're an organization that wants to operate with a low payroll; Maddon has done that for many years and had success. *check* Pitching has been a major weakness but we have a lot of young arms in the system; Maddon's teams have consistently had solid pitching and did so with a lot of young guys. *check* It's Minnesota so we want a guy with a likeable personality; from what I've gathered, Maddon is a great guy and is well respected around the league. *check*

 

I imagine there's a mutual admiration between TR and Maddon for how they both approach the game. Seems like everything lines up perfectly with him. Makes a lot of sense. Hopefully his contract demands aren't a dealbreaker for the Twins, which would be a shame because paying a manager $5+ million a year is peanuts in the world of MLB.

Edited October 27, 2014 by EephusKnuckler

[Zachary]

Would love to see him hired here but he doesn't seem to fit the Twins mold:

 

-Too expensive

-Too outside the box 

-Too big of a name 

-Not home grown

 

Hope I'm wrong though

 

The Twins current "mold" is something you are okay with? Maybe that sort of change could be a good thing. 

[tobi0040]

First, I don't believe the Twins will do what it takes to get him.  Having to pay large money to someone outside the organization, especially someone who is unconventional, is not really the Twins MO.  I'm sure the Twins will inquire about him, but I don't see them doing what some other teams will to get him in.

 

Second, managers in baseball are overrated.  They don't have systems which their front office acquires players for, and they don't really have too many schemes which create a competitive advantage.  That being said, Maddon is good with younger players which is what I like the most about him in this spot.  That is the main reason I would pursue him if I was the Twins.

 

I can't argue with you.  i think this managerial search has been a charade all along.  The job is going to Molitor and Terry needed to act like he was open to outsiders to pacify everyone.  I for one think Terry's initial reaction was anger when he found out Maddon was available.  Now he has to act interested in him as well.  He is now conducting "due dilligence" on him....to determine what exacty?  That he is the best candidate available?

[Brock Beauchamp]

I can't argue with you.  i think this managerial search has been a charade all along.  The job is going to Molitor and Terry needed to act like he was open to outsiders to pacify everyone.  I for one think Terry's initial reaction was anger when he found out Maddon was available.  Now he has to act interested in him as well.  He is now conducting "due dilligence" on him....to determine what exacty?  That he is the best candidate available?

There is a lot of conjecture in your opinion and more than a healthy dose of skepticism.

 

What did you expect Ryan to say within a couple of hours of Maddon's opt-out? Terry doesn't know if Joe even wants the Twins job. Openly stating that he wants to hire him burns all sorts of bridges with the current candidates and would be terribly irresponsible. "Doing due diligence" is nothing more than PR-speak, which is exactly what Ryan should have been doing at that point. There is no upside to coming out with a pro-Maddon stance and a lot of downside if Joe isn't interested in the job or if his terms are unreasonable (which is entirely a matter of opinion, I think Maddon is worth a boatload of money).

[tobi0040]

There is a lot of conjecture in your opinion and more than a healthy dose of skepticism.

 

What did you expect Ryan to say within a couple of hours of Maddon's opt-out? Terry doesn't know if Joe even wants the Twins job. Openly stating that he wants to hire him burns all sorts of bridges with the current candidates and would be terribly irresponsible. "Doing due diligence" is nothing more than PR-speak, which is exactly what Ryan should have been doing at that point. There is no upside to coming out with a pro-Maddon stance and a lot of downside if Joe isn't interested in the job or if his terms are unreasonable (which is entirely a matter of opinion, I think Maddon is worth a boatload of money).

 

Some truth here, but I am guessing Terry knows what the budget is for a manager and Maddon is clearly going to be in the $5M range.  So I think Terry knew from the second he heard that this signing was not going to happen.  Just my personal opinion. 

 

If it comes out that we did not even reach out for an interview....can we speculate that the Twins were not going to meet his salary demands?  It seems really unlikely that we called around and ruled him out based on his reputation.

Edited October 27, 2014 by tobi0040

[jay]

If it comes out that we did not even reach out for an interview....can we speculate that the Twins were not going to meet his salary demands?  It seems really unlikely that we called around and ruled him out based on his reputation.

 

That speculation is going to happen no matter what the Twins say or do.  It'll happen even if the Twins do interview him, even though you've already highlighted why an interview isn't even really necessary.  Heck, it'll happen even if TR says he offered him the job (...didn't offer him enough).  I don't see a single real-world scenario other than hiring Joe Maddon that manages to avoid some people saying it was about the money. 

[tobi0040]

That speculation is going to happen no matter what the Twins say or do.  It'll happen even if the Twins do interview him, even though you've already highlighted why an interview isn't even really necessary.  Heck, it'll happen even if TR says he offered him the job (...didn't offer him enough).  I don't see a single real-world scenario other than hiring Joe Maddon that manages to avoid some people saying it was about the money. 

 

I agree, short of hiring him some are going to say it was a charade.  Myself included.  

 

But we literally have no reason to not request an interview.  And I think if we request an interview and he has no interest, Dave St. Peter or Terry will let us all know. 

 

We should at least be able to separate out we were never going to hire him from I think we were never going to hire him.

[stringer bell]

While I agree that checking on Maddon is the proper thing to do, I don't think it will make as much difference to the team whether he is hired or not. 

 

Inside the industry and amongst the die-hard fans, Maddon has a reputation (a very good one), but I think any manager candidate that the Twins have interviewed has a good reputation and some good ideas.  As far as firing up the fan base, the part of the base that is still caring about the Twins (basically Twins Daily regulars) is going to be excited, but Maddon is not a big enough name to interest casual fans.

[chopper0080]

So, my final thoughts on Maddon not coming to Minnesota.

 

1-We are the only team with a managerial opening right now.

 

2-Our GM said he would hire the best guy for the job.

 

3-Maddon has more wins as a manager than all of the other serious candidates combined.

 

 

At some point you either get things done or you don't.  Sean Connery had a great quote in a movie about doing your best.  This is just another time where the Twins will come up short in their pursuit of something, and will redirect the blame somewhere else.  This mentality permeates through the organization.  It is ok to consistently fail because of X, Y, and Z.  Before we couldnt' compete because of big market teams.  Now we can't compete because we are rebuilding.  The problem can't be with us, it must be with something else.

 

ridiculous

[tobi0040]

So, my final thoughts on Maddon not coming to Minnesota.

 

1-We are the only team with a managerial opening right now.

 

2-Our GM said he would hire the best guy for the job.

 

3-Maddon has more wins as a manager than all of the other serious candidates combined.

 

 

At some point you either get things done or you don't.  Sean Connery had a great quote in a movie about doing your best.  This is just another time where the Twins will come up short in their pursuit of something, and will redirect the blame somewhere else.  This mentality permeates through the organization.  It is ok to consistently fail because of X, Y, and Z.  Before we couldnt' compete because of big market teams.  Now we can't compete because we are rebuilding.  The problem can't be with us, it must be with something else.

 

ridiculous

 

I agree. Sometimes things get over complicated. We have a manager spot open.  He is the best available manager, nobody is debating this.  $5M is not going to break the bank, block other moves, and he isn't going to be miss time with tommy john. 

 

Sign the guy.

Edited October 27, 2014 by tobi0040

[jay]

I might have to take back what I said earlier about so many people recognizing that he has a choice.

 

I wish I could be more of a skeptical pessimist. Simple odds say I could blast the Twins for every guy they aren't going to get and be right most of the time.

[tobi0040]

I might have to take back what I said earlier about so many people recognizing that he has a choice.

 

I wish I could be more of a skeptical pessimist. Simple odds say I could blast the Twins for every guy they aren't going to get and be right most of the time.

 

Most gave the Twins a pass on Garza last off-season, because we had a verifiable offer out there that was in the ballpark (more annually) then he signed for. 

 

If we had a five million dollar offer out there and he signed with the Cubs, most reasonable people would give the Twins a pass there too.  Luvollo had a second interview recently and according to La Velle, Pohlad has met with multiple guys and an announcement could come as early as Wednesday.   So to me we aren't trying to get Madden, who still not a single person has said is not the best candidate available.  I don't think this can be dismissed that easily as a number game.

[jay]

If we had a five million dollar offer out there and he signed with the Cubs, most reasonable people would give the Twins a pass there too.

Do you think the Twins wouldn't give him $5M if he wanted the job?

 

I think they would. I also think he'll end up getting more than that.

[tobi0040]

Do you think the Twins wouldn't give him $5M if he wanted the job?

I think they would. I also think he'll end up getting more than that.

No. I don't.

 

I also think that he is not getting an interview and as the only team with an opening he has every incentive to appear interested in our position and interview for it, even if he doesn't want it. Every other team has to fire their coach and take a leap of faith that madden signs there. He needs our job for leverage or at least it would help his cause

 

We will know shortly if we reached out and invited him in. As far as salary, maybe. Likely not more than 6.

Edited October 28, 2014 by tobi0040

[Kwak]

I think the Twins made teir decision before Maddon exercised his opt-out clause.  The delay is for courtesy of not stepping on the WS. 

[jay]

If they wouldn't give him $5M, I'm not so sure an interview under the false pretenses of either side pretending to be interested is a good idea.

[EephusKnuckler]

I think the Twins made teir decision before Maddon exercised his opt-out clause.  The delay is for courtesy of not stepping on the WS. 

 

I thought that right away too but there are still reports trickling out about second interviews. Could've sworn I saw something today that said Lovullo recently had his second visit. If that's the case, then there's absolutely no excuse for not sitting down with Maddon.

 

Imagine the tremendous gnashing of teeth if the team surprised everyone by going with Lovullo and thereby revealed that they were truly open to an outside candidate all along.

[SweetOne69]

Every other team has to fire their coach and take a leap of faith that madden signs there. He needs our job for leverage or at least it would help his cause

 

I believe other teams could interview Maddon without firing their current manager.  They don't have to fire their current manager until Maddon accepts the job.

[tobi0040]

I believe other teams could interview Maddon without firing their current manager.  They don't have to fire their current manager until Maddon accepts the job.

 

Right, but the reality is it will leak out that Maddon is getting interviewed by team X, who would have a manager under contract.  I don't think that will happen.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Do you think the Twins wouldn't give him $5M if he wanted the job?

 

I think they would. I also think he'll end up getting more than that.

"We can't even give our money away", manager edition.

 

As I've stated, I'd love to see them be aggressive with Maddon even if he doesn't really want to come here and/or the Twins ultimately don't want to pay his price (and I wouldn't blame them if we somehow had to significantly top $5 million annually).

 

The message that a Maddon interview and token offer would send to the other prospective managers ("this is the kind of manager and culture we want to establish here") would be good (not to mention a good message to the fans too).

[tobi0040]

"We can't even give our money away", manager edition.

 

As I've stated, I'd love to see them be aggressive with Maddon even if he doesn't really want to come here and/or the Twins ultimately don't want to pay his price (and I wouldn't blame them if we somehow had to significantly top $5 million annually).

 

The message that a Maddon interview and token offer would send to the other prospective managers ("this is the kind of manager and culture we want to establish here") would be good (not to mention a good message to the fans too).

 

The only reports out of the Madden camp are that he is looking for a "big challenge" and would sit out this year unless a good opportunity comes along.  Frankly, no way  he does not accept an interview from the Twins right now.  If anything it sounds like he is trying to goat us into an interview to boost his value.

 

Meanwhile no indication we have reached out to his camp, interviewed him or anything.  Luvollo is in line for his second interview and "Jim Pohlad is getting involved".  Sounds like a fat no.

[Willihammer]

I mean, Madden's a Hall of Fame coach. What more is there to say. The guy had a 20 year series of video games made after him.

 

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081022035028/egamia/images/0/0d/Madden90SNES.jpg