Article: Kurt Suzuki Signs Extension With Twins

[Shane Wahl]

Who has actually given up on Pinto as a catcher?

 

When Suzuki reverts back to his career numbers, this is going to look like a Kevin Correia kind of contract.

[Monkeypaws]

Who has actually given up on Pinto as a catcher?

 

When Suzuki reverts back to his career numbers, this is going to look like a Kevin Correia kind of contract.

I wish I could be as certain about the future as you sir.

[TheLeviathan]

I think by the deadline next year we're hoping just to dump Suzuki for a bag of balls.  But the guy is necessary for the Twins at this point until Pinto is ready to assume the role.  It's clear the Twins don't see him as ready and that's all that really matters.

[Monkeypaws]

I am surprised at the condescension in this thread; Terry Ryan probably isn't an idiot about baseball, and the offers he got probably weren't good. I'm just guessing though.

 

Having some depth at catcher is a good thing, especially at an affordable price, and now the Twins have that with Pinto and Suzuki, while other guys develop in the minors.

 

Constant rebuild is fun, but why not keep good players once in a while too?

[Badsmerf]

How can all of you complain about this move? It isn't for a ton of money and it is 2 years with an option for a third. Who is going to complain about 6 mil a year for acceptable production from C? Someone actually tried to say that 6 million was taking up over 10% of the payroll.... are you kidding me? Know who is getting paid too much for bad production? Joe Mauer. Every team has a bad contract.

 

The Twins weren't trading AJ here, Suzuki is a known commodity. I was hoping for a deal like this or a top 100 prospect. I thought this forum was better than this.

Edited August 1, 2014 by ChiTownTwinsFan

[tobi0040]

Who has actually given up on Pinto as a catcher?

 

When Suzuki reverts back to his career numbers, this is going to look like a Kevithe n Correia kind of contract.

The twins. The guy is getting dh reps in aaa. Shows me they aren't convinced. someone else said pintos defense is overblown. I agree. But the reality to me is that the twins have as much faith in pinto at catcher as they did in plouffe as a short stop. So given that, what plan b is better than 2-12 for suzuki?

[tobi0040]

How can all of you complain about this move? It isn't for a ton of money and it is 2 years with an option for a third. Who is going to complain about 6 mil a year for acceptable production from C? This complaining is beyond ignorant. Someone actually tried to say that 6 million was taking up over 10% of the payroll.... are you ****ing kidding me? Know who is getting paid too much for bad production? Joe Mauer. Every team has a bad contract.

 

The Twins weren't trading AJ here, Suzuki is a known commodity. I was hoping for a deal like this or a top 100 prospect. I thought this forum was better than this.

I would like to echo this. I think in order to rip on plan a you need to present a better plan b. Outside of saying pinto, nobody has done so and right or wrong the twins don't believe in pinto. Maybe he does nothing to calm a pitcher down or knows nothing about pitch calling. All I know is the twins have day to day experience and their reports must not be good.

[stringer bell]

Souhan has a comment on the trade taking a diametrically opposite view to me about Pinto. I hope he's wrong and I'm right. I just don't see Suzuki sustaining what he is doing offensively.

[TKGuy]

At 485 PA's, he would still have to be hitting .300 to possible get this. Maybe they'll move Fryer down and bring Pinto up for possible DH also. Hicks has to get another look also.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

How can all of you complain about this move?

 

 

I would like to echo this.

This sounds eerily similar to the discussions we had on Morales in June: "How can anybody be against this move?"

 

Well, no one is really against it per se, it just seems like the Twins are willingly going in circles with this "veteran leadership" talking point. "Stability in the clubhouse" and all that stuff. Isn't Gardenhire providing the stabity of the clubhouse?!

 

Pinto has been in the system for 8+ years, all at catcher, doing the right thing at every level, presumably he's catching for Meyer and May at Rochester, and he barely gets a look here in the majors. Seems like an odd investment.

[jtkoupal]

I like this move from a defensive perspective. However, it is imminent that Kurt will sink to his normal self, if not this year than certainly next year. It is extremely rare for a 30 year old to suddenly learn discipline and break out and then sustain it for several years. His is certain to disappoint anyone expecting him to continue this level of offensive success.

 

Another thing that I don't like is that this move displays that the Twins have given up on Josmik Pinto. I understand that Josmil's defensive skills don't exist, but his offense is going to keep him in the bigs. Sure you can DH him and catch him in a reserve role, but then where does Vargas play? 1st? Then where does Mauer play? Outfield? The fact of the matter is that we need Pinto's bat in the lineup one way or another, and this puts his bat on the bench more than it should. But of course, don't forget that Gardy has a phobia of having to give the pitcher 1 at bat throughout the year, so Pinto would only DH if a 3rd catcher is on the roster. I swear Gardy is so far in the Dark Ages...

 

On the positive side, I like this move from a defensive standpoint. Suzuki is the best catcher that is ready for the Major Leagues. He will do an excellent job handling the pitching staff that is almost certain to include youngsters such as Meyer and May and somewhat-youngsters like Tommy Milone.

 

All-in-all, I'm content with this deal, though I'd prefer to see Pinto in the lineup on a regular basis.

[tobi0040]

This sounds eerily similar to the discussions we had on Morales in June: "How can anybody be against this move?"

 

Well, no one is really against it per se, it just seems like the Twins are willingly going in circles with this "veteran leadership" talking point. "Stability in the clubhouse" and all that stuff. Isn't Gardenhire providing the stabity of the clubhouse?!

 

Pinto has been in the system for 8+ years, all at catcher, doing the right thing at every level, presumably he's catching for Meyer and May at Rochester, and he barely gets a look here in the majors. Seems like an odd investment.

 

I get the case you are making and I can't disagree per se.  Here are my two cents to you and many of the cases made on this thread.  In the context of a team that does not believe in Pinto, I think Kurt on 2-12 is the best alternative to plan b next year (FA catcher or Fryer/Herman).  And I also get that it is not good business sense to extend a guy on a high note, but I don't think $6M a year for two years and making him earn a 3rd by missing very few games really reflects a catcher that hits .300+.  If Suzuki hit .300 for 3 years in a row and hit the FA market he would have received a 3-4 year deal at 8+ million a year.  So while the timing of the signing is at a high point, I think the numbers reflect a guy that may exceed his career numbers but nowhere near where he is playing today.

 

To your point about the Twins always going for veterans and leadership, you are preaching to the choir.  If it were up to me this year would have seen Pinto catch 40% of the games and the only reason I would not support that is if he was a complete and utter embarrassment to the fans paying to watch.  Nothing I have seen indicates that.  The long term answer IMO is a new manager and until that happens, I have been forced to analyze these moves in the context of Gardy ruling the roost and in this case, Pinto not being an option.....

[Mike Sixel]

I am surprised at the condescension in this thread; Terry Ryan probably isn't an idiot about baseball, and the offers he got probably weren't good. I'm just guessing though.

 

Having some depth at catcher is a good thing, especially at an affordable price, and now the Twins have that with Pinto and Suzuki, while other guys develop in the minors.

 

Constant rebuild is fun, but why not keep good players once in a while too?

 

No one is calling anyone names, I don't see any condescension at all. People disagree with the move, and most are supplying their logical reasons for disagreeing. That doesn't mean that side is right, but it doesn't mean they are being mean or something.

 

Some of us don't think he'll be a good player in the future, and would like to see the future, since almost none of it has debuted in this rebuild. I know I'm on that side. I'd like Pinto up here, learning and hitting here, like Brian Harper did.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I get the case you are making and I can't disagree per se.  Here are my two cents to you and many of the cases made on this thread.  In the context of a team that does not believe in Pinto, I think Kurt on 2-12 is the best alternative to plan b next year (FA catcher or Fryer/Herman).  And I also get that it is not good business sense to extend a guy on a high note, but I don't think $6M a year for two years and making him earn a 3rd by missing very few games really reflects a catcher that hits .300+.  If Suzuki hit .300 for 3 years in a row and hit the FA market he would have received a 3-4 year deal at 8+ million a year.  So while the timing of the signing is at a high point, I think the numbers reflect a guy that may exceed his career numbers but nowhere near where he is playing today.

 

To your point about the Twins always going for veterans and leadership, you are preaching to the choir.  If it were up to me this year would have seen Pinto catch 40% of the games and the only reason I would not support that is if he was a complete and utter embarrassment to the fans paying to watch.  Nothing I have seen indicates that.  The long term answer IMO is a new manager and until that happens, I have been forced to analyze these moves in the context of Gardy ruling the roost and in this case, Pinto not being an option.....

And I agree with most of this.

 

To be fair, the Twins are actually playing some young guys regularly. Plouffe played regularly and poorly for a long time. Then I wonder how Doumit got 100+ starts last year, and maybe if Pinto gets more of those, he is better off for it in 2014. So many good catchers have already earned full time gigs by the age of 25 which is Pinto's age. People talk about Mitch Garver. Garver is 23 and hits like Pinto but is still at A, so maybe they don't think much of Garver catching skills either?

[Badsmerf]

I think the reason Pinto was sent down is to put less pressure on him while improving. I have no issues with call-ups and demotions. I have issues with leaving guys in AAA for extended periods of time when its clear they need to be tested. 

 

That said, now that Pinto is healthy again he needs to be up again. Ryan dropped the ball dumping contracts so there is still limited roster space. Pinto is included among a bunch of players that need MLB time this season. 

[kab21]

Suzuki has a career .692 OPS.  If he regresses to .675 OPS then he's worth this contract.  The Twins certainly aren't paying for career year production.  If they were paying based on that he would be getting 10-15/yr easily for his current production.

 

I think some are also putting a little too much weight in catching defensive stats and how much they are worth overall.  These stats are interesting but these are still very new and they don't have a proven track record.  Nor do they measure all of things that catchers do.

[spanman2]

Happy Friday all:  I think it was a predictable signing.  He seems to be a well liked guy in the club house (we are told chemistry is important by most players) and well respected by the pitching staff.  You would think the guys coming up (let us hope they get here before they retire) would be receptive to Kurt as their catcher.  My hope is that if  Pinto is in the cards for the future as our catcher that Kurt would mentor him along the way.  Especially now that he has 12 mill in the bank guaranteed!!!  Pinto should be the back up catcher next season along with some DHing duties.  A 75/25 or 80/20 so split with Pinto would be ideal in my mind for catching duties. 

 

Kurt is what he is.  A career .260ish or so give or take a few pts. hitter who is durable and knows his role on a club.  I believe sometimes we get too caught up in the "numbers".  Numbers are important but there are other non-number intangibles that are also important.   I don't think 6/yr is too steep of a price to pay for what you get in return for him given the $$$ that is being handed out these days.  If he hits .260-.280 or so the next two years draws some walks and develops the kids coming up its a good deal for the Twins.

[DaveW]

Who has actually given up on Pinto as a catcher?

 

When Suzuki reverts back to his career numbers, this is going to look like a Kevin Correia kind of contract.

The Kevin Correia contract is far from a "bad one" in fact many like myself would argue that he has actually earned that money.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The Kevin Correia contract is far from a "bad one" in fact many like myself would argue that he has actually earned that money.

 

It's pretty hard to argue that he hasn't. He has posted a total of 1.8 WAR for roughly $9m at this point.

 

Kevin Correia and his contract isn't a problem. The problem is all the guys they didn't sign to pitch in front of Kevin Correia.

[Mike Sixel]

If Pinto needs to work on his D, why is he DHing so much in AAA?

[Brock Beauchamp]

If Pinto needs to work on his D, why is he DHing so much in AAA?

 

One of the more irritating aspects of this season. Let the guy catch, for crying out loud.

[JB_Iowa]

I was pretty ambivalent about signing Suzuki and still am ... I don't think its horrible but I did want to see what he might bring back in a trade and I do think his presence will probably impede Pinto (although I have no idea if Pinto can be successful).

 

I am bothered by this quote from Rob Antony in Berardino's story:

 

“We had some calls about him. There was some interest,” Antony said. “We were telling people we might get something done. We were trying to get something done. That was the No. 1 priority when it came to Suzuki was we wanted to keep him rather than trade him.

 

“We would rather keep the known commodity and what we know about and are comfortable with.”

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2014/07/31/twinsights-twins-sign-kurt-suzuki-to-two-year-contract-extension/

 

It just seems to me that the Twins worry far too much about their "comfort level" especially when you are trying to rebuild a team and should be taking some risks.  It also seems like they were sending out signals to other teams not to try too hard when it came to a trade.

Edited August 1, 2014 by JB_Iowa

[Mike Sixel]

Oh man. That quote is depressing.

[teekz]

One of the more irritating aspects of this season. Let the guy catch, for crying out loud.

Would you rather have May and Meyer throw to someone who can call a game or someone who has no plan on getting a hitter out?

[kab21]

Would you rather have May and Meyer throw to someone who can call a game or someone who has no plan on getting a hitter out?

If Pinto's catching is that bad then he's no more a catcher than Doumit was.  I posted this before but Doumit and Pinto have eerily similar MiLB stats.

[Mike Sixel]

Pinto has been a catcher for years. He is not clueless. That just is not fair.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Kevin Correia and his contract isn't a problem. The problem is all the guys they didn't sign to pitch in front of Kevin Correia.

Yup.  The problem could also be considered the total package of guys they signed/acquired (or simply relied on) -- any one of Correia, Pelfrey, Worley, or Diamond would certainly have been worthy of a MLB rotation spot to open 2013.  But putting them all in the SAME rotation was not a good idea.

[teekz]

If Pinto's catching is that bad then he's no more a catcher than Doumit was. I posted this before but Doumit and Pinto have eerily similar MiLB stats.

I thought Doumit was never considered a good catcher also. Wasn't he ragged on for bad catching skills?

Edited August 1, 2014 by teekz

[kab21]

I thought Doumit was never considered a good catcher also. Wasn't he ragged on for bad catching skills?

 

Basically my point.  Rightly or wrongly it appears the team doesn't like Pinto as a catcher unless he has some minor injury that is affected when he's behind the plate.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I get that in a vacuum, the Suzuki extension isn't that bad.  Pinto's far from a sure thing even if we did trust him more, there aren't necessarily better FA options coming up, 2/12 is pretty small in modern MLB, etc.

 

But considered in totality with our other moves, it's just not that encouraging that things are going to change much ahead of TR's likely 5+ year rebuild timeline.  Just like Correia, Pelfrey, Doumit... even Nolasco, once it became apparent the Twins hadn't struck some sort of FIP goldmine with him.

 

I guess this is the reality of following a team with our recent record, particularly one that has a history of relying on the draft almost exclusively for its potential impact players.  But the Suzuki extension feels like another reminder of that depressing fact.