Unwritten Rules are Not Smart

[TheLeviathan]

I did stop....then Colby Lewis brought the horse back from the dead and injected it with a dose of Super Stupidity.

[gil4]

I did stop....then Colby Lewis brought the horse back from the dead and injected it with a dose of Super Stupidity.

 

It could have been worse. I was going to start a new thread with the story, but I checked here first to see if it was covered. Unwritten rule number 1 needs to be "when you play the shift, anything done to beat the shift is acceptable." I don't care if it's 15-0 in the 9th inning, if you don't want them to bunt, have your3B play 3B, your SS play SS, and your 2B play 2B (not medium RF).

 

ESPN had a poll question, "Do you have a problem with Colby Rasmus laying down a bunt for a single with his team up by two and with two outs in the fifth?" I was shocked that 96% said they had no problem with it, which is amazingly high, considering 20% of ESPN "readers" are only capable of looking at pictures, voting randomly in polls, and posting idiotic comments made up of texting abbreviations and obscenities altered to get past the text filters. (When I'm not doing that, I post here.)

[TheLeviathan]

It could have been worse. I was going to start a new thread with the story, but I checked here first to see if it was covered. Unwritten rule number 1 needs to be "when you play the shift, anything done to beat the shift is acceptable." I don't care if it's 15-0 in the 9th inning, if you don't want them to bunt, have your3B play 3B, your SS play SS, and your 2B play 2B (not medium RF).

 

ESPN had a poll question, "Do you have a problem with Colby Rasmus laying down a bunt for a single with his team up by two and with two outs in the fifth?" I was shocked that 96% said they had no problem with it, which is amazingly high, considering 20% of ESPN "readers" are only capable of looking at pictures, voting randomly in polls, and posting idiotic comments made up of texting abbreviations and obscenities altered to get past the text filters. (When I'm not doing that, I post here.)

 

Yeah, when even drones over at ESPN vote like that it should send a pretty clear message about how absurd this whole system is. Players can't even keep the web of stupidity straight anymore.

[Physics Guy]

Yeah, when even drones over at ESPN vote like that it should send a pretty clear message about how absurd this whole system is. Players can't even keep the web of stupidity straight anymore.

 

If Lewis is on Twitter, somebody needs to send him a link to that poll. Lewis is an idiot. I wish more players would do this and make teams stop playing the shift. I am always disappointed by the lack of bunting ability major leaguers have. When the third baseman is playing shortstop it really shouldn't be that hard to bunt for a base hit.

[TheLeviathan]

Did I hear right this morning that Blyleven made similar stupid comments last night in a three run game?

[#1ShaneMackFan]

Did I hear right this morning that Blyleven made similar stupid comments last night in a three run game?

 

Yep, exactly the same. Guy bunted and Bremer said he liked the move. Blyleven was clearly not happy. He ended by saying at least his batting average went up.

[TheLeviathan]

Yep, exactly the same. Guy bunted and Bremer said he liked the move. Blyleven was clearly not happy. He ended by saying at least his batting average went up.

 

I need that Picard meme handy for this stuff.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Was this Carlos Santana's bunt? On the radio Danny Gladden was fine with it, but Cory Provus questioned why a guy who absolutely crushed the ball in his previous at bat would be bunting in that game situation. It turned out that Santana added a homer and a second double by the time the night was over; impossible to know in hindsight if he would have been better off swinging away.

 

I think if an infield is shifting, the batter should do whatever they feel comfortable doing to beat it - bunting, trying to hit the ball the other way, swinging for the fences, doesn't really make a difference.

 

I also assume that Dozier would not have bunted for a single in the next half inning if Santana was swinging away. In Dozier's case, Chisenhall was not playing in at 3rd, so he just laid down a good bunt for a hit. No one got mad at Dozier, though it was a similar case of taking advantage of defensive positioning.

[TheLeviathan]

Was this Carlos Santana's bunt? On the radio Danny Gladden was fine with it, but Cory Provus questioned why a guy who absolutely crushed the ball in his previous at bat would be bunting in that game situation. It turned out that Santana added a homer and a second double by the time the night was over; impossible to know in hindsight if he would have been better off swinging away.

 

I think if an infield is shifting, the batter should do whatever they feel comfortable doing to beat it - bunting, trying to hit the ball the other way, swinging for the fences, doesn't really make a difference.

 

I also assume that Dozier would not have bunted for a single in the next half inning if Santana was swinging away. In Dozier's case, Chisenhall was not playing in at 3rd, so he just laid down a good bunt for a hit. No one got mad at Dozier, though it was a similar case of taking advantage of defensive positioning.

 

You have laid out very well how a rational person should see things. And, in so doing, shone light on how stupid all this stuff really is.

 

I doubt Blyleven accused Dozier of stat-padding.

[snepp]

I need that Picard meme handy for this stuff.

 

Sometimes, one isn't enough.

 

 

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130630025157/tvtropesmirror/images/b/bc/Facepalm_picard_riker.jpg

[TheLeviathan]

In news of major league players being babies about small transgressions normal adults handle without violence:

 

Pedro thinks mom jokes are justification for tossing around the elderly.  I really like Pedro but holy crap that's dumb man.

[gunnarthor]

?  Nothing in that article suggests that elderly jokes are justification for tossing around the elderly. Pedro didn't even start anything, Zimmer basically fell down on his own (20 sec mark), Pedro just pushed his arms off his face.  Pedro certainly threw at people on purpose, despite his claims (including Matt Lawton once when Lawton tried to call time out).

[TheLeviathan]

?  Nothing in that article suggests that elderly jokes are justification for tossing around the elderly. Pedro didn't even start anything, Zimmer basically fell down on his own (20 sec mark), Pedro just pushed his arms off his face.  Pedro certainly threw at people on purpose, despite his claims (including Matt Lawton once when Lawton tried to call time out).

 

I'm also unsure what you thought you were reading...but Pedro pretty clearly implied that a "Yo Momma" joke from Posada necessitated a brawl.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Has this book been mentioned yet?

http://www.amazon.com/The-Baseball-Codes-Beanballs-Bench-Clearing/dp/030727862X

 

The Baseball Codes: Beanballs, Sign Stealing, and Bench-Clearing Brawls: The Unwritten Rules of America's Pastime

 

Long title, but it was a pretty quick read and had a lot of really great tidbits. The kind of twisted logic that goes into the game was frustrating to read some times, but I appreciated the candor of the various players interviewed for the book. Some of the stories are pretty hilarious, Bert Blyleven's patented hotfoot prank is featured in one chapter.

[gunnarthor]

Has this book been mentioned yet?

http://www.amazon.com/The-Baseball-Codes-Beanballs-Bench-Clearing/dp/030727862X

 

The Baseball Codes: Beanballs, Sign Stealing, and Bench-Clearing Brawls: The Unwritten Rules of America's Pastime

 

Long title, but it was a pretty quick read and had a lot of really great tidbits. The kind of twisted logic that goes into the game was frustrating to read some times, but I appreciated the candor of the various players interviewed for the book. Some of the stories are pretty hilarious, Bert Blyleven's patented hotfoot prank is featured in one chapter.

Yeah, I've read it and a lot my links in this thread go to Mr. Turbow's website.  It's great.  He's done a wonderful job showing how the unwritten rules have evolved over the century plus of baseball.  And frankly, I think they add another level of enjoyment to the game.  

[gunnarthor]

I'm also unsure what you thought you were reading...but Pedro pretty clearly implied that a "Yo Momma" joke from Posada necessitated a brawl.

Your post said that "Pedro thinks mom jokes are justification for tossing around the elderly."  Nothing in that link suggests anything like that.  The brawl wasn't started by a "yo momma" joke and didn't involve Posada or Pedro. Zimmer charged Pedro (20 sec mark) and Pedro merely slapped his hands away and the old guy fell mostly on his own momentum.  Perhaps Posada said something negative toward him in those first 20 seconds but that still wouldn't support your theory.

[gunnarthor]

And we will try to do this another way without leading to another report.  Where is your condemnation toward Suh or Munnerlyn for their actions?  Or the ND hockey player who flattened a UMD hockey player?  In baseball, players are ejected, fined and suspended regularly for their actions in on-field melee's.  Yet you keep blaming unwritten rules for this and equated it to criminal actioins while seeming to ignore that this kind of stuff happens in every sport far beyond the boundaries of what is permissible in that sport.  

[Mike Sixel]

why do we need to condemn every sport to fix one? I don't get this argument at all.

[TheLeviathan]

Your post said that "Pedro thinks mom jokes are justification for tossing around the elderly."  Nothing in that link suggests anything like that.  The brawl wasn't started by a "yo momma" joke and didn't involve Posada or Pedro. Zimmer charged Pedro (20 sec mark) and Pedro merely slapped his hands away and the old guy fell mostly on his own momentum.  Perhaps Posada said something negative toward him in those first 20 seconds but that still wouldn't support your theory.

 

 This is right in the article:

According to Martinez, it was an insult Posada hurled about his mother that set him off and ultimately led to that awful scene.

"Between Latinos you don’t mention anybody’s mother. And I never forgot that one. Up to this day. I did not appreciate that. I know that it was in the heat of the situation, but that’s sensitive to Latino players.”

 

 

So, yes, that's exactly what Pedro said.  

 

As for the rest of that post - this is a baseball forum correct?  Why do I have to talk about hockey and football in a baseball thread?

 

Not to mention you still, somehow, haven't managed to grasp the distinction between a rules violation and an unwritten rules violation.  An illegal check in hockey is against the rules.  Like sliding 12 feet out of the baseline to spike a guy in baseball.  That's an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

Bunting in the second inning, saying a "yo momma" joke, or stealing a base up by 3 runs are NOTHING like what Suh did.  And yet, every year, guys throw baseballs at each other for such offenses.  In no other sport does that happen with anywhere near the frequency or insanity of baseball.  And I only keep this thread going because I love baseball and these antics are shamefully stupid and immature.

[gunnarthor]

 

Bunting in the second inning, saying a "yo momma" joke, or stealing a base up by 3 runs are NOTHING like what Suh did.  And yet, every year, guys throw baseballs at each other for such offenses.  In no other sport does that happen with anywhere near the frequency or insanity of baseball.  And I only keep this thread going because I love baseball and these antics are shamefully stupid and immature.

Obviously, you and I are reading the same article and watching the same video and seeing two different things.  

As to blaming baseball, I'm pretty confident that there is more after the whistle altercations in football every week then in baseball every season.  Hell, the NFL had to pass a rule specifically b/c the players were using really naughty language.  And Suh deliberately stepped on a defenseless players ankle (with both feet).

[TheLeviathan]

Obviously, you and I are reading the same article and watching the same video and seeing two different things.  

As to blaming baseball, I'm pretty confident that there is more after the whistle altercations in football every week then in baseball every season.  Hell, the NFL had to pass a rule specifically b/c the players were using really naughty language.  And Suh deliberately stepped on a defenseless players ankle (with both feet).

 

How is there any other way to interpret Pedro's remarks?  He's bashing Posada for some personal stuff, fine I get that, but he says that history with Posada was at the center of the brawl with Zimmerman.  He claims that yo momma joke, especially offensive to Latin players I guess, is why that started.

 

If baseball wants to put a rule against bat flips and bad language - I'll bash them for it just like I do with the No Fun League.  The taunting penalties and things like that are ridiculous and unnecessary.  Suh's behavior was totally unacceptable and he should have been suspended.  

 

Now that we risked policy violations for being off-topic....can we get back to baseball players acting like 5 year olds?

[gunnarthor]

why do we need to condemn every sport to fix one? I don't get this argument at all.

We don't need to, Levi is seems to think baseball is the only sport with unwritten rules and a conduct of play policed by the players.  Evidence of such things ends his "baseball is the only sport that X happens in" theory.  For example, Levi thinks baseball players shouldn't react to bad words (Yo Mamma jokes), yet such things are so common in other sports that the NFL passed rules against it.  

[TheLeviathan]

We don't need to, Levi is seems to think baseball is the only sport with unwritten rules and a conduct of play policed by the players.  Evidence of such things ends his "baseball is the only sport that X happens in" theory.  For example, Levi thinks baseball players shouldn't react to bad words (Yo Mamma jokes), yet such things are so common in other sports that the NFL passed rules against it.  

 

Only baseball players start brawls and go after each other over stealing a base in the second inning.  Please, I beg you, to find the last brawl started in the NFL over a team running up the score.  Even the NBA or NHL.  

 

And that's taking it easy on you.  I'm not even asking you to find a brawl for a hockey player scoring when they were up 2-0 in the third.  Or an NBA player for dunking the ball up by 12 in the third quarter.  Or anything else as ridiculous as what baseball players do.

[gunnarthor]

How is there any other way to interpret Pedro's remarks?  He's bashing Posada for some personal stuff, fine I get that, but he says that history with Posada was at the center of the brawl with Zimmerman.  He claims that yo momma joke, especially offensive to Latin players I guess, is why that started.

 

 

Yet you said Pedro things yo mamma jokes are justification for beating up the elderly.  None of which is true - Pedro did not beat up Zimmer over a yo mamma joke (he didn't beat up Zimmer at all, the old guy fell trying to attack Pedro).  You are (seemingly) trying to imply that one of baseballs most famous fights happened b/c of a yo mamma joke, when it didn't.  

[TheLeviathan]

Yet you said Pedro things yo mamma jokes are justification for beating up the elderly.  None of which is true - Pedro did not beat up Zimmer over a yo mamma joke (he didn't beat up Zimmer at all, the old guy fell trying to attack Pedro).  You are (seemingly) trying to imply that one of baseballs most famous fights happened b/c of a yo mamma joke, when it didn't.  

 

Oh of course there was some hyperbole in that, but yes, Pedro just told us that famous fight started with a Yo Momma joke from Posada.  And in so doing he tossed an old guy around for it.   That's ridiculous.  

 

Imagine Vince Wilfork making a Yo Momma joke to Flacco and Flacco running over and attacking Belichek.  That's the equivalent.

[gunnarthor]

Only baseball players start brawls and go after each other over stealing a base in the second inning.  Please, I beg you, to find the last brawl started in the NFL over a team running up the score.  Even the NBA or NHL.  

 

And that's taking it easy on you.  I'm not even asking you to find a brawl for a hockey player scoring when they were up 2-0 in the third.  Or an NBA player for dunking the ball up by 12 in the third quarter.  Or anything else as ridiculous as what baseball players do.

http://deadspin.com/lions-dominic-raiola-says-he-went-low-because-patriots-1662421758

 

And when was the last brawl started by a guy stealing second base in the second inning?  

[TheLeviathan]

http://deadspin.com/lions-dominic-raiola-says-he-went-low-because-patriots-1662421758

 

And when was the last brawl started by a guy stealing second base in the second inning?  

 

Well, that wasn't a brawl either, but the equivalent would be what this thread started with.  Lowrie/Bo Porter, Rasmus/Lewis, oh hell:  here is a whole (Part 1 mind you) video of brawls started over non-violations.

 

I stopped counting after 5 because, well, you won't find nearly that many in any other sport.  But by all means try.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't think Levi is saying that only baseball has unwritten rules.....but THIS THREAD is about baseball. Why do people call on him to critique other sports, more than 1 time, in this thread about baseball?

[TheLeviathan]

Oh, and just to be clear, what Raoila did was ridiculous, stupid, and unacceptable.  He tried to then wrap himself in the protection of an "unwritten rule" that is equally stupid and ridiculous.  But no one in their right mind buys his cover or his behavior, as well they shouldn't.

 

That's a good example of a football player being stupid with unwritten rules - they're just extremely rare.  In baseball they're fairly common, that's the difference.  (All sports, I'd add, have the running up the score unwritten rule though.  What Porter and Lewis got mad about is a phenomenon unique to baseball)

[TheLeviathan]

The only explanation for this has to be that baseball players are jealous of how great soccer players are at being whiny primadonnas.