Unwritten Rules are Not Smart

[gunnarthor]

http://thebaseballcodes.com/2014/04/28/as-push-back-on-porter-houston-pilot-pops/

 

I forgot to post this but here is the finale to the A's/Astros grudge, link has video to the incident. In short, A's hit the Astros lead off man in the butt in the top of the 9th in a game they were leading 12-5. A's websites rejoiced - http://www.athleticsnation.com/2014/4/25/5655000/recap-oakland-athletics-beat-astros-12-5-josh-donaldson-daric-barton

[TheLeviathan]

http://thebaseballcodes.com/2014/04/28/as-push-back-on-porter-houston-pilot-pops/

 

I forgot to post this but here is the finale to the A's/Astros grudge, link has video to the incident. In short, A's hit the Astros lead off man in the butt in the top of the 9th in a game they were leading 12-5. A's websites rejoiced - http://www.athleticsnation.com/2014/4/25/5655000/recap-oakland-athletics-beat-astros-12-5-josh-donaldson-daric-barton

 

It's a mockery of common sense any of this ever happened. All thanks to the unwritten rules.

[JB_Iowa]

Baseball is a small community. There are unwritten rules in every community I've ever been in whether it is a city or town, workplace, church, organization, etc.

 

And the smaller the community is, it seems like the more unwritten rules it has. Whether it is what parking spot you take or whether you mow your lawn on Sunday or what night you schedule a meeting or what happens if you miss an event.

 

For me, unwritten rules are part of the charm of community ... and part of the charm of baseball.

 

I'm not advocating violence here. Just saying that the unwritten rules are a part (and at times a significant part) of the fabric of the game.

 

And eliminating them would remove a lot of the history, tradition and appeal of the game. But you can console yourself that like all traditions, the unwritten rules will evolve over time.

[Mr. Brooks]

Baseball is a small community. There are unwritten rules in every community I've ever been in whether it is a city or town, workplace, church, organization, etc.

 

And the smaller the community is, it seems like the more unwritten rules it has. Whether it is what parking spot you take or whether you mow your lawn on Sunday or what night you schedule a meeting or what happens if you miss an event.

 

For me, unwritten rules are part of the charm of community ... and part of the charm of baseball.

 

I'm not advocating violence here. Just saying that the unwritten rules are a part (and at times a significant part) of the fabric of the game.

 

And eliminating them would remove a lot of the history, tradition and appeal of the game. But you can console yourself that like all traditions, the unwritten rules will evolve over time.

 

What is the unwritten rule regarding mowing your lawn on Sunday? I'm afraid I've never heard of that one.

[JB_Iowa]

What is the unwritten rule regarding mowing your lawn on Sunday? I'm afraid I've never heard of that one.

 

This is part of why you guys have trouble understanding Bert. I live in a county that has a substantial population with Dutch ancestry (some immigrant, many 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation descendants.)

 

That means that much of the county is of a Reformed Faith. In times past, they wouldn't even cook meals on Sunday -- they'd prepare them on Saturday so that they didn't need to work on Sunday. Farmers could do only necessary farm work on Sunday (i.e. could tend the animals but not work in the fields).

 

While the strength of those "unwritten rules" have faded, they still have an effect. In the towns in the county with a strong Dutch background, you simply do not mow your lawn on Sunday. And if you do, you are quietly told not to do so. Several years ago, a young Lutheran minister had the audacity to mow his lawn on Easter Sunday -- he quickly learned that he had violated an unwritten rule. Did anybody brawl with him? Of course not. Did the church board make it clear that he was expected to comply with the unwritten rule? You betcha.

 

In my small town, it is rare to hear a lawn mower on Sunday. It's not against any town ordinance. It's just one of those things you learn that you don't do.

[Mr. Brooks]

Yeah and just like most of the unwritten rules in baseball, that is pretty dumb.

I'll mow my lawn any day of the week that I choose to. If someone doesn't like it, it is they who have the problem, not me.

[JB_Iowa]

Yeah and just like most of the unwritten rules in baseball, that is pretty dumb.

I'll mow my lawn any day of the week that I choose to. If someone doesn't like it, it is they who have the problem, not me.

 

It is a matter of common courtesy and of respect for the culture and traditions in the community.

 

Oops, didn't someone mention courtesy above? Perhaps that is what some of you don't understand.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Yeah and just like most of the unwritten rules in baseball, that is pretty dumb.

I'll mow my lawn any day of the week that I choose to. If someone doesn't like it, it is they who have the problem, not me.

 

Try mowing your lawn at 2 a.m. Who's problem does that become?

[TheLeviathan]

It is a matter of common courtesy and of respect for the culture and traditions in the community.

 

Oops, didn't someone mention courtesy above? Perhaps that is what some of you don't understand.

 

None of that is about courtesy. It's about a small group of people trying to impose their belief set on everyone else through threats, intimidation, etc.

 

If my neighbors need to sleep in on Sunday because they work late on Saturday, I'd be just fine showing the courtesy to not mow the lawn. If their flying spaghetti monster or antiquated way of doing things is the only reason? I'd say no thanks - I respect your beliefs but that doesn't mean I have to share them.

 

All you described is again how people who are too weak minded to allow others to do things differently are capable of strong-arming their petulance into a justification to act like clowns.

[TheLeviathan]

Try mowing your lawn at 2 a.m. Who's problem does that become?

 

Respecting common courtesy isn't the same thing as respecting a code of "do it our way because we said so or else".

[TheLeviathan]

I'm not advocating violence here. Just saying that the unwritten rules are a part (and at times a significant part) of the fabric of the game.

 

And eliminating them would remove a lot of the history, tradition and appeal of the game. But you can console yourself that like all traditions, the unwritten rules will evolve over time.

 

Also, this is an elementary fallacy.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Respecting common courtesy isn't the same thing as respecting a code of "do it our way because we said so or else".

 

Levi, I realize you are too far invested in your position by now (we've all been there) but there's not really much of a difference. jmo

[TheLeviathan]

Levi, I realize you are too far invested in your position by now (we've all been there) but there's not really much of a difference. jmo

 

They are absolutely not the same. It's curtesy to not cut someone off in your car. That's not the same as "We all drive 55 in this county and if you go 56 we'll hurl something at you"

 

Unwritten rules having nothing to do with curtesy as Porter and others are clearly demonstrating.

[JB_Iowa]

None of that is about courtesy. It's about a small group of people trying to impose their belief set on everyone else through threats, intimidation, etc.

 

If baseball's unwritten rules are a small set of people trying to impose their belief set on everyone else, then they WILL eventually change and evolve.

 

You seem to be focusing on a small group -- I'm talking about the totality of the community. If the baseball community -- AS A COMMUNITY -- comes to the conclusion that a particular unwritten rule is unfair or needs to change then the rule will eventually change.

[TheLeviathan]

If baseball's unwritten rules are a small set of people trying to impose their belief set on everyone else, then they WILL eventually change and evolve.

 

You seem to be focusing on a small group -- I'm talking about the totality of the community. If the baseball community -- AS A COMMUNITY -- comes to the conclusion that a particular unwritten rule is unfair or needs to change then the rule will eventually change.

 

Except these rules do take a long time to change when they are part of an insular community because the light of reason has a hard time shining on their fallacies. Just like you got caught up in tradition, so do they. There isn't enough outside influence working against the dogma.

 

It's totally nonsensical to keep following those rules but for those without perspective they don't see the folly in it. So it stays insular and protected and perpetuated.

[Mr. Brooks]

It is a matter of common courtesy and of respect for the culture and traditions in the community.

 

Oops, didn't someone mention courtesy above? Perhaps that is what some of you don't understand.

 

So what if my neighbor on one side of me is against mowing your lawn on Sunday, while the neighbor on the other side of me is against mowing your lawn on Saturday?

Well, I guess I don't get to mow my lawn at all.

 

Telling my neighbor he should mow his lawn on Sunday (when it goes against his belief system) would be a lack of courtesy, choosing to mow my lawn on Sunday does not infringe on his belief system in any way, shape, or form.

 

Where do you draw the line? I'm curious to know?

What if I have a belief that all children should be homeschooled? Do I have a right to extend that belief to everyone in my community? Do I have a right to ostracize you because you don't share my belief?

What if I have a belief that men shouldnt cut their hair, or shave their beards? Do I have a right to impose that belief on my neighbors?

 

Isn't religious freedom not only the right to your own beliefs, but ALSO my right not to have your beliefs imposed on me?

 

What if an interracial couple, or a gay couple move into a community where people have strong beliefs against that? I guess the only courteous thing to do would be for that couple to break up, or move away, right?

[Mr. Brooks]

Try mowing your lawn at 2 a.m. Who's problem does that become?

 

Except one of these things is perfectly legal for me to do, on my own property that I paid for and pay taxes on, while the other is likely illegal.

[gunnarthor]

This thread got pretty ridiculous. On the plus side, here's a nice article on sign stealing from Mr. Turbow.

[TheLeviathan]

In further news....it appears one pitcher is safely in the "adult" group and not in the "petulant tool" group of ballplayers. Good for you Mr. Hudson.

[TheLeviathan]

Drama Queens.

[gunnarthor]

http://thebaseballcodes.com/2014/06/08/is-that-your-glove-in-my-gut-or-are-you-just-happy-to-see-me/

[gunnarthor]

And, of course, it got even better today when Machado threw his bat (accidentally) down the 3rd base line. Awesome. And that was after he (accidentally) hit the A's catcher in the head with his back swing, knocking him out of the game.

 

And the A's/Orioles rivalry gets better.

[TheLeviathan]

http://thebaseballcodes.com/2014/06/08/is-that-your-glove-in-my-gut-or-are-you-just-happy-to-see-me/

 

It's a good summary, the problem with putting all of this on Machado (and a great deal of it belongs there to be sure) is that it ignores that the unwritten rules culture breeds this sort of petulance. Machado might be a whiny, over-sensitive person in general but because baseball indulges that sort of behaviors these sorts of things happen more often.

 

It's sort of like arguing "unwritten rules don't cause fights, people cause fights" - I don't buy that line of argument any time it's paraded out.

[gunnarthor]

It's a good summary, the problem with putting all of this on Machado (and a great deal of it belongs there to be sure) is that it ignores that the unwritten rules culture breeds this sort of petulance. Machado might be a whiny, over-sensitive person in general but because baseball indulges that sort of behaviors these sorts of things happen more often.

I don't think baseball indulges any bad behavior any more than any other sport. I think you can make a pretty good case that football - at all levels - does it the most.

 

As to Machedo, I think he purposefully hit Norris on his backswing. That's potentially a lot more dangerous than a black eye or a fastball to the back. The league should really crack down on him on this. And hopefully he has guys in the locker room that tell him to knock that **** off.

[TheLeviathan]

I don't think baseball indulges any bad behavior any more than any other sport. I think you can make a pretty good case that football - at all levels - does it the most.

 

Only baseball has this systemic nonsense. It is uniquely a professional baseball thing in scope and severity of stupidity.

[gunnarthor]

Only baseball has this systemic nonsense. It is uniquely a professional baseball thing in scope and severity of stupidity.

You keep saying that but there really is nothing to support that. Every single sport has some form of retaliation for both real and perceived slights. Baseball is a bit different than Hockey, Basketball and Football in that it doesn't really have penalties during a play or normally physical contact so the policing is a bit different.

 

But in any event, nothing Machado did was supported by the unwritten rules (in fact, it could be clearly argued that, had Machado had a better understanding of the rules, some of this stuff wouldn't have happened).

[TheLeviathan]

But in any event, nothing Machado did was supported by the unwritten rules (in fact, it could be clearly argued that, had Machado had a better understanding of the rules, some of this stuff wouldn't have happened).

 

"X doesn't cause fight, people cause fights" is a convenient excuse for the unwritten rules. They encourage this sort of behavior because they allow people to think there are "rules" not codified that they can retaliate against. Most of which are petty and childish.

[TheLeviathan]

Straight from the mouth of McCarthy:

 

Diamondbacks pitcher Brandon McCarthy asks, "But aren't there unwritten rules in every industry? In journalism, you can't steal sources, right? In hockey, guys don't take their skates off and slash an opponent's throat with the blade. In football, you never see a guy take off his helmet and just bludgeon an opponent. We've been playing baseball since the 1800s. We just have more unwritten rules."

 

He could not have made a better argument AGAINST his own position. When you have to reach to depths like that to make a parallel, it shows just how absurd the notion that these things exist elsewhere. The unwritten rules are not just common decency and respect, they go WAY beyond that. All he could come up with was extreme examples that better illustrate how absurd baseball is.

[TheLeviathan]

And this is spot on.

[gunnarthor]

And this is spot on.

And the spot on reply.

 

At this point, I just don't get your position. Earlier in this thread you said you were ok with a guy retaliating in certain circumstances. Later, you compared being hit with a pitch to assault but wouldn't go that far against hockey players or football players. I honestly can't follow your logic on this issue.

 

To me, the concept of unwritten rules is fine. It makes the game more fun, makes rivalries better. I think every sport has some form of them - in tennis it's considered bad form to hit the ball into a defenseless player, for instance, and when they do, they get saddled with bad

.

 

You will never be able to (successfully) make an argument that baseball is the only sport that polices conduct. Players in every sport push, shove, hit, tackle, spit - or "assault" as you called it - after a play all the time.