The first step in realizing you have a problem is admitting to it right? Well, apparently the next step either doesn't exist or is locked away in Gringott's to never see the light of day. Thing is, I'm an elitist. Whew. That was more difficult than it seems... actually, na not really.

I have a problem reading nonsense and tolerating irrational or outrageous (deemed by me of course) thoughts. Its not that you don't have a right to post about anything you want, its just that you are probably wrong if you feel like: 1) a particular trade makes sense for both teams 2) you've stumbled upon some diamond in the rough no MLB team has yet 3) you disagree with anything I post 4) you don't use stats for arguments (no saber is not from star wars). I don't want to automatically dismiss your posts (unless you meet said criteria), but feel we would all be better off there was a concentrated effort to correct it.

That said, lets go over proper baseball discussion etiquette. Stats are king, as are direct quotes, video examples, and the occasional infatuation with young adult boys/men. I understand you think he's great, simma down naw... no need to ruin a good pair of shorts. Lets introduce thinking objectively and critically. Put yourself on the other side of the argument/discussion, what evidence could be used to persuade you? Does talking in circles and using straw-men work? No, lets try real evidence then. If the evidence does not support you then maybe you are wrong. Its ok, I find myself wrong often; I just do it before putting things out on a message board and defending false stance for 5 pages. Again, not everybody is me and appreciate individuality... to a point. Back on track. If you ever feel the need to use "clutch" "scrappy" "does the little things" or any of the other stupid cliches just do us all a favor and punch yourself in the face afterwards. You can post what you want, I would just appreciate you doing to yourself what I can't do when I read it.

That is a little dose of elitism for everyone. I'm sure there will be more to come once the regular season starts and I start hearing how Plouffe is no good because he only hits HR's when nobody is on base, or how Correia is pitching well by only giving up 4 runs in 6 IP. Thinking about it already makes me want to punch somebody in the face.

Hahahaha. Wait, what?

I miss the days when I was just able to watch baseball and enjoy the game without needing all the stats and the over-analyzing of every roster move, lineup construction, in-game decisions, quotes, etc. It's a great game, and there are no absolutes. That's what people need to remember. Sometimes a manager can go against the book and it pays off tremendously. Other times, he can do exactly what the book tells him to do, and it doesn't pan out. That's the fun of the game. Over-analysis and overthinking and questioning every decision every day is what i can't handle well.

bluesky, a long running joke on the old message board quite a few frequent poster came from was that of elitism. There comes a point in following/watching baseball where you achieve a deeper understanding. Like Seth pointed out, if you wanted you can over-analyze every decision in this game. I love that part of the game and also wish I had my innocence back again.

I totally understood the gist of your post. I was just being silly, as if I was with you and laughing but then suddenly realized that it was directed toward me...

And let's be honest, you took a couple of shots that could easily be interpreted as being in reference to my SPEED argument. But let's also be honest.... Your post was funny. Intentionally, and unintentionally. Intentionally in respect to the punching yourself in the face bit, etc.... Unintentionally? Imagine the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons saying all of what you've said. And think of how seriously he would be taking himself as he says it. "Heh, schooled those newbs..."

It's a Baseball Blog and you are talking about etiquette which, if used properly, will spare posters from being "corrected". What is abundantly clear is that you really feel like you've reached a deeper understanding.

If you wanted to dig a bit deeper, though, you could reflect on what Socrates thought true wisdom entailed. Elitism was not part of his philosophy. Neither was focusing on what one knows. Realizing what one doesn't know was much more important. I tried to bring up the point that maybe we don't know everything about the effects of SPEED on the game, and if posters were being honest I think they'd admit that they created straw-man arguments out of what I said. Somebody (might have even been you smerf) even felt it was their job to inform me of how difficult it was to read my posts and actually questioned/accused me of forcing complex vocabulary. Quite an assumption, despite any evidence, background, video footage, or stats to support the contention that this isn't just the way that I think, speak, and write.

What's really funny to me is that you have a deep understanding of baseball now, but didn't even think quantifying SPEED was possible, and then didn't think the stats proved anything, and then admitted that they did but questioned whether or not they could be used to project future performance. And if they can, you'll have.... reached a deeper understanding, I suppose.

I really like this site, and I really like all the different posters. Even Fro....

I think that many of you take yourselves much more seriously than you need to, and that you take for granted that NOW YOU KNOW HOW IT WORKS. Before you didn't, BUT NOW YOU DO. And you'll realize, just like those who used to rely on batting average and RBI as the major quantifiable stats, that you didn't know as much as you thought you did. Conventional wisdom is refined and filtered and changed until it is quite different than it was previously.

As far as wanting your innocence back: Your avatar is a smoking smurf. I think your childlike nature is safely established. Just thought that should be noted.

I love Seth's positivity. Even just his tone of voice on his podcasts has always struck me as him being a dude who's so confident in his understanding of stats and the roster machinations that he's able to transcend the 'Baseball Nerd" attitude that so many other hardcore observers and writers are guilty of. It seems he still just enjoys the pure, simple aspects of the game. His excitement about each prospect he's hot on always makes me laugh a little bit at his optimism, while at the same time I can't help but get all pumped up and excited as well.

I really did get a kick out of the punching yourself in the face business. Nice work.

Imagine the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons saying all of what you've said.

Huh? That's how I read every post in these forums.

/ Especially my own.

Smerf, you could've much more clearly defined your stance on trade proposals with an outline of "The Duensing Rule"

If every trade proposal you suggest includes someone that no other team in their right mind wants for any significant price but your fan base unrealistically believes has real and significant value....you should probably stop and rethink. Unless you're throwing Duensing into your proposed idea for snark purposes, which is heartily endorsed as good fun.

I don't have to look at stats to know that I cringe, whenever a ball is hit toward 3rd base. I don't have to belong to SABR to know that Florimon did not field like an elite shortstop. I do not have to be an elitest to fear for Aaron Hick's mental health after a month of facing major league pitching. I am old enough to remember Willie Mays in his rookie year. I know that players do not always produce as advertised...but sometimes they do. That is called hope.