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Tony Gwynn 2.0?

jlarson

Entry posted by jlarson in Twins ·

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The Minnesota Twins have recently re-signed Carlos Correa if you have yet to hear. Re-sparked trade rumors surrounding Max Kepler and Luis Arraez are swirling. I understand packaging these two players to acquire a high-end starting pitcher. I would have to be mesmerized by a deal to trade Arraez. His abilities and skillset are too unique.

Here are the top 10 comparisons on baseball-reference.com and when they played Major League Baseball.

Fred Tenney (1894 – 1909 and 1911)
Jo-Jo Moore (1930 – 1941)
Roger Bresnahan (1897 and 1900 – 1915)
Ethan Allen (1926 – 1938)
Arnold Statz (1919 – 1928)
Sam West (1927 – 1942)
Tony Gwynn (1982 – 2001)
Jim O'Rourke (1872 – 1893)
Gene Robertson (1919 – 1930)
Rich Rollins (1961 – 1970)

Of the ten players listed, three are Hall of Famers, and one, Tony Gwynn, is considered by many to be one of the purest hitters of the 1980s and 1990s.

Let's also notice each of these player comparisons eras. Some, like Jim O'Rourke, played in the Pre-1900 era when overhand pitching became legalized in 1872. The rules we understand today were absent when Jim O'Rouke played. 

Others like Fred Tenney and Roger Bresnahan played in the Dead Ball Era between 1901-1920, when spitballs were allowed, and they used one ball per game. Fred Tenney and Roger Bresnahan probably could not even see the ball after their first at-bat.

Players like Jo-Jo Moore, Ethan Allen, Arnold Statz, Sam West, and Gene Robertson played in the Live Ball Era, which began in the 1920s and saw an increase in home runs and changes in the baseball ball used. 

Rich Rollins played in the Expansion Era when the number of teams in MLB expanded from 16 to 24.

And then there is Tony Gwynn. Compare Tony Gwynns and Luis Arraez through their age-25 season.

Luis Arraez: 

image.png.7c877149fee4be26ceaa8779059e5f76.png

 

Tony Gwynn: 

image.png.47125335dcc6f1e5b09e6761a018cf92.png

If Luis Arraez has more plate appearances, he is right with Tony Gwynn for hits. Tony Gwynn had 559 hits in 1889 plate appearances. Arraez checks in with 444 hits in 1569 place appearances. 

When comparing Arraez to these players, it's clear that there's something very unique about him. Is he a unicorn in the modern game, and we have not seen a hitter like him not named Tony Gwynn since nearly the turn of the century? 

Is his skill set not well suited for the modern game, and he won't be able to sustain being the same player in the future? In other words, is his value at its all-time high?

Wouldn't it be fun to find out exactly what we are seeing? Is it Tony Gwynn 2.0 or Rich Rollings 2.0? Like everything in life, it's probably somewhere in between, but I want to watch it play out in a Twins uniform.

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Nashvilletwin

Haha - didn’t see your post, but I just posted the same stats on the Should We Extend Arraez thread. The numbers are eerily similar through the first four years - and both finished their fourth year at age 25. 

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jlarson
3 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Haha - didn’t see your post, but I just posted the same stats on the Should We Extend Arraez thread. The numbers are eerily similar through the first four years - and both finished their fourth year at age 25. 

Yes! I do understand Arraez does not have a fit defensively but I want to see him hit.

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tony&rodney

Rich Rollins was a very good base runner and had as good of a glove as any third sacker not named Robinson. Rollins also was an accomplished hitter with decent pop in his bat. Unfortunately, Rollins had injuries and his outstanding years from 1962-1965 were not to be repeated. Rich was excellent for four years in a time when my  love for the game of baseball was in its early years. 

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jlarson
16 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Rich Rollins was a very good base runner and had as good of a glove as any third sacker not named Robinson. Rollins also was an accomplished hitter with decent pop in his bat. Unfortunately, Rollins had injuries and his outstanding years from 1962-1965 were not to be repeated. Rich was excellent for four years in a time when my  love for the game of baseball was in its early years. 

Great write-up and thank you for sharing! I had no idea his history.

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tony&rodney

I love to watch Arraez hit because he projects confidence and nearly dares the pitcher to try and throw strikes. The way he responds to pitches outside the strike zone is entertaining and he nods in appreciation when a pitcher throws an unhittable pitch that Arraez takes for a strike. Luis is fun to watch as he pokes the ball around the diamond and occasionally launches a ball over the outfielder's head or even into the seats. Arraez is an accomplished batter.

I do not think Arraez is a good comparison to Tony Gwynn because while they have similarities at the plate, one is an infielder with limited defensive skills and the other was a fairly decent outfielder. Additionally, Gwynn was a decent base runner. This is not to diminish the skills or accomplishments of Luis Arraez, it is only to say he doesn't need the yoke of being compared to the Hall of Famer Tony Gwynn.

As far as whether the Padres ever considered trading Gwynn, I'm not sure that is important but yes San Diego did examine offers at one time. It would be cool to see Arraez play ten more years in the major leagues and win several more batting titles too.

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Dave The Dastardly
19 hours ago, jlarson said:

Maybe?

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-02-21-sp-2040-story.html

But good question. 

Thanks for the link, but the article sounds more like a salary negotiation ploy by Padre ownership; take what we offer or we'll trade you. My question was whether or not Padre fans ever pushed for trading Gwynn because he had "trade value". I think probably not for several reasons, one being there was no social media to foster screwball ideas at the time and two, I don't think anybody had invented  "Trade Value" yet. The Game was just about the game.

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strumdatjag

The article lets us know where Tony Gwynn played, but it would be nice for some of the younger TD readers to know where Rich Rollins (who never had a “g”) played.   

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JD-TWINS
On 1/16/2023 at 10:49 AM, strumdatjag said:

The article lets us know where Tony Gwynn played, but it would be nice for some of the younger TD readers to know where Rich Rollins (who never had a “g”) played.   

MINNESOTA TWINS is where Rich Rollins played………..intermittently sharing 3rd base duties some years with Harmon Killebrew.

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strumdatjag
11 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

MINNESOTA TWINS is where Rich Rollins played………..intermittently sharing 3rd base duties some years with Harmon Killebrew.

Correct.  But he was never known as the G-Man (Rollins not Rollings).  Today, there are many RICH players but very few named “RICH”.  The Twins had both RICH Rollins and RICH Reese on the same teams. 

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