I'm of similar opinion. I don't think all is doom and gloom in Twinsland, provided the team can avoid the almost comically tragic injury situation of 2022 and just play ball with their mix of veterans and young talent. And I can't disagree with your 3 point plan, but have my own thoughts as well.

1] OF: Despite a front page OP, and my own forum thoughts, (quickly dismissed by the group), a few weeks ago, I'm not crazy about McCutchen. I like his experience and presence, and I'd be IN if I felt more comfortable that he'd be his 2021 self PER PLATE APPEARANCE. Who knows, he might surprise, but he's not my choice at this point.

I'm torn between Pollock and Mancini. Pollock is not the player he was, but he was good in 2021 and only OK in 2022. But he still hit LHP well last year and is an OK OF who has enough experience to be a 3rd or 4th option in CF with Gordon and Gallo. But I'm also leaning towards Mancini as the best choice. He can still play some corner OF...doubt he'd be worse than Garlick...and can play a solid 1B, working in with the LH Arraez and Kirilloff. I think he's the right choice.

2] BULLPEN: I also believe in Lopez's stuff and believe his brief,  mediocre Twins term in 2022 will turn around. I also have a lot of belief in the futures of both Moran and Alcala. But why just immediately "trust" in them, and their potential, when you have the $ to sign at least one option, if not two, to deepen the pen and set it up for success to deepen the STAFF as a whole and support the rotation? Chafin is still out there. So is Hand, probably on a 1yr deal. Why not add a LH to team with Thielbar? There might even be room for THREE LH BP arms, especially considering Moran's splits. That would be a huge luxury!

Just as the rotation will need depth at some point, so will your bullpen probably need at least 12 guys. Personally, I discount Pagan not from spur grapes, but I just don't believe in him. I think he's traded or cut eventually for poor performance.  So consider: Lopez, Duran, Thielbar, Chafin/Hand, Fulmer, Jax, Alcala, and Moran as your as your 1 and occasionally 2 IP guys. NOW, you have Winder, Sands, Henriquez, etc, as at least ONE long/middle guy, and you might keep two.

I think we're in agreement there's something to work with, and opportunity to add that gives the best and deepest bullpen they've had in YEARS.

3] ROTATION: I'm just not interested in Wacha, even if he's a cut above Bundy and Archer. I feel the Twins are just better off giving a shot to the likes of Varland, SWR, and the previously mentioned Winder over another mediocre veteran who doesn't have a future with the team.

(FWIW, my understanding has been interest in Wacha would be to replace Gray in a potential trade, but who knows for sure).

I have serious reservations in regard to a trade for Pablo Lopez. I get that he's young, talented, and offers upside. But this is where you and I will potentially disagree.

Thus far, his numbers don't scream top of the rotation starter. And again, young and with potential, he's got 2yrs of control and could be an extension candidate. And he's coming off a career year in regard to GS and IP. So maybe he's on the cusp of something?

But is he better than a healthy Gray? And is he worth what it might take to get him? I'm not sure the Twins are a perfect trade option as Miami is looking for immediate offense, and not prospects, per reports. Does Kepler fit their needs? Or might they prefer the ready/near ready Larnach/Kirilloff/Wallner and at less $? Perhaps they would be looking at Julien as a near ready inclusion. And Arraez?

IMPO, Arraez should NOT be traded unless the deal is just too good to pass up. He can cover 3B and 2B just fine here and there, but is best at 1B and DH. And what's wrong with that? He's a unique and special kind of hitter who fills a role as a hitter, clutch hitter, and OB machine who has enough pop to be dangerous once in a while. He's special in his role, and his loss leaves a potential gaping hole at the top of the Twins lineup if removed. 

At some point, the Twins need to stop trading long term talent and potential for 2yrs of control unless they are going to open up their wallet for extensions. Having Lopez could be NICE, but it's the immediate and future cost to get him that concerns me. 

I guess I'm of the current opinion that adding a bat, adding to the pen, and running with the current rotation and rotation options might not just be the wisest course.

2 hours ago, DocBauer said:

I'm of similar opinion. I don't think all is doom and gloom in Twinsland, provided the team can avoid the almost comically tragic injury situation of 2022 and just play ball with their mix of veterans and young talent. And I can't disagree with your 3 point plan, but have my own thoughts as well.

1] OF: Despite a front page OP, and my own forum thoughts, (quickly dismissed by the group), a few weeks ago, I'm not crazy about McCutchen. I like his experience and presence, and I'd be IN if I felt more comfortable that he'd be his 2021 self PER PLATE APPEARANCE. Who knows, he might surprise, but he's not my choice at this point.

I'm torn between Pollock and Mancini. Pollock is not the player he was, but he was good in 2021 and only OK in 2022. But he still hit LHP well last year and is an OK OF who has enough experience to be a 3rd or 4th option in CF with Gordon and Gallo. But I'm also leaning towards Mancini as the best choice. He can still play some corner OF...doubt he'd be worse than Garlick...and can play a solid 1B, working in with the LH Arraez and Kirilloff. I think he's the right choice.

2] BULLPEN: I also believe in Lopez's stuff and believe his brief,  mediocre Twins term in 2022 will turn around. I also have a lot of belief in the futures of both Moran and Alcala. But why just immediately "trust" in them, and their potential, when you have the $ to sign at least one option, if not two, to deepen the pen and set it up for success to deepen the STAFF as a whole and support the rotation? Chafin is still out there. So is Hand, probably on a 1yr deal. Why not add a LH to team with Thielbar? There might even be room for THREE LH BP arms, especially considering Moran's splits. That would be a huge luxury!

Just as the rotation will need depth at some point, so will your bullpen probably need at least 12 guys. Personally, I discount Pagan not from spur grapes, but I just don't believe in him. I think he's traded or cut eventually for poor performance.  So consider: Lopez, Duran, Thielbar, Chafin/Hand, Fulmer, Jax, Alcala, and Moran as your as your 1 and occasionally 2 IP guys. NOW, you have Winder, Sands, Henriquez, etc, as at least ONE long/middle guy, and you might keep two.

I think we're in agreement there's something to work with, and opportunity to add that gives the best and deepest bullpen they've had in YEARS.

3] ROTATION: I'm just not interested in Wacha, even if he's a cut above Bundy and Archer. I feel the Twins are just better off giving a shot to the likes of Varland, SWR, and the previously mentioned Winder over another mediocre veteran who doesn't have a future with the team.

(FWIW, my understanding has been interest in Wacha would be to replace Gray in a potential trade, but who knows for sure).

I have serious reservations in regard to a trade for Pablo Lopez. I get that he's young, talented, and offers upside. But this is where you and I will potentially disagree.

Thus far, his numbers don't scream top of the rotation starter. And again, young and with potential, he's got 2yrs of control and could be an extension candidate. And he's coming off a career year in regard to GS and IP. So maybe he's on the cusp of something?

But is he better than a healthy Gray? And is he worth what it might take to get him? I'm not sure the Twins are a perfect trade option as Miami is looking for immediate offense, and not prospects, per reports. Does Kepler fit their needs? Or might they prefer the ready/near ready Larnach/Kirilloff/Wallner and at less $? Perhaps they would be looking at Julien as a near ready inclusion. And Arraez?

IMPO, Arraez should NOT be traded unless the deal is just too good to pass up. He can cover 3B and 2B just fine here and there, but is best at 1B and DH. And what's wrong with that? He's a unique and special kind of hitter who fills a role as a hitter, clutch hitter, and OB machine who has enough pop to be dangerous once in a while. He's special in his role, and his loss leaves a potential gaping hole at the top of the Twins lineup if removed. 

At some point, the Twins need to stop trading long term talent and potential for 2yrs of control unless they are going to open up their wallet for extensions. Having Lopez could be NICE, but it's the immediate and future cost to get him that concerns me. 

I guess I'm of the current opinion that adding a bat, adding to the pen, and running with the current rotation and rotation options might not just be the wisest course.

Very good points! I agree with everything you said! My own personal belief in trading Arraez for Lopez lies in what each player offers the Twins. Arraez is a great player, one of my favorites, but he just doesn’t fit the Twins current philosophy. His biggest flaws are the injury history and he’s a defensive liability. While he’s great with the bat, he has next to no power, which is something the Twins covet. This is nitpicking, because he’s a great player, but his flaws make him less valuable the way the roster is built in my opinion.

Lopez on the other hand would bring much needed durability to a rotation that desperately needs it. He flashes ace potential and he’s only 26.

If the Twins keep Arraez and follow your plan, I will be more than happy. I agree that the rotation is as good as it’s been in years, and they have some young talent who could fill in in case of injury. Thank you for your input! Go, Twins!

I still think the best move they could make would be to get a quality manager that can stand up to the FO pushing for complete reliance on a spread sheet. They are excellant tools to use, but sometimes in pro sports they aren't as good as a good managers gut feelings IMHO.

11 hours ago, Hunter McCall said:

Very good points! I agree with everything you said! My own personal belief in trading Arraez for Lopez lies in what each player offers the Twins. Arraez is a great player, one of my favorites, but he just doesn’t fit the Twins current philosophy. His biggest flaws are the injury history and he’s a defensive liability. While he’s great with the bat, he has next to no power, which is something the Twins covet. This is nitpicking, because he’s a great player, but his flaws make him less valuable the way the roster is built in my opinion.

Lopez on the other hand would bring much needed durability to a rotation that desperately needs it. He flashes ace potential and he’s only 26.

If the Twins keep Arraez and follow your plan, I will be more than happy. I agree that the rotation is as good as it’s been in years, and they have some young talent who could fill in in case of injury. Thank you for your input! Go, Twins!

I like our starters and the young guys behind them for depth. Between Woods/Richardson - Winder - Varland there has to be ONE success!! I like the thought of Wacha or Cueto to bring experience early in the year & with that, the ability to move Maeda to Pen for at least 2.5 months, maybe entire year.

Duran - Thielbar - Jax - Moran - Maeda - Megill (with new 3rd pitch ?) - Chafin/Hand - Fulmer…….possibly the best Pen in baseball. Cost, additional $28 million/yr we have available. (Cueto-Hand-Fulmer) 

Alcala a 15 minute drive away …….same with a reworked López.

Lopez, to me, is one step behind Pagan on the way out the door. He had numerous poor years prior to ‘22 with pretty good stuff. He was lights out in 44 appearances in ‘22 (1st year in Pen) for Baltimore, and they moved him - why??? Fluke maybe? Anyway, he needs work with pitching coach & psychologist to square him away.

Please just spend the $ on FA available pitching……..feel secure with Farmer at SS & with Farm System depth coming……..quit talking about some need to trade Arraez while his value is high. .314 lifetime average over 4 years - plays 4 positions - played 144 games in ‘22. He hit 8HR’s last year and is capable of 3-6 more HR’s/year if he hits down in the order vs. being in the lead-off role (get on base mentality). Carew hit 14 HR’s 2 of 3 years batting in 3 hole vs. batting 1st or 2nd most of first half of his career ……..,different approach, different job, different results!! He hit .360 plus for 4 plus months in ‘22……..ran out of gas and hit .260 last 7 weeks. Pretty sure he can hit .305 & manage 12 HR (with some normal rest) til he’s 30 & beyond!!!

On 1/6/2023 at 7:26 AM, Karbo said:

I still think the best move they could make would be to get a quality manager that can stand up to the FO pushing for complete reliance on a spread sheet. They are excellant tools to use, but sometimes in pro sports they aren't as good as a good managers gut feelings IMHO.

On 1/6/2023 at 9:35 AM, JD-TWINS said:

I like our starters and the young guys behind them for depth. Between Woods/Richardson - Winder - Varland there has to be ONE success!! I like the thought of Wacha or Cueto to bring experience early in the year & with that, the ability to move Maeda to Pen for at least 2.5 months, maybe entire year.

Duran - Thielbar - Jax - Moran - Maeda - Megill (with new 3rd pitch ?) - Chafin/Hand - Fulmer…….possibly the best Pen in baseball. Cost, additional $28 million/yr we have available. (Cueto-Hand-Fulmer) 

Alcala a 15 minute drive away …….same with a reworked López.

Lopez, to me, is one step behind Pagan on the way out the door. He had numerous poor years prior to ‘22 with pretty good stuff. He was lights out in 44 appearances in ‘22 (1st year in Pen) for Baltimore, and they moved him - why??? Fluke maybe? Anyway, he needs work with pitching coach & psychologist to square him away.

Please just spend the $ on FA available pitching……..feel secure with Farmer at SS & with Farm System depth coming……..quit talking about some need to trade Arraez while his value is high. .314 lifetime average over 4 years - plays 4 positions - played 144 games in ‘22. He hit 8HR’s last year and is capable of 3-6 more HR’s/year if he hits down in the order vs. being in the lead-off role (get on base mentality). Carew hit 14 HR’s 2 of 3 years batting in 3 hole vs. batting 1st or 2nd most of first half of his career ……..,different approach, different job, different results!! He hit .360 plus for 4 plus months in ‘22……..ran out of gas and hit .260 last 7 weeks. Pretty sure he can hit .305 & manage 12 HR (with some normal rest) til he’s 30 & beyond!!!

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Analytics has its place, but a manager should be able to rely on intuition, not just computer algorithms, to make decisions. Rocco seems to be unable to do that with the pitching staff. Five innings and they are gone most of the time. Also it appears that Rocco has planned days off for position players scheduled in advance, regardless of how that player is playing. So he sits a HOT HITTER right in the middle of scorching the ball.  Why not ride that hitter for a couple more games. He even had Buxton AND Correa both out at the same time upon occasion. How does that make sense? After all it’s baseball, not football or hockey. 

I’m not in support of any trade that involves Lewis, Lee or SWR, all potential impact players. But I don’t trust the FO given their tack record from last year, trading prospects for starters with potential injury concerns. 

Bolstering the bullpen stands out the most to me. I would love a reunion with Fulmer, or similar type guy. 

As for trading Kepler, I think its a foregone conclusion that it will occur, but what will they acquire is the big question. I agree they will have to package him. I like the idea of taking on another contract to potentially lessen the prospect capital, whether that be for Lopez, or another pitcher. 

Great topic! Look forward to reading more! 

20 hours ago, Otaknam said:

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Analytics has its place, but a manager should be able to rely on intuition, not just computer algorithms, to make decisions. Rocco seems to be unable to do that with the pitching staff. Five innings and they are gone most of the time. Also it appears that Rocco has planned days off for position players scheduled in advance, regardless of how that player is playing. So he sits a HOT HITTER right in the middle of scorching the ball.  Why not ride that hitter for a couple more games. He even had Buxton AND Correa both out at the same time upon occasion. How does that make sense? After all it’s baseball, not football or hockey. 

Good to see someone else feels this way. I quit going to games because of this. I don't pay that much to watch backups. Team starters should play at home unless there's an injury or illness IMO.