Hall of Fame Modern Era Ballot

[drjim]

Actually seems pretty solid to me:

 

 

Two of them should be givens (Miller, Trammell) and it wouldn't be terrible if some other guys made it. Ballot does usually end in deadlock.

[Ben Noble]

You could make an argument for Miller having a greater influence than anyone else, period, on the game as we know it.

[mikelink45]

I know there is a lot of sentiment for Miller, but I am not excited about executives and related non-baseball elections in any of the HOFs.  If they want to give exec awards have something separate like they do for writers.  BOWIE KUHN???????????  I know there are some bad baseball choices too, but at least we have stats to review and it makes conversation.  But recent elections - owners, GMS do not belong in my HOF and neither do agents or union men.  They are important but peripheral.   

 

I would put many of these players in.  The one I think is most overlooked is Parker. 

 

[gunnarthor]

Agree, that's a pretty strong list of names. I'd like to see Miller, Morris and Trammel in.

[Pius Jefferson]

I just don't see the argument for Jack Morris. Because he was great in Game 7 of the World Series seems like the cherry on top of a deserving resume and not the top accomplishment for a career.

[Thrylos]

Miller should be in there.

 

As far of the rest, there were not good enough to get in the normal way.   About time this loophole closes.

[gunnarthor]

 

I just don't see the argument for Jack Morris. Because he was great in Game 7 of the World Series seems like the cherry on top of a deserving resume and not the top accomplishment for a career.

I imagine most pitchers would have said a 10 inning Game 7 world series shut out would be their top accomplishment. 

 

I think he has a pretty good resume, frankly. His 56 fWAR is pretty much right on the line where you have some HOFers and some non-HOFers. He has more WAR than guys like Whitey Ford, Sandy Koufak, Mordecai Brown and essentially ties him with guys like Jim Palmer, Red Ruffing and Carl Hubbell. He wouldn't be the best HOFer, he wouldn't be the worst. He was basically the last of the big inning pitchers. If you think the HOF should be about the famous players of the era, it's hard to not mention Morris since he was a big part of the 80s (a decade under represented in Cooperstown). I dunno. I think he (and Trammel) are close calls but I'm a big hall guy so I'd put them in.

[jimmer]

Like to see Miller and Trammell in.  The only deserving ones in the bunch.

[Pius Jefferson]

 

I imagine most pitchers would have said a 10 inning Game 7 world series shut out would be their top accomplishment. 

 

I think he has a pretty good resume, frankly. His 56 fWAR is pretty much right on the line where you have some HOFers and some non-HOFers. He has more WAR than guys like Whitey Ford, Sandy Koufak, Mordecai Brown and essentially ties him with guys like Jim Palmer, Red Ruffing and Carl Hubbell. He wouldn't be the best HOFer, he wouldn't be the worst. He was basically the last of the big inning pitchers. If you think the HOF should be about the famous players of the era, it's hard to not mention Morris since he was a big part of the 80s (a decade under represented in Cooperstown). I dunno. I think he (and Trammel) are close calls but I'm a big hall guy so I'd put them in.

 His WAR is only tied for 139th. Behind plenty of guys who aren't sniffing the Hall of Fame. The innings  are fine I guess but it rarely came with dominate stuff.(pitch to score is bunk) I would agree the decade is under represented but that's not why someone should be inducted.

[Dantes929]

Though a shorter career Ron Guidry was a much better pitcher than Morris.  Better bWAR in 180 fewer games and a much better ERA and ERA+.    Also had a season like few have had before or since to go along with a WS.     I don't care a whole lot but I still go with brighter shorter career over longevity within reason.

[gunnarthor]

 

 His WAR is only tied for 139th. Behind plenty of guys who aren't sniffing the Hall of Fame. The innings  are fine I guess but it rarely came with dominate stuff.(pitch to score is bunk) I would agree the decade is under represented but that's not why someone should be inducted.

And it's 63 on fangraphs around a bunch of other guys who are borderline - some in, some out.

 

 

[gunnarthor]

 

 

Though a shorter career Ron Guidry was a much better pitcher than Morris.  Better bWAR in 180 fewer games and a much better ERA and ERA+.    Also had a season like few have had before or since to go along with a WS.     I don't care a whole lot but I still go with brighter shorter career over longevity within reason.

Well, that's going to be the Johan Santana argument in a few years. Guidry was good but really only pitched 11 seasons.

[Dantes929]

 

Well, that's going to be the Johan Santana argument in a few years. Guidry was good but really only pitched 11 seasons.

Like I said if Morris gets in I am not going to argue but he was never the pitcher at his best that these guys were.    Guidry's 1978 season was insane.   9 complete game shut outs.  5 more complete games of giving up just one run.   30-5 in games he started on a team that needed game 163 to make the WS.   Then pitched two games in playoffs of 17 innings and 2 runs.      

Santana has a similar case and I hate to think that maybe getting jobbed out of a Cy Young might be the difference.     I think three of any title should get you strong consideration which is what we hang our hats on for Mauer and Oliva.   Three Cy Youngs should be automatic even if you just pitch three seasons.

[gunnarthor]

 

Like I said if Morris gets in I am not going to argue but he was never the pitcher at his best that these guys were.    Guidry's 1978 season was insane.   

Well, sure Guidry's 78 is one of the all-time pitching seasons ever. I'm a big hall guy and I like innings a lot so, to me, short high peaks aren't as good as long competency. But that's just personal preference. Morris, from 79-88, threw about as many innings as Guidry did in his career but not as dominating. And then he threw another 1400 innings. I think those other 1400 innings give him the better career. 

[Dantes929]

 

Well, sure Guidry's 78 is one of the all-time pitching seasons ever. I'm a big hall guy and I like innings a lot so, to me, short high peaks aren't as good as long competency. But that's just personal preference. Morris, from 79-88, threw about as many innings as Guidry did in his career but not as dominating. And then he threw another 1400 innings. I think those other 1400 innings give him the better career. 

I'm more a guy that likes the brilliance even if short lived.    Since their bWARs are so close, to me the extra 1400 innings Morris threw were at 0 WAR.    I know it doesn't work that way and while Morris probably did have the better career Guidry was a better pitcher.    I think most  people think like you do since Morris probably has a much better shot at the Hall.    

[biggentleben]

I'll get away from the Morris talk and say that the best Modern Era candidate isn't on the ballot - Lou Whitaker. Incredible that he's not in the Hall already. Actually, a better word would be pathetic.

 

The former Twins arm to argue about isn't Morris...it's Kaat.

[Squirrel]

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/27949-article-modern-era-ballot-full-of-flaws/