Molitor Pushing Hunter Reunion

[Parker Hageman]

According to 1500ESPN.com's Darren Wolfson, the Minnesota Twins' new manager is pushing to bring free agent outfielder Torii Hunter into the clubhouse: 

 

https://twitter.com/DarrenWolfson/status/535828623719428096

 

A lot has been made from the organization about creating a better clubhouse culture and while Hunter has been often tagged as a good influence from insiders and media-types, they seemingly overlook some of his glaring issues as well:

 

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/535830742836998145

 

What do you think?

[Mike Sixel]

Then I'm disappointed they hired Molitor. If "chemistry" matters more than talent, this team has a big problem. Hunter cannot play defense at all, not a lick.

 

If you were were a FA pitcher, would you come to play in front of this OF? I would not, especially if I was trying for a 1 year deal to enhance my value.

[Squirrel]

Just no.  That's what I think.

[whydidnt]

Agree 100% with Mike Wants Wins. I really don't understand why they would want to bring Torii back at this point. Ask Arizona how getting guys for grit and chemistry worked out for them. Twins really need to find a guy who will add to the OF defense not detract from it.

[big dog]

ARGH!!!!!  He can hit some, he can't field any more, and his "leadership" largely means his talking a lot whether people care or not.  When his bat falls off a cliff is he going to be content to sit back and provide leadership?  I doubt it.

[tobi0040]

Negative one point, for sure. 

 

The Twins should put sticky notes everywhere around the offense.  

 

OUR PROBLEMS ARE STARTING PITCHING AND OF DEFENSE

 

The decisions this off-season should be made with this focus and nothing more.

 

The silver lining here maybe that a 39 year old Hunter somehow has interest from 10 teams.  I am hoping that he values winning over being a mentor.

[Parker Hageman]

Wolfson added this:

 

https://twitter.com/DarrenWolfson/status/535843250092146689

 

I think he still can hit. The bigger question is regarding his defense. The advanced metrics are very bad on him but some say those are not doing his actual performance justice. Then again, Fangraphs.com's fan scouting reports have been harsh on him as he has aged:

 

 

 

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I think Hunter will want to play for a contender - unless the Twins offer a ridiculous amount of money, he's probably going to KC, Baltimore, Seattle or a national league team like Cincy, Atlanta, etc. first before picking the Twins. 

 

I think he'd be a great coach...

[Mike Sixel]

he should DH someplace, I think he's better at that than a lot of current options. In a pinch, he could play OF too......but not as a starting OF.

 

Really, really, really re-thinking my fandom of this club right now. At some point, how they do business has to matter.

[TheLeviathan]

I tend to be opposed to it as well, but the guy does hit lefties well.  Perhaps he has a true bench role with the team?  In that scenario I can be a little more optimistic.

 

Remember, the guy on the bench that treated platoons like an affront to the game is no longer there.  We might be able to think of guys fitting into more appropriate roles for the first time in a long time.

[big dog]

I tend to be opposed to it as well, but the guy does hit lefties well.  Perhaps he has a true bench role with the team?  In that scenario I can be a little more optimistic.

 

Remember, the guy on the bench that treated platoons like an affront to the game is no longer there.  We might be able to think of guys fitting into more appropriate roles for the first time in a long time.

True, but do you think platoon-dh is a role that Hunter is going to think is appropriate?  I doubt it.

[tobi0040]

Wolfson added this:

 

https://twitter.com/DarrenWolfson/status/535843250092146689

 

I think he still can hit. The bigger question is regarding his defense. The advanced metrics are very bad on him but some say those are not doing his actual performance justice. Then again, Fangraphs.com's fan scouting reports have been harsh on him as he has aged:

 

Hunter.png

 

My guess is Rasmus and Hunter both sign something in the 1-10 range.  Rasmus provided a slightly positive rating defensively in CF and is 28.   Hunters defensive ratings were very negative in a corner. 

 

Offensively, my money would be on Rasmus as well.

[tobi0040]

True, but do you think platoon-dh is a role that Hunter is going to think is appropriate?  I doubt it.

 

If he is open to a bench role, that would be great.  But if Michael Cuddyer is worthy of a qualifying offer, then a 2 year deal for $20M to start in the NL, someone will pay for Hunters name as well

[TheLeviathan]

True, but do you think platoon-dh is a role that Hunter is going to think is appropriate?  I doubt it.

 

Right, that's the catch and I honestly don't know how to answer that.

[Steven Buhr]

I think it would be a bad add, but I'm not going to jump off a cliff over it if it happens.

 

I figure that by mid season, either he and the Twins will have proven us all wrong about his abilities or the Twins will be out of contention and he'll be trade bait to a contender.

[Brandon]

With KC loosing Butler I think they would push harder for Hunter and letting him spend half his time at DH should appeal to him.  KC overachieved last year and is loosing a solid hitter and their best pitcher.  They are a 75-80 win team till they make moves which is close to where we are at this point.  While advanced metrics show his defense has declined, I don't think he is taking ad routes at this point and his arm is still strong while he has slowed a lot he can still move a little at least as fast as Parmelee.  So I suspect he can be close to adequate in LF.  

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

The sad thing is that as bad as Hunter's defense seems to be, it's still an improvement over Willingham and the infielders.

[Monkeypaws]

Torii can still hit though, certainly better than any of our current outfielders - I'm not adverse to him coming back at all. Never wanted him to leave in the first place.

[Seth Stohs]

I think it would be a bad add, but I'm not going to jump off a cliff over it if it happens.

 

I figure that by mid season, either he and the Twins will have proven us all wrong about his abilities or the Twins will be out of contention and he'll be trade bait to a contender.

 

I agree... I wouldn't, but I won't have a real huge problem if they do. I'm certainly not going to suddenly stop being a fan. 

[Winston Smith]

His defense is likely better than Arcia and Parmalee as well, which isn't saying much. If we needed a 4th OF/Dh type yes but we have a bunch of those the way it is.

What we need is some guys that can cover some ground and catch the ball, imo.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think it would be a bad add, but I'm not going to jump off a cliff over it if it happens.

 

I figure that by mid season, either he and the Twins will have proven us all wrong about his abilities or the Twins will be out of contention and he'll be trade bait to a contender.

But wouldn't a Hunter signing be evidence of a pretty big disconnect, one that the new manager hire was supposed to help address?

 

And I think your scenarios are pretty limited in scope.  If we're right about his abilities, he may not have much of a trade market.  Or we're right about his abilities, will the rookie manager keep running him out to the field anyway in deference to his leadership?  Especially if we are surprisingly in contention despite him.

[iTwins]

If it was up to me, I'd pass. Hunter is aging and eventually his bat is going to slip to below average. At that point in time he's effectively nothing more than a coach (bringing his "good clubhouse presence"). I'd like the Twins to think defensively when addressing the OF this offseason. With Hughes and Meyer (likely) on the staff, having a good defensive OF will be important.

[D. Hocking]

I think as Aaron says in the link above a lot of Torii's leadership perception is that the media loves him because he is always there for a good easy sound byte and he gives them a friendly smile and treats them as if they are buds.

 

I think Torii can bring energy when things are going well or on the verge of going well, but I also seem to remember when things were going down in 2007 he was not exactly a positive source.  Not that he was toxic, but I don't think he was exactly a leader that season.  I just remember the second half of the season, it seemed like in every town during road trip he was saying how "this is one of the few towns I can see myself playing".  I don't see him as the ultimate team player who would put being a mentor above his own interests.

 

That said, the main reason I would prefer not to sign him, is I would rather see someone who is part of  the future playing in the outfield, not this year's remnant of the past.  I understood why he left, and don't blame him, and would have welcomed him back, but I think that time has past.

[tobi0040]

I agree... I wouldn't, but I won't have a real huge problem if they do. I'm certainly not going to suddenly stop being a fan. 

 

Seth,

 

I am curious about the disconnect between you and Nick's comments from the 11/11 article:

 

"What should they be looking for in a prospective pickup at this position? Well, that also seems fairly clear. Considering that they fielded the worst defensive outfield in baseball this year, the Twins should really be seeking a player who can cover ground and provide some much-needed help for the pitching staff."

 

-Nick Nelson

 

It seems by you saying you would not have a huge problem if we sign Hunter, you don't agree that we should  make defense a priority in LF.  Or do you think Torii is still a good defender?

[tobi0040]

But wouldn't a Hunter signing be evidence of a pretty big disconnect, one that the new manager hire was supposed to help address?

 

 

All this noise about Molitor being this cerebral guy that sees things everyone else does not......then he pushes for a 39 year old Hunter. 

 

Disconnect seems like an under-statement to me.

[Steven Buhr]

But wouldn't a Hunter signing be evidence of a pretty big disconnect, one that the new manager hire was supposed to help address?

 

And I think your scenarios are pretty limited in scope.  If we're right about his abilities, he may not have much of a trade market.  Or we're right about his abilities, will the rookie manager keep running him out to the field anyway in deference to his leadership?  Especially if we are surprisingly in contention despite him.

True, I didn't go through all the scenarios. There are 4.

 

Hunter's good and the team is a contender: Target Field turns in to the fountain of youth and Hunter hits & plays a passable LF or the pitching is surprisingly good, even without terrific OF defense. In this case, there's not likely a trade unless someone like Rosario has lit it up so much at AAA that he pushes Hunter aside anyway, and Hunter is dealt.

 

Hunter is good and the team isn't: Hunter gets traded for some decent value and a young OF gets a look the second half of the season.

 

Hunter is bad and so is the team: By mid season, you're looking to give Rosario, Buxton or some other young OF the innings and ABs, so Hunter is traded for whatever you can get or is waived.

 

Hunter is bad, but the team is surprisingly good anyway: I don't think Molitor will continue to send him out there if it jeopardizes a chance to actually continue to contend in to August. I also don't think Terry Ryan would stand pat without adding a better option either by promotion or trade.

 

Again, I would not bring him back. I'm not thrilled with adding any over-the-hill OF on a 1 year deal, for that matter. I'd look at it the same way I want them looking at starting pitching: either go get one of the best available or find a reclamation project with high upside you can get for a reasonable deal with at least 2nd-3rd year team options. If you can't find one or the other, roll with the guys you have until Rosario or Buxton is promoted or Sano comes up and you use either he or Plouffe in LF.

 

I would hope Molitor saw how the Bartlett/Kubel reunion tour went last year and wouldn't make the same mistake by adding a former star in the hopes he would help in the clubhouse. That decision may well have been the one that ultimately got his predecessor fired.

 

Then again, I don't think Hunter is as washed up as those two were, either.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Hunter is bad and so is the team: By mid season, you're looking to give Rosario, Buxton or some other young OF the innings and ABs, so Hunter is traded for whatever you can get or is waived.

 

Hunter is bad, but the team is surprisingly good anyway: I don't think Molitor will continue to send him out there if it jeopardizes a chance to actually continue to contend in to August. I also don't think Terry Ryan would stand pat without adding a better option either by promotion or trade.

But haven't we all been thinking that TR and Molitor wouldn't bring Hunter aboard in the first place?  If they do the opposite action there, how can we then assume they will trade him when necessary?

 

Hunter coming here would not be for a similar price or role to Kubel, Bartlett, etc.  He's going to be pushing $10 mil a year and starting in the OF.  I don't think he would necessarily be cast aside so easily.

 

For that matter, why are we assuming the Twins would only sign him to a one-year deal?

[clone52]

Wolfson added this:

 

https://twitter.com/DarrenWolfson/status/535843250092146689

 

I think he still can hit. The bigger question is regarding his defense. The advanced metrics are very bad on him but some say those are not doing his actual performance justice. Then again, Fangraphs.com's fan scouting reports have been harsh on him as he has aged:

 

Hunter.png

 

Who was mentoring our outfielders last year?  No one was really there to teach guys like Arcia, Hicks, Santana the ropes in the outfield.  I don't know that their was anyone on the coaching staff who was a great mentor for outfielders either.  Sure, Torii's defense is sub par nowadays, but thats physical limitations, not mental.  Hopefully some of his mental stuff can rub off on our young guys (which hopefully include Buxton and Rosario sometime next year)

[Otto von Ballpark]

I am not completely against the idea of Hunter.  He has sported a very consistent bat.  I think you would need to have some insight that would tell you the defensive metrics (and the fans' eyes) have been wrong the last couple years, though.  I don't trust the Twins have that insight, at least not at this time.  (Preferably you'd also want him on a team-friendly deal.)

[tobi0040]

Who was mentoring our outfielders last year?  No one was really there to teach guys like Arcia, Hicks, Santana the ropes in the outfield.  I don't know that their was anyone on the coaching staff who was a great mentor for outfielders either.  Sure, Torii's defense is sub par nowadays, but thats physical limitations, not mental.  Hopefully some of his mental stuff can rub off on our young guys (which hopefully include Buxton and Rosario sometime next year)

 

When you have a roster of only 25 guys and 9 starting position players.  Is the mentor role worth 11% of payroll, 11% of your at bats, some percentage of balls hit their way?

 

My prejudice is that the mentor, rah rah thing is over-rated in sports in general.  Probably the least relevant in baseball.

 

I also would think this is a good idea if we didn't have a 23 year old DH that needs reps.