nicksaviking

No but there would have been plenty to predict they would have outperformed opening day starters Correia, Pelfrey and perhaps even Gibson. Even if they would not have outperformed them, there really should have been next to no concern about Pelfrey and Correia losing out in what was clearly destined to be another losing season. Winning doens't happen until the young guys get their feet wet.

I'd like to think so, but this team continues to opporate like pitching prospects are delicate flowers that can't possibly handle the MLB spotlight unless the team has no other options. They have no problem throwing AAAA guys to the wolves, but if it's an honest to God prospect, they seem inclined to find any excuse to resist letting them take their lumps at the MLB level. This needs to stop and signing more Kevin Correia's to multi-year deals isn't going to encourage the front office to let the (hopefully) future arms sink or swim. This team isn't cutting bait on a starter in thier first year of a multi-year deal even if the prospect is ready. I'd love a one year deal for a Justin Masterson, I'd hate a three year deal for a Brandon McCarthy.

But it won't be Gibson or Nolasco losing a rotation spot to a new free agent. It will be Meyer and May. If I thought for a second that Nolasco actually had to win a job in spring training I'd be on board, but no one really thinks that. There was no reason May or Meyer couldn't have competed for a rotation spot out of spring training last year, but they were never given a chance because of all the "depth" this team thought it had at the position.

I agree. I guess my point was that I feel that the free agents who are available and could be viewed as a top of the rotation option, will almost certainly turn out to be albatrosses due to the idea that they have all put a lot of innings on their arms, almost certainly the best innings of their career are already gone. Hughes performance going forward has little bearing on what I want this club to do with the pitching staff.

Well I think the second half of 2014-early 2016 is different than the previous years, or likely the years that follow. We are finally at the point where we can expect to see the prospects that we have been promised for so long. I think the feeling is that the Twins didn't have the young talent capable of getting a shot from 2011-2013, that's when they should have been signing the better quality free agents to 2-3 year deals. I'm glad to have Hughes, I'm not glad to have Nolasco. Signing another Hughes, which in turn blocks May or Meyer would be acceptable, signing another Nolasco would not be. I don't trust the front office to identify another Hughes though, as they have a much longer track record of finding disappointment on the free agent market. If the prospects we've been waiting for don't pan out over the next season and a half, then it's time to recommence the call for the team to get more active in free agency.

But because Shields career IP is so impressive, he has nearly 1,800 IP in eight years. He's no longer missing bats, he's getting roughed up in the post season and he's turning 33. Shields was a better pitcher and his overall career will likely be better, but I'd rather have Hughes going forward. I wouldn't want that next James Shields contract. Perhaps his disappointing post season will help limit expecations and he won't get an unreasonable contract, but odds are he'll still get one that the buyer regrets.

I do let myself get mesmerized by them though. Elite strikeout numbers at the minor league level seem to be the biggest indicator that a guy will be able to hold up at the front of the rotation at the MLB level. The odds still might not be in their favor, but it's exponetially more likely than the kind of pitchers we've been used to seeing around here most of the last decade. You almost always know exactly what you're getting with the low BB soft tossers, that is, stop gap AAAA pitchers, most of whom will flame out within a season or two. It's nice to reward Pino, Darnell, Walters, DeVries, Diamond, blah, blah, blah for their AAA accomplishments, but it comes with a price. These guys should not be getting promoted over guys with promise like Meyer or May when we already know how their story will end.

It seemed to me that Meyer proved he was better than at minimum 3/5ths of the MLB rotation all year long. This team doesn't always let the younger, more talented player get his chance. They seem much more concerned about doing what is "fair" for the existig vet. I think the title of the thread is a bit off actually. The Twins haven't largely "rolled" with the young players they had in house in 15 years. They have seemed determined to "roll" with signing low ceiling, cheap stop-gap vets. They need to stop that ASAP. Go big, or stay home, but let's not pretend this team will ever go big. The Brandon McCarthys of the world need not apply. Besides, has anyone really looked at the free agent market this year? Aside from a couple of top end pitchers, it is sad and pathetic. There are not many upgrades, and next to nobody I'd want on anything more than a 1 year deal. Because it is so baren, those guys who may be any bit enticing are going to get overpaid in money, but more importantly years. Yuk. I've always been a free agency advocate, but not this year. This year is full of remorse and regrets.

I would say that Schaffer is a lock for the 25-man next year but I said the same about Alex Presley last off season.

I want to see Guerra retained, I'm still waiting for the payoff form the Santana trade.

Not sure if you heard, but Gardy was fired. We may see a more modern baseball roster.

Probably, but then that means they aren't taking offense seriously.

I wonder how this pesimistic attitude translates during manager interviews. Quite well I'm sure. If they are going to refrain from spending the extra $40 million or so on free agents because they want to play the young guys, it seems the obvious answer as to how not alienate the fans is to declare that the savings is going toward lowering TF beer prices to $2.50 a brew.

I don't think anyone has a problem with Steinbach. Most of us think this team needs a different perspective after 30 years of trying to play 1980's baseball. We have doubts that keeping the same personell will significantly change philosophy. I think many of us think Molitor, Steinbach and most of the crew are more than capable baseball coaches and managers, but perhaps they just aren't a fit for a club that needs drastic and dynamic change.

I'd like them to try to keep Iberra, Guerra, Salcedo, maybe Gonzalez and I suppose with the OF problems at the MLB level, Ortiz. At this point Beresford seems like another guy that will get in the way of positioning for Polanco, Rosario, Michael, Mejia and Goodrum. Though, it's still possible none of those guys actually have the potential we'd like, maybe Berseford is/will be better. I'm sure the club is most interested in keeping the catchers though, even considering neither Rodriguez or Rohlfing will likely ever get a chance to sniff the MLB.

With Ryan's previous comments about how he uses Goin when necessary, I actually have concerns. His comments sounded to me that he uses Goin when Goin tells him something he likes or agrees with. I don't think this half-measured approach will work; I think you need to be willing to commit to it even when it gives you data you don't want to hear.

Another great articl Parker, I can't wait to see which sites pick up on this one! The paragraphs discussing Gardy being resistant or having to be convinced to use infield shifts is why this club needs to be careful about selecting a new manager. After all, is there really a point of sending an analytics guy with the team if the manager is going to drag his feet regarding the suggestions for improvement? For the most part, I don't think these analytics are something you can pick and chose what you want to adhere to. I think you have to either buy into it or ignore it completely. You can't begrudgingly use infield shifts but still insist on bringing in a soft tosser from the pen who tries to hit the outside corners.

For some reason there seems to be a minimum 12 month delay of recovery for concussions in Minnesota. It doesn't seem to occur elsewhere, maybe it's something in the water. Normally I'd be right with John on this topic, but perhaps Buxton needs shake the cobwebs out for a bit drinking some of the water polluted with factory runoff in industrial upstate NY befor coming West.

No I agree, my sarcasm did not come across well.

I agree, but more sane options probably wouldn't throw the Twins front office under the bus if they got snubbed as it might come across as detrimental to future opportunities. Guillen doesn't seem to have those kind of hesitations.

Plus they both bring that Latin flavor to the coaching staff that Ryan claimed to want.

Your not suggesting that picking and choosing when to use SABR theories based simply on if they fit your already concrete opinions is antithetical to their success? It's almost like you think you either embrace them or you don't, otherwise they do not do you much good.

I don't want Ozzie Guillen, but I do want his opinion. I have no doubt that if he gets asked by a reporter that he will honestly say if the Twins gave him a fair shot. I'd at least like to get a reading of the authenticity of the "outside" search.

I agree with Mike, DM seems much more likely to continue "old school" baseball tactics. With Molitor, we at least know that he was the driving force behind the Twins reluctant usage of defensive shifts. I do think DM likely would bring some energy to the club and likely be a motivator for the young guys. Still that will fade over time. These better not be the only two candidates. Ryan said he'd look outside the organization and implied that Latin managers would be considered. I don't care if the search goes into December, keep looking. These two likely both would be nice managers, but this needs to be done right, and as there are 29 other teams with countless employees who may be managerial candidates, the odds are pretty slim that the option that would be most successful here is actually in house.

Good research. Not surprised about Rochester with May and Meyer. Even the soft tossing AAAA types seem to do well with strikeouts. I'm not surprised Ft. Myers is low. NB surprises me though. As far as ERA and WHIP go they are average and I would have guessed they were above average yet the strikeouts are above average and I'd have guessed the opposite. CR also surprises me as those starters dodn't seem to miss many bats, I'm guessing the releivers are significantly helping that rating, only Thorpe could manage a respectable K rate in that rotation.