ewen21

Liked for the Warren Zevon avatar (I will read the bio later)

Yes, and besides, Sano and Buxton have been healthy but they simply are not performing well enough to be with the big club. I have heard that these two being injured hurt the team although it is their performance that hurt the team a lot more

That is all very cute, but we know what happened last year.

Not meaning to be argumentative. WIth that, I will pull myself out of here for a few days Take care

That one game "playoff" might be the post season to you. It isn't to me. That game was only a chance to make it to the post season.

You seriously don't believe the buyer teams who express interest don't also express any concerns about the player they are interested in acquiring? You seriously don't think they try to drive the price down? I only expressed only ONE WAY how they might do that. I didn't even bring up his "clutchness" or lack of it. I simply responded to a poster who dismissed it as nothing. I am saying it MIGHT NOT be nothing to the buyer teams. The stuff you put in quotes is your own fabrication. Please don't try to pawn that junk off on me. Thanks

That was never in dispute. It is a statistical fact that players (by and large) have worse "close and late" numbers but in the case of Dozier it is rather significant. He is also a veteran with no postseason experience. That can be a factor working against as well. I am only saying what the other side of the market is going to do. They will accentuate negatives as a means to counter the Twins. I am not going to say "other teams should want Dozier because..."

I never said the negotiation hinged on those splits. It was only an example of ways Dozier's value can be further deflated. As I said in the last post, there wasn't a market for him last year. There isn't much of a market this year and he now only a two month rental. I guess we can sell the "Dozier gets hot in the second half angle" but then that is only lip service. What team is going to part with anything much by pinning their hopes on that?

Yes, this opinions are subjective, but you are dealing in absolutes when you assert the data as completely irrelevant in the negotiation process. Not sure how you can do that. You are essentially saying it will have no affect at all and I don't see how there is a 0% chance those numbers don't get looked at or considered. I surely want to get as much for Dozier as we can, but we didn't get many bites last year and that was when he was slightly more than a two month rental

I am not pretending to have a crystal ball. Nowhere have I predicted what he might do in the second half because that is pie in the sky nothing. In this situation, I stick to the facts. Teams possibly interested in Dozier will use whatever they can to get him for less. If these numbers are avaiilable to laypeople like us, don't you think office executives who do this for a living witl use myriad stats (these included) during the negotiation process? Put all that aside, and just look at where he is now. This was supposed to be the year for him to play for a mulityear contract. If he gets injured or doesn't have a very strong second half he isn't going to get the deal he was hoping for before this season. NOt even close.

YOu can have your own opinion on this. I simply presented the facts. This is potential leverage against the Twins in any negotiations because to a contender they want to push his value down. It is the art of the deal. On the underlined, I know full well that close and late numbers are usually slightly lower, but it isn't in this case. His numbers are SIGNIFICANLY lower than his output in other situations. Not just a little bit, a lotta bit. Am I somehow wrong in these points?

I did not use the word "choker". I simply presented the facts. My main point is that Dozier's performance in these situations can not be called an anomaly and in trade negotiations they will look for any way to undercut his value. These statistics are out there and they are not going to be ignored. You can draw your own conclusions.

It isn't important that you agree with me or not. I simply presented the facts and these facts will more than likely be brought into the equation during any kinds of deadline deals.

This is the kind of thing, quite frankly, that does this forum no good. You didn't even look at the links I have provided. The links I posted highlighted his CAREER NUMBERS so what you said above isn't even what I was talking about. I don't mind when people disagree with me, but I do have trouble with what you just did. I will try again and this time please give me some feedback on what these numbers say to you: CAREER NUMBERS, close and late: https://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats.cgi?full=1&params=clutc%7CLate%20%26%20Close%7Cdoziebr01%7Cbat%7CAB%7C CAREER NUMBERS, Margin > 4 R https://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats.cgi?full=1&params=clutc%7CMargin%20%3E%204%20R%7Cdoziebr01%7Cbat%7CAB%7C

Dozier has been consistently horrible in close and late situations: https://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats.cgi?full=1&params=clutc%7CLate%20%26%20Close%7Cdoziebr01%7Cbat%7CAB%7C On the other hand, when the run margin in greater than 4 runs he is much MUCH better: https://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats.cgi?full=1&params=clutc%7CMargin%20%3E%204%20R%7Cdoziebr01%7Cbat%7CAB%7C There is enough statistical evidence to destroy any dismissiveness about how he performs in these situations. And if anyone thinks playoff teams are unaware of these statistics or are going to ignore them in trade negotiations they need to think again. This is more about the Twins than it is Dozier. He could have done better this year to command more value and demand and he choked in that area. Not the Twins fault.

He has been on awful teams he seems to always heat up as soon as the season is lost I am tired of his act as well. He ticked me off with his comments about CIsco bunting on us early in the season and did it again after Escobar was hit by Porcello. What the heck is this all about? Is this supposed to be "breaking chops" which allegedly equates to "keeping the clubhouse loose" i.e "leadership"? Not funny (especially in front of the camera) when the incident was still fresh.

Still not sure what the trouble is. But OK....life goes on

YES, we actually are in agreement here. Remember the Dozier thread last year? Seems hardly worth it to have a reprisal of what happened there. I would be interested to know what kind of prospect we'd get. I actually agree with beckmt. Hard to imagine doing much better than the QO. THat isn't what I want the Twins to do because I feel Dozier has to be moved at this point. He is not a fit here

The fact is Dozier couldn't fetch much in last year's market and he is going to fetch probably less this year. We saw the offer last year. What can we honestly expect when the guy has had a down year?

What troubles you about my post? Be specific please and I will answer you.

The real question for them would be how much better is Dozier going to make us? and Do we do a one year rental on a player who is having a down year? Generally speaking, the team dealing such a player is not in a position of strength.

Dozier will give us very little in return. He is 31, having a down year, there are a lot of good second baseman in the game and he is just a rental. Sorry to say, but teams aren't lining up for him and we are not in a position of strength

ESPECIALLY not us right now.

I am just hoping he continues on this recent trend. He's looked pretty decent lately. Before this season started, I was telling anyone who would listen to watch Kepler and Polanco. Those were "my guys" going into this season. I am expecting Max to be over ,260 with 20 something home runs when this year is done

Not sure where I heard it first, but I feel the same way. Kepler at his best reminds me of Morneau a little, if Morneau was a 20 HR guy