Lewis, Kirilloff Provide High Character, Huge Potential

I used to be a children's minister, and I'm married to a special education teacher, so I pay attention to how people treat little kids and those on the margins of society.

When I saw the Kernels in Clinton a few weeks ago, I was struck that Lewis was the one guy on the team that asked the bat boy his name, told them his, bumped knuckles and asked them a question. Then, when they switched teams mid-game, he did the same with the second kid, who also had a physical limitation. Nice job, Royce.

I am impressed.  Nice insight.  Get them to the bigs ASAP!

It's going to be great to watch these two as they move up each level. Obviously we're a few years down the road but it will be interesting where Kiriloff will play with the Twins outfield seemingly set with Rosario, Buxton and Kepler. 

There's little wonder that Kiriloff "knows how to hit."   Unless I'm completely off base, he's the grown-up version of the little home-schooled kid I saw seated at a school desk beside the batting cages at the facility his father owned outside of Pittsburgh whenever I took some of my players there in the off season.  

I always feel a bit weird about the "character" concept. I get that it’s a thing. We’ve all worked jobs and played sports and have realized how important personality and how you handle yourself can be. Talent isn’t everything and emotional intelligence matters etc.

 

That said, it always seems like character is applied to people who fit a general concept of what a player should be. Goes to church, nice family, leadership skills, quiet and modest etc. It implicitly indicates that other players lack character or are somehow deficient because they like to go out, are loud and brash etc. I guess I just think the correlation we draw between high-character and doing well is not as strong as we make it – perhaps because we like the narrative and perhaps because it’s subjective so we only apply it to people with talent (no one lauds Drew Butera’s character because he just isn’t that good).

 

There’s another reason I always feel uncomfortable with that word. I hesitate to even make this point because it may be divisive but I’ve (unscientifically) noticed that when we apply character, we tend to do it with white players. I’m not calling anyone racist or anything, I think it’s normal. Our concept of Morality tends to be driven by cultural norms from movies and Americana – the aw shucks John Wayne/Audie Murphy-type who just gets ‘er done and is kind and polite. That cultural figure has almost always been white – just like Hispanic characters and black characters have been portrayed in other ways. When we bring a cultural concept like morality or good leadership into things, we’re going to bring in that understanding too.

 

This maybe got a bit discombobulated but that tends to happen with this subject because it’s uncomfortable for us straight white dudes. I just always cringe when I hear people talking about character when describing a prospect because it just feels like implicit coding for something else and it feels uneven.

I agree to a degree.  Character and leadership sometimes get overblown.  Sure it is good to have a fun loose clubhouse with nice guys.  Getting along and playing for each other is better than an I'm in it for me divisive clubhouse but most of these guys are "good" with high baseball IQ's.  So yeah its nice and all but in the end talent wins.

As for clubhouse leaders I don't think the White narrative is completely correct.  I mean Kirby was the Twins high character leadership guy for along time as was Tori Hunter.    Maybe there are more Caucasian players with those qualities I don't know but you kind of either have it or you don't regardless of skin color.

I always feel a bit weird about the "character" concept. I get that it’s a thing. We’ve all worked jobs and played sports and have realized how important personality and how you handle yourself can be. Talent isn’t everything and emotional intelligence matters etc.

 

That said, it always seems like character is applied to people who fit a general concept of what a player should be. Goes to church, nice family, leadership skills, quiet and modest etc. It implicitly indicates that other players lack character or are somehow deficient because they like to go out, are loud and brash etc. I guess I just think the correlation we draw between high-character and doing well is not as strong as we make it – perhaps because we like the narrative and perhaps because it’s subjective so we only apply it to people with talent (no one lauds Drew Butera’s character because he just isn’t that good).

 

There’s another reason I always feel uncomfortable with that word. I hesitate to even make this point because it may be divisive but I’ve (unscientifically) noticed that when we apply character, we tend to do it with white players. I’m not calling anyone racist or anything, I think it’s normal. Our concept of Morality tends to be driven by cultural norms from movies and Americana – the aw shucks John Wayne/Audie Murphy-type who just gets ‘er done and is kind and polite. That cultural figure has almost always been white – just like Hispanic characters and black characters have been portrayed in other ways. When we bring a cultural concept like morality or good leadership into things, we’re going to bring in that understanding too.

 

This maybe got a bit discombobulated but that tends to happen with this subject because it’s uncomfortable for us straight white dudes. I just always cringe when I hear people talking about character when describing a prospect because it just feels like implicit coding for something else and it feels uneven.

Thanks, Thejac Kemp. And as another straight white dude (who's working on being gray-haired to boot), I think you're spot on. I try to be very sensitive to that dynamic, but I know that I still carry my implicit biases.

I've cringed a few times when our language on Twins Daily has described a few (read, often Latino) players with less than complimentary terms and wondered if the same descriptors would get used about other (read, Anglo) players. To take it to a different setting, I recently send a message to the host of my favorite syndicated radio show, naming that I thought it inappropriate that on their Cinco de Mayo show featuring "South of the Border" classic country music, a disproportionate number of songs featured the stereotype of Mexicans only caring about drinking and partying. I've not gotten a response.

I've not yet had the courage to raise that question on TD, at least in part because I think the moderators do a great job and that people are generally pretty respectful, but sometimes it's the subtle stuff that's most damaging, just because we don't realize it's happening.

(But as an aside, I did actually hear Dan or Corey (Corey, I think) brag on Drew Butera's character last night, so I'll share it as a good story. Apparently Butera befriended a kid with cancer and told the kid that if the kid beat the cancer, he would dye his hair whatever color the kid wanted. The kid did, and a few weeks ago they went to the salon so that Drew could get pink hair.) 

I'll ignore, thanks. I've got nothing... Just... 

And ditto -- I'm glad to go elsewhere if appropriate. I think you posted this while I was writing my response. I do appreciate the work you do as moderators, and I think that all in all TD is great in working with these dynamics. A primary reason I come back regularly is the civility that is demonstrated here.

I'll laud Drew Butera's character.  Great dude.

https://www.mlb.com/royals/news/drew-butera-dons-pink-hair-for-cancer-free-fan/c-277280556

You don't stay in the bigs on just your lofty .201 career batting average.

I'll stay away from the race issue but every time I see or hear that someone is a great ball player but an even better person I cringe a little and in probably at least three different ways.   

1.   Probably just not true if you do the math.   Lewis as a top pick among tens of thousands or more of guys that want to be a top pick means that to be a better person than a player means he is a better person than those tens of thousands. or more.   Maybe he actually is that one in a billion guy but both he and Kirilloff?   Probably not.  I mean I might be a better person than a baseball player but I think I am a decent person and a not very good baseball player so making that kind of statement for the run of the mill guy or player might actually be true but probably not true of the less than1 percenters of great athletes.

2.  You mostly here about it regarding athletes.    I rarely hear anyone say "So and so  is a great (doctor, lawyer, accountant, teacher, mechanic, sports writer) but an even better person.

3.  Aside from the points above the ideas really just don't mesh.    Its like saying "That strawberry is a great fruit but its an even better strawberry"     Ok, its not quite like that but maybe a thread for analogies to the great athlete but even better person would be kind of fun.

How did this thread get derailed from these two kicking butt to wild speculation of character of former players?    Cant wait to see what these guys do in Ft. Myers!

I don't think I could say it better than AZTwin that this discussion got completely derailed. This was definitely not the discussion I was expecting to read.

Back to their talent and topic at hand. What does everything think about these two being selected to play in the Arizona Fall League? Would this be a typical stage for them to go against the better talent in that league?

How did this thread get derailed from these two kicking butt to wild speculation of character of former players?    Cant wait to see what these guys do in Ft. Myers!

Well, the post is about their character and their potential so its really not that great a leap to speculate and draw comparisons.    Just their performance and potential can be found in scouting reports and the daily minor league roundups.     My post was probably more critical than it should have been.   I cheer for the team and really prefer to do so when I think the players on the team are good guys and both of these appear to be so.

Seth mentioned character multiple times, and in the title... And stressed it. That's how it became about character, and not just on the field stuff.

He did but the part that I don't understand is people making this a race issue. Isn't Royce's father African American? Which makes him half White and half African American, correct? I find it ridiculous to hint or state that people commenting only talk about players with "High Character" when discussing White players.

Fair. I thought you were asking how it became about charter at all. I am not touching the race thing in this thread...

And I apologize because I didn't mean to direct that toward you. It was more of just a general post toward some of the comments made earlier.