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  • Who Will Be The Twins' 4th And 5th Outfielders?


    Michael Bates

    It’s not likely to make a huge difference in the long run between whether the Twins win in 2016 or not, but the battle for the fourth and fifth outfield spots is shaping up to be interesting just a few games into spring training. With Byron Buxton the presumptive center fielder on Opening Day, Eddie Rosario in left and Miguel Sano in right, and the inevitable twelve-man pitching staff, Minnesota has room for one full- time outfielder and maybe a utility guy to come north.

    Let’s handicap the field at this point, assuming that two guys out of this group make the club:

    Image courtesy of Brad Rempel-USA TODAY Sports

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    Ryan Sweeney

    Sweeney didn’t play in 2015, but is coming back as a 31-year-old. Once a top prospect in the White Sox organization (and considered one of the best BP hitters in baseball history), Sweeney never really clicked. Still, he brings a veteran presence (and we know how much the Twins value that), plays center field, and hits from the left side (to complement Buxton from the right). Through five games, he’s hit .333/.500/.400 in 16 plate appearances. Certainly, we shouldn’t take spring training performance at face value, but he’s also earning rave reviews according to Mike Berardino:

    https://twitter.com/MikeBerardino/status/706907508674273281

    Chances he'll come north? 75%. Almost nothing would shock me less. Sweeney’s the kind of guy the Twins could fall in love with, and I think one of the next two guys will flop hard enough that the Twins will want to keep him around. Not that that’s a bad thing. I think Sweeney’s still got the potential to be a useful ballplayer.

    Danny Santana

    Santana has the most plate appearances on the Twins so far through six spring training games. And while he’s only hitting .111/.105/.278, it’s clear that the Twins are heavily invested in him winning the job. It looks like Santana might not be willing to cooperate, but they’ll give him every opportunity to fail. And I do mean every single one, as he’s out of options. Plus, as a switch hitter who can play shortstop (in theory), he has added value. If he keeps this slow start up, however, perhaps he’d be a guy you could slip through waivers.

    Chances he'll come north? 60%. Far higher than his performance has earned.

    Oswaldo Arcia

    Left-handed, with incredible power, Arcia is a streaky hitter who runs unbelievably hot and cold. He would almost certainly be better served by a starting role, which would allow him to find his groove. Barring an injury, that’s not likely to happen. Arcia’s already made a bit of news by walking three times in one game over the weekend, something he’s done only once in the majors, and said afterwards that being more patient is a point of emphasis for him. We’ll see. Like Santana, he is out of options, and seems unlikely to slip through waivers. He’s been in the Twins’ doghouse for so long, however, that they may not care.

    Chances he'll come north? 40%. His power is undeniable, but the defense has been awful (though he's made some impressive defensive plays so far, he can’t play center field, and is seen as a disappointment. My guess is that either Santana or Arcia will get put on waivers. Santana’s positional flexibility gives him the edge, and if Sweeney makes the club, he and Arcia are both left-handed.

    Carlos Quentin

    Kind of the right-handed version of Arcia, but Quentin also has that veteran label that the Twins have loved in the past. He didn’t play last year, but has nine years in the league hitting .252/.347/.484 (120 OPS+). He’s also like Coach from Cheers (I’m an old person), in that it’s virtually impossible not to hit him with a pitch and he is incredibly delicate, topping 100 games played just three times in his career. The reviews of his performance so far are a little mixed:

    https://twitter.com/MikeBerardino/status/707252883000004608

    Quentin offers a little versatility in that he can also play first base, but God knows the Twins have enough guys who can do that right now, between Mauer, Park, Sano and Vargas.

    Chances he'll come north? 12.5%. Something would have to happen to one of the other 1B/DH/corner OF guys for Quentin to make the team, especially as a right-handed bat. His other best hope is that the Twins decide to send Buxton to Rochester for a month.

    Darin Mastroianni

    If Santana and Arcia had options left, I’d bet the Twins would find some way to keep Mastroianni around. He’s able to play all three outfield spots and is an accomplished base stealer. He also had a previous go-around with the Twins that ended in injury woes. He’s not a good player, but fits fine as a below-average backup outfielder.

    Chances he'll come north? 6.3%. Mastroianni is just behind too many people on the depth chart, and isn’t good enough to be more than an emergency option at this point.

    Max Kepler

    He’s a great young prospect who can handle center field for now, has tremendous plate discipline and good mid-range power to go with a strong hit tool. Kepler’s likely to be the best position prospect in the Twins’ minor league system at the start of the year. He’s had three singles in nine plate appearances so far.

    Chances he'll come North? 6.3%. There’s simply no chance of Kepler making this team unless Buxton doesn’t or someone gets hurt. The Twins need him to play everyday, and keeping him in a reserve role will stall the development of one of their future linchpins.

    Others

    Joe Benson is a 28 year old who has hit .202/.288/.302 at Triple-A. He’ll be depth at Rochester.

    No one short of Miguel Sano has Adam Brett Walker’s power, but his complete inability to control the strike zone means that he’ll spend almost all of 2016 in the minors. He’ll have to make incredible adjustments to find any success in the Majors.

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    Maybe Vargas should be in the bench bat discussion. I do see value in having him ready at AAA when needed for injury replacement. I also see value in utilizing his option and having him on the 25 man roster at times. Nunez, Santana and Arcia are out of options. If they are the bench, one will go when a 13th pitcher is needed.

     

    I also wonder if the Twins would consider moving Sano to 1B when a defensive replacement in RF might be used. It keeps his bat in the game and strengthens the defense in RF. Maybe he will be an adequate RF and it won't be necessary.

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    There is no scenario where Nunez does not make this team. Vargas is out of options and is very likely getting cut. Santana likely stays no matter what; Arcia/Quentin seems to be in question, though. Quentin is turning heads now with his professional plate appearances and approach. Still, that's correct - he does not have a very good track record in terms of staying on the field. 

    Edited by DrNeau
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    http://www.startribune.com/twins-day-at-camp-may-running-out-of-chances-to-start/371895471/

     

    "Danny Santana is day-to-day because of inflammation in his left wrist. He injured the wrist swinging in the batting cage. The Twins hope he can return Wednesday."

    I'm gonna say he comes back, goes 3-4 with a double, plays a few more games, has a couple good ones, several 0-fors, then goes to the 15 day DL to start the season.  If there are no injuries, he'll go to the 60 day.  He doesn't leave the organization, and he doesn't sniff the waiver wire.

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    Kepler has a .280 lifetime minor league average and hasn't even hit AAA yet.  He has 41 stolen bases in 6 seasons with 13 sac flies.

     

    Santana has a lifetime .276 minor league average and has played in AAA already.  He has 124 stolen bases and 23 sac flies.  Hell his MLB average after two seasons is still .278 even after last season.

     

    What about Kepler's one AA season where he virtually had the same average (.322 vs .319) as Santana did in his MLB season prove your "better stick" theory?  I think Santana offers more to start the season and runs faster.  He also has proven he is capable of providing sac flies when needed.  Things may change as May and June roll around.

     

    Are these valid points?

    no. these aren't Valid points. But, I would keep santana over Kepler if its being a bench player. if the Twins brought up Kepler to come off the bench i would protest every single home game at the stadium. -already have a 20 game package if i need to protest.........You can't compare Keplers 2015 to Santanas 2014. Santana had a CRAZY BABIP and was due to regress. and his .830 is OPS wasn't near Keplers .950

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    There is no scenario where Nunez does not make this team. Vargas is out of options and is very likely getting cut. Santana likely stays no matter what; Arcia/Quentin seems to be in question, though. Quentin is turning heads now with his professional plate appearances and approach. Still, that's correct - he does not have a very good track record in terms of staying on the field.

    Vargas can be optioned to AAA
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    Vargas can be optioned to AAA

    Oh... I thought Arcia, Santana, and Vargas were each out of options? Well, good to know about Vargas. He's not performing well at all this spring, and will not make the team. Still, he has some talent. Hope he can pull it together. 

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    It just makes sense for the Twins to preserve assets. Giving away Arcia and Santana for nothing would be throwing away tremendous investments that undoubtedly have value, even if not fully realized. Bringing them north for a month or even two to see if they can reach their potential is a low risk maneuver in the long run.

     

     

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    This is going to be an interesting watch. Especially since Rosario could pull a Santana 2.0 and NOT be a surefire left-fielder. The vets will try and pull a spot (which means the Twins have to find 40-man places). Overall, the fight for bench positions may be strong this spring. Will it be Murphy (who could play fulltime at Rochester) or Hicks. Nunez or Santana or any of the other guys, if they step up. Arcia and Vargas to stay or go. Sweeney, Mastro, Quentin -- major league money looks much better than AAAA salaries. The only surefire lock in the outfield would seem to be Sano. Buxton NEEDS to win the job. Kepler could sneak in. Santana is in the roster fight of his life. Arcia could be cut...and if he plays badly in spring, the Twins may catch a break and get to keep him down on the farm for another season. The BENCH IS IN FLUX two weeks into spring training!

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    This is going to be an interesting watch. Especially since Rosario could pull a Santana 2.0 and NOT be a surefire left-fielder. 

    Honestly, I'm not sure Rosario would have to pull a Santana to show he's not a sure fire LF (or starter at all).  He wasn't nearly the offensive force Santana was when Santana posted the unsustainable BABIP in 2014.

     

    21 LF in baseball had 450 or more PAs.

     

    His OBP was like .289.  20th out of 21.

     

    He had a 98 wRC+.  That tied him with Revere for 16th.

     

    And he also had a fairly high BABIP which will need to be watched (not 2014 Santana high, but still high). 

     

    Having said that, he finished tied for 10th out of 21 in WAR. So if he walks a bit more, Ks a bit less, even a drop in BABIP won't hurt him too much.  Defense has to stay awesome.

    Edited by jimmer
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    This is going to be an interesting watch. Especially since Rosario could pull a Santana 2.0 and NOT be a surefire left-fielder. The vets will try and pull a spot (which means the Twins have to find 40-man places). Overall, the fight for bench positions may be strong this spring. Will it be Murphy (who could play fulltime at Rochester) or Hicks. Nunez or Santana or any of the other guys, if they step up. Arcia and Vargas to stay or go. Sweeney, Mastro, Quentin -- major league money looks much better than AAAA salaries. The only surefire lock in the outfield would seem to be Sano. Buxton NEEDS to win the job. Kepler could sneak in. Santana is in the roster fight of his life. Arcia could be cut...and if he plays badly in spring, the Twins may catch a break and get to keep him down on the farm for another season. The BENCH IS IN FLUX two weeks into spring training!

    huge difference between Santana and Rosario. Santana had a BABIP over .400 and was due to regress. the only thing with rosario is will those triples mostly turn to doubles. I think he only gets 7 or 8 triples but more doubles. Murphy will be in MLB. him and Suzuki should split ABs, from what i hear Murphy > Suzuki with the glove

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    Kepler has a .280 lifetime minor league average and hasn't even hit AAA yet.  He has 41 stolen bases in 6 seasons with 13 sac flies.

     

    Santana has a lifetime .276 minor league average and has played in AAA already.  He has 124 stolen bases and 23 sac flies.  Hell his MLB average after two seasons is still .278 even after last season.

     

    What about Kepler's one AA season where he virtually had the same average (.322 vs .319) as Santana did in his MLB season prove your "better stick" theory?  I think Santana offers more to start the season and runs faster.  He also has proven he is capable of providing sac flies when needed.  Things may change as May and June roll around.

     

    Are these valid points?

     

    No, they aren't. 

     

    Though Kepler won't make the team, he'll play every day in AAA and be in MN if a starting OF hits the DL, or Rosario struggles big time. 

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    While I hope you are right, Molitor fell into the Gardy trap of keeping 13 pitchers pretty quickly last year.  

     

    Not to mention, I for one was pretty disappointed with how they handled Arcia last year, who may have been able to provide a bench bat.  I know he was awful at AAA, but the point remains, he was an Opening Day starter, went on the DL early.. then got stuck at AAA because he didn't hit on his 5 day rehab stint.  Did that get into his head, causing a snowball effect of bad at bats in AAA... or was he truly just lost all season?

    Rest assured, you were NOT the only one appalled with the handling of Arcia last year.  It may have been a relatively small sample size but Eduardo Nunez was the only guy on the club to finish with more at bats & a higher batting average than Arcia last year.  Could very well have been on his way to turning the corner but we may never know.

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    Rest assured, you were NOT the only one appalled with the handling of Arcia last year.  It may have been a relatively small sample size but Eduardo Nunez was the only guy on the club to finish with more at bats & a higher batting average than Arcia last year.  Could very well have been on his way to turning the corner but we may never know.

    Yeah, it may have been different if he hadn't crapped the bed in Rochester.

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    Kepler has a .280 lifetime minor league average and hasn't even hit AAA yet.  He has 41 stolen bases in 6 seasons with 13 sac flies.

     

    Santana has a lifetime .276 minor league average and has played in AAA already.  He has 124 stolen bases and 23 sac flies.  Hell his MLB average after two seasons is still .278 even after last season.

     

    What about Kepler's one AA season where he virtually had the same average (.322 vs .319) as Santana did in his MLB season prove your "better stick" theory?  I think Santana offers more to start the season and runs faster.  He also has proven he is capable of providing sac flies when needed.  Things may change as May and June roll around.

     

    Are these valid points?

     

    Very valid points.  Don't get me wrong.  I'm not one of those guys that has been calling for Kepler for the last year.  He's raw.  On the flip side, Santana really crumbled when criticized in the media last year. There were articles written about his bruised psyche and how it affected his game.  That worries me about him.  Hopefully, he can ignore all that and just play.

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    Kepler has a .280 lifetime minor league average and hasn't even hit AAA yet.  He has 41 stolen bases in 6 seasons with 13 sac flies.

     

    Santana has a lifetime .276 minor league average and has played in AAA already.  He has 124 stolen bases and 23 sac flies.  Hell his MLB average after two seasons is still .278 even after last season.

     

    What about Kepler's one AA season where he virtually had the same average (.322 vs .319) as Santana did in his MLB season prove your "better stick" theory?  I think Santana offers more to start the season and runs faster.  He also has proven he is capable of providing sac flies when needed.  Things may change as May and June roll around.

     

    Are these valid points?

    I agree that Santana should start the season on the roster but batting average is basically useless to use in isolation, especially in the case of Danny Santana.

     

    Santana will never repeat his 2014 BABIP, which directly led to that 2014 batting average. Santana swings and misses a lot. He doesn't walk often. He's a flawed hitter who doesn't show the signs you want to see from a hitting prospect.

     

    Kepler, on the other hand, was damned near immaculate last year. He didn't swing and miss. He drew loads of walks. The guy has a refined approach Santana will never replicate. Oh, and Max profiles to hit for modest power as well. In a nutshell, he's everything Danny Santana is not as a hitter.

     

    Santana MiLB BA: .276

    Kepler MiLB BA: .280

     

    Well, those are similar, right? Well, maybe not so much...

     

    Santana MiLB OBP: .319

    Kepler MiLB OBP: .362

     

    Okay, these players aren't very similar at all. One guy thinks about taking a walk every so often, the other guy goes to the plate with the intent of making the guy on the mound throw pitches.

     

    Santana MiLB SLG: .399

    Kepler MiLB SLG: .445 (and a whopping .531 last season)

     

    Yeah, these players are vastly different. The guy who makes the pitcher pitch also punishes the ball when the pitcher fails to execute. And the coup de grace:

     

    Santana MiLB SO: once every 5.47 PAs

    Kepler MiLB SO: once every 6.34 PAs (once every 7.65 PAs last season)

     

    This is getting ridiculous. The guy who makes pitchers pitch and tattoos bad pitches also hits the ball when he swings at it. He's looking like a damned fine hitter at this point. The other guy, maybe not so much.

     

    Batting average is a bad statistic in isolation. Kepler is a vastly superior hitter to Santana and trended up in a huge way last season. If Max gets the call to Minnesota, he needs to start every day. Danny Santana is utility fodder and the Twins should treat him as such (which it appears they are doing).

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    I agree that Santana should start the season on the roster but batting average is basically useless to use in isolation, especially in the case of Danny Santana.

     

    Santana will never repeat his 2014 BABIP, which directly led to that 2014 batting average. Santana swings and misses a lot. He doesn't walk often. He's a flawed hitter who doesn't show the signs you want to see from a hitting prospect.

     

    Kepler, on the other hand, was damned near immaculate last year. He didn't swing and miss. He drew loads of walks. The guy has a refined approach Santana will never replicate. Oh, and Max profiles to hit for modest power as well. In a nutshell, he's everything Danny Santana is not as a hitter.

     

    Santana MiLB BA: .276

    Kepler MiLB BA: .280

     

    Well, those are similar, right? Well, maybe not so much...

     

    Santana MiLB OBP: .319

    Kepler MiLB OBP: .362

     

    Okay, these players aren't very similar at all. One guy thinks about taking a walk every so often, the other guy goes to the plate with the intent of making the guy on the mound throw pitches.

     

    Santana MiLB SLG: .399

    Kepler MiLB SLG: .445 (and a whopping .531 last season)

     

    Yeah, these players are vastly different. The guy who makes the pitcher pitch also punishes the ball when the pitcher fails to execute. And the coup de grace:

     

    Santana MiLB SO: once every 5.47 PAs

    Kepler MiLB SO: once every 6.34 PAs (once every 7.65 PAs last season)

     

    This is getting ridiculous. The guy who makes pitchers pitch and tattoos bad pitches also hits the ball when he swings at it. He's looking like a damned fine hitter at this point. The other guy, maybe not so much.

     

    Batting average is a bad statistic in isolation. Kepler is a vastly superior hitter to Santana and trended up in a huge way last season. If Max gets the call to Minnesota, he needs to start every day. Danny Santana is utility fodder and the Twins should treat him as such (which it appears they are doing).

     

    Good work Brock, but I see you didn't have an answer for this one...

     

    "He also has proven he is capable of providing sac flies when needed" - Re; Santana

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    Good work Brock, but I see you didn't have an answer for this one...

     

    "He also has proven he is capable of providing sac flies when needed" - Re; Santana

    Well, in a roundabout way, I did. :D

     

    The guy who hits for power and doesn't miss the ball when he swings at it is going to provide plenty of sacrifice flies when presented the opportunity to do so.

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