Versatile Goodrum Gets September Call

Great for him.  Love rewarding his patience in the system but it is backed up by solid performance in the minors.  Hope he has some positive impact in September.  Great write-up Seth.

Obviously he's unlikely to have a long career in mlb, but you never know.

I'm hoping he makes the most of his opportunity, he's a guy in our system that I've always rooted for.

idk, in these days of 13 man pitching staffs versatility is valued.  Sure, he'll need to prove he can contribute at the MLB level, but he's exactly the kind of guy that hangs around.  

Perhaps if Escobar is let go end of this year? He's going to get more expensive and the Twins have a lot of middle infield candidates. Goodrum could easily replace Escobar (who could be signed and then traded this offseason - he has a Nunez like value).

Congrats to Goodrum! Exciting moment for him for sure. And also to the others, even if they've already had their debut.

 

I don't care about Rochester's results, I care about what is 100% best for the Twins. Just once I want to hear them say that.

Yeah, I feel weird that his parents and ladyfriend are coming to the game. I hope he only plays if the Twins are up big or as a pinch runner late in the game.

Though if it's him or Vargas, I vote Goodrum. Sick of watching Vargas take the worst at bats.

Congrats to Goodrum! Exciting moment for him for sure. And also to the others, even if they've already had their debut.

 

I don't care about Rochester's results, I care about what is 100% best for the Twins. Just once I want to hear them say that.

That said, they brought up extra arms and an extra position player. They don't have to guy Rochester for guys who won't play anyway. It's not like the Twins game tonight is going to hinge on Daniel Palka.

It would be interesting if they'd been playing away against an NL team. Then it would be a different matter due to pinch hitting and double switches. But in the AL, three guys right away is fine.

I doubt Goodrum can "easily" replace the production Escobar has, and will continue to, provide. I seriously doubt it, especially on offense.

I disagree. I love Escobar as much as anyone else but we all overstate his awesomeness. We love the guy and remember the big hits but it doesn’t hold up when you look at his stats.

His OPS with the Twins is .692. His OPS+ is 88 during that span. Last year his OPS+ was 67, this year it is all the way up to 89. He has two seasons where he was just above a 100 OPS+ but that was three and four years ago - he’s pretty clearly past his prime as he enters his age 30 season since he’s not even a replacement level player. It is ludicrous that Escobar has been the cleanup hitter for the Twins of late – there should be more outrage about this. He’s Nick Punto-esque with the bat but even Nicky never batted cleanup.

Defensively, he’s nothing special as a SS and is pretty awful in the OF – emergency at best. He’s a fine 2B and 3B but Adrianza is better at all of the positions than Escobar.

We need to look at the minors to compare him to Niko. Escobar’s minor league track record shows a .688 OPS in AAA and .670 in AA. By contrast, Goodrum put up a .763 OPS in AA and .734 in AAA. He played 15 games in CF in AAA and 62 in the OF and thus seems likely to be a better backup OF. He’s also played all over the infield – and again, Adrianza is the first defensive sub in the IF.

Outside of leadership/clubhouse factors (and we all are sick of Gimenez getting the benefit of the doubt for those so that should mean little) there’s almost no reason to play Escobar over Goodrum going forward this year, let alone next year. Escobar is not a good MLB player and he is 29. Goodrum is four years younger, is more versatile in the field and seems likely to hit better based on equivalent track records. Plus he’ll be way cheaper – Escobar is about to get a bump up in arbitration.

I love Escobar but no way should he be on the Twins next year. Goodrum is better in every way. The argument really should be whether the Twins carry a utility guy like Goodrum or a bigger bench bat like Vargas (ugh) or Palka.

In line with this, with Sano out, Escobar should be on the bench. Polanco should be playing 3B and Adrianza playing every day at SS. Maybe that messes with Polanco's mojo and you switch the two but those two should play every day. Adrianza has a better bat this year and his glove is way better.

Hard to watch Escobar go up there and flail away. He's just not a MLB regular and likely not even a very good utility guy.

the Twins and other teams are so confident he'll be a MLB player, that he could have signed with anyone last year, anyone.....

 

And no place did I describe Escobar as "awesome" or even close to it.

A.) I said we love Escobar's awesomeness, not you. Chill. I've never heard someone on TD Say, "we should make room for _____ by DFA'ing Escobar since he's redundant and not very good." I hear lots of love for Escobar on here. I think its because we like him as a guy in the clubhouse and he has hot streaks that make us lose the bigger picture. I'll say, I was shocked how bad Escobar has been, I was blinded too. I've spent the past few weeks disquieted by his presence in the lineup everyday, especially in the #4, #5 spot but I never thought he was borderline unplayable.

B.) You did say that Goodrum can't replace the offense Escobar provides. I think I showed pretty conclusively that that's a very low bar to surpass and that Goodrum is a pretty good bet to do it based on performance and age. Thoughts? Ceding the point?

C.) Goodrum isn't going to be a star. But he is better than Escobar. Defensively, likely offensively, from a cost perspective . . .

D.) We don't know that no one but the Twins wanted Goodrum last offseason. He chose to come back to the Twins - that could have been with 29 other suitors or with no other suitors. Makes sense he'd pick the Twins - they were a not very good team without a lot of proven guys on the left-side of the IF and weak at utility guy. And they know him and presumably told him he was a guy they'd think about promoting if he played well. Where's he more likely to get a big league debut?

minor league numbers are predictive, not conclusive. Until a minor leaguer who isn't a legit bit time prospect actually plays well in the majors, the odds are very, very, very low they will ever do so. I don't think you proved anything at all. You provided some predictive numbers, but no, I am not convinced at all he can hit or play defense in the majors. 

 

I mean, if he's so sure to be better, why wasn't he up earlier this year, and Escobar just cut?

Yeah but if a guy is younger and cheaper and the other guy is not even close to replacement level, why not give it a shot? And what makes you think Niko can't hit or play defense in the majors? Any evidence? When it's evidence vs. "I think", evidence wins. Niko has hit better at AA and AAA and Escobar is lost at the MLB level. It can't really get much worse.

No idea why Escobar is sancrosanct. Shouldn't be. My guess? They like Escobar in the clubhouse, he's a veteran guy for the young Spanish-speaking position players. And when it's your utility guy, that can be a factor. Intangibles matter. However, with Sano down for the foreseeable future, it's becoming an issue. That's a terrible hitter at 3B. Escobar should be a bench guy and Goodrum should get his playing time.

Why is this a contest about Escobar at the moment. Adrianza would be the odd man out on the roster next year.

I think that's the point. Adrianza should not be the odd man out next year. Adrianza is a useful piece - hitting as well as Escobar and a vastly superior fielder. His challenge next year should be from Vielma, not Escobar.

Escobar should be up against Goodrum. And Goodrum should win to the point that the Twins are trading Escobar in the offseason.

I definitely think people undervalue what Escobar brings to the team. He's shown that when given consistent playing time, he can hit and has some pop. He can play 3 positions pretty well, and he - from all I've seen - is truly a leader in that clubhouse. I don't know if they'll pay him $4 million next year to be a top utility guy, but I definitely think we need to realize that he has some value.

 

Now, Goodrum I think can have a role as a utility guy on rosters. I don't know if he will, but he's got a ton of talent that has just started really coming together the last year. He's got room to continue progressing too. I think his ability to play 7 positions at least adequately is a big deal, especially with more and more teams (including the Twins) often going to 13 pitchers. 

His OPS+ is 89. He has some pop but only in the sense that he is a far-below-replacement-level hitter. Escobar's pop is highly overrated because he's streaky.

He plays three positions pretty well but the Twins already have a guy (Adrianza) who plays those positions better and who can play a passable outfield. They also have a young guy in Niko who can play the same positions as Escobar, plus OF, and who profiles to be a better hitter (and one who is 25 and thus on the way up, not 29 and on the way down).

So it comes down to veteran leadership in the clubhouse. That's fine and all but Escobar shouldn't be playing down the stretch except as a late-inning PR or PH for a catcher. He shouldn't be on any postseason roster (knock on wood) and he definitely shouldn't be in the Twins plans for next year. Somehow I think none of those are going to be true, and that's crappy.