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  • Twins Trade Nolasco, Meyer, Cash To Angels For Hector Santiago

    Seth Stohs

    By Seth Stohs

    The Minnesota Twins reached an agreement with the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim minutes before today’s non-waiver trade deadline. The Twins sent right-handed pitchers Ricky Nolasco and Alex Meyer to the Angels in exchange for left-hander Hector Santiago and minor league right-hander Alan Busenitz.

    Image courtesy of Richard Mackson, USA Today

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    Twins fans have to be impressed that interim GM Rob Antony was able to find a taker for the frustrating Nolasco and the approximately $18-20 million remaining on his four year-$49 million contract. Nolasco threw a strong eight inning in his start over the weekend, maybe giving the Angels reason to think that he has turned a corner, or that they can get him back to his former self.

    Alex Meyer came to the Twins in the Denard Span trade from the Nationals. He was considered a top pitching prospect at the time because of a power fastball. He showed his potential at times, but he also found himself out with shoulder issues a few times. He made two relief appearances last year with the Twins. He also made one start for the team in early May. He hasn’t pitched in a game since due to a shoulder issue.

    Santiago, 28, has played for both the White Sox and the Angels. This season, he is 10-4 with a 4.25 ERA and a 5.03 FIP. He has struck out about 8.0 per nine innings, but has also walked about 4.3 per nine innings. The southpaw has a 3.68 career ERA and one more year left of arbitration. He should immediately take Nolasco’s spot in the rotation.

    Finally, the Twins acquired Alan Busenitz in the deal. He was the Angels 25th-round pick in 2013 out of Kennesaw State. He will turn 26 years old later this month. He began the season with 24 appearances out of the bullpen in AA Arkansas where he posted a 1.93 ERA, a 1.04 WHIP and 8.8 K/9. He recently moved up to AAA Salt Lake and has a 9.00 ERA in 13 innings. He does have 13 strikeouts in the Pacific Coast League. He should report to Rochester.

    Rhett Bollinger is reporting that the Twins will pay Ricky Nolasco for the rest of this season. The Angels will pay Hector Santiago for the rest of this year. The Twins are also sending $4 million to the Angels next year to help them pay Nolasco.

    As the trade deadline has passed, Ervin Santana, Kurt Suzuki and Brandon Kintzler all remain on the Twins roster. They, and others, can still be traded in August, but it would require waiver-clearing, etc.

    Seth Stohs has been blogging about the Minnesota Twins since May 2003. A founder and owner of Twins Daily, Seth has been a Twins fan for 40 years and has a passion for covering the minor leagues and prospects.
    Follow Seth Stohs on Twitter: sethtweets

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    Featured Comments

    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

    The accolades come from:

     

    1. Freeing Nolasco

    2. Cost savings on Santiago let loose after 2016

    3. Going along with the idea that Meyer might have chronic shoulder problems

     

    If neither of the last two end up true, then any love for this trade needs to be reconsidered.

    I don't know, even if #3 winds up true, it's not like #1 and #2 are some fantastic benefit. I did the math upthread, and it seemed like Nolasco's and Meyer's combined absolute market value was probably around $8 mil.

     

    So it's not an unreasonable trade from our perspective, but I don't get the accolades either. I'd easily rank it behind our Nunez and Abad deals.

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    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

    If Meyer comes back fast, and is great fast...then I have to wonder about the Twins' minor and major league coaching. If takes 2-3 years, or never happens, well, then whatevs.*

     

    *yes, I posted whatevs, sue me

    Well, it is just one data point, and we already have others that cause us to wonder about our coaching staffs. Which is why I may have preferred the long view and reassessed these assets in the winter (barring surgery for Meyer, both he and Nolasco were unlikely to lose value in the next few months).

     

    If I were the Angels, I might take a 2 year view of Meyer right now. True, he will likely be out of minor league options in spring 2018, but they could easily approach Meyer 2018 like we have done Tonkin 2016 or various Rule 5 picks, if necessary.

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    TheLeviathan

    TheLeviathan 17,473

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    In the universe of baseball prospects, Meyer is nowhere the leaders in hype/production differential. He obviously wasn't perfect, but Meyer really did produce through 2014. And he hasn't really failed on the field yet outside 8 starts at AAA in 2015, sandwiched around much better results at the same level.

    No guarantee they would get him on the right track, but Meyer is absolutely someone I wanted a new front office (and potentially new field staff, etc.) to be able to evaluate through 2017, more so than giving the new front office an $8 mil option for 2017 on Hector Santiago.

     

    2014 was two seasons ago.  He's yet to do anything but stink in AAA and this is his third year.  He's 27.

     

    At some point throwing a fastball hard is not enough. 

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    jimmer

    jimmer 9,961

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

     

    2014 was two seasons ago.  He's yet to do anything but stink in AAA and this is his third year.  He's 27.

     

    At some point throwing a fastball hard is not enough. 

    3 years in a row he was in the pre-season top 100 prospects then fell completely off this year.

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    old nurse

    old nurse 2,366

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

     

    3 years in a row he was in the pre-season top 100 prospects then fell completely off this year.

    The rate for pitchers ranked outside the top 10  having a WAR leas than 3 over their first 6 years is over 40%   That he was rated as a top 100 prospect really doesn't mean much.

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    TheLeviathan

    TheLeviathan 17,473

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    3 years in a row he was in the pre-season top 100 prospects then fell completely off this year.

     

    Yeah and I've held on tight to the hope that he'd eventually pan out, but this just not the kind of guy that I'd target from another organization.  He's too old and there isn't enough track record of success.  Plus the medical issues.

     

    Meyer hasn't even played well enough to be called a AAAA player.

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    jimmer

    jimmer 9,961

  • Verified Member

    • Posted (edited)

     

    The rate for pitchers ranked outside the top 10  having a WAR leas than 3 over their first 6 years is over 40%   That he was rated as a top 100 prospect really doesn't mean much.

    If you want to think going from a 20-50 ish prospect two years in a row to out of the top 100 is no big deal, that's completely your choice.

    Edited by jimmer
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    jimmer

    jimmer 9,961

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

     

    Yeah and I've held on tight to the hope that he'd eventually pan out, but this just not the kind of guy that I'd target from another organization.  He's too old and there isn't enough track record of success.  Plus the medical issues.

     

    Meyer hasn't even played well enough to be called a AAAA player.

    at this point, he's nothing more than a project.

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    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

    2014 was two seasons ago. He's yet to do anything but stink in AAA and this is his third year. He's 27.

     

    At some point throwing a fastball hard is not enough.

    2014 he was pretty good in AAA, his first go-around there. I think he was among the league's top starters that year, appeared in the Futures Game, etc.

     

    His first pro struggles came when he tried to repeat the level in 2015, which suggests maybe it was just a bad adjustment they had him make, to ease the shoulder concerns?

     

    I don't pretend he is some great bet anymore, but I think we Twins fans are letting our frustration color our perception of him a bit. (Much like how many posters exaggerated the depths of Nolasco's value too.)

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    TheLeviathan

    TheLeviathan 17,473

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    I don't pretend he is some great bet anymore, but I think we Twins fans are letting our frustration color our perception of him a bit. (Much like how many posters exaggerated the depths of Nolasco's value too.)

     

    I'm letting the reality of him being 27, with an ok career minor league track record, and a history of shoulder issues color my opinion.

     

    I hope he makes a good teacher.  Seems like that was something he was passionate about.

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    Danchat

    Danchat 11,131

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

     

    2014 he was pretty good in AAA, his first go-around there. I think he was among the league's top starters that year, appeared in the Futures Game, etc.

    His first pro struggles came when he tried to repeat the level in 2015, which suggests maybe it was just a bad adjustment they had him make, to ease the shoulder concerns?

    I don't pretend he is some great bet anymore, but I think we Twins fans are letting our frustration color our perception of him a bit. (Much like how many posters exaggerated the depths of Nolasco's value too.)

    You're right, I remember calling for the Twins to promote Meyer during 2014. He was pitching well and that's what was creating some excitement [even here at Twins Daily]. But then 2015 happened and the excitement disappeared.

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    Deduno Abides

    Deduno Abides 2,674

  • Provisional Member

    • Posted

    Yeah and I've held on tight to the hope that he'd eventually pan out, but this just not the kind of guy that I'd target from another organization.  He's too old and there isn't enough track record of success.  Plus the medical issues.

     

    Meyer hasn't even played well enough to be called a AAAA player.

    Go slow on the "too old." He'll be 27 in January. In 2014, the Giants won the WS with Madison Bumgarner and a bunch of cast-offs, the youngest of whom was 29. The talent is still there; if a different set of coaches helps him succeed, this trade will look as bad as Hardy for Hoey. Nolasco for Santiago straight up, with small salary relief, is not good. If Meyer takes off, then . . .

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    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

    I'm letting the reality of him being 27, with an ok career minor league track record, and a history of shoulder issues color my opinion.

     

    I hope he makes a good teacher. Seems like that was something he was passionate about.

    The reality of him being 27? He's still 26. And your earlier post seemed confused about what level he pitched at in 2014. See what I mean about perhaps viewing the situation through an overly pessimistic lens?

     

    As much as you want to imply that Meyer is a baseball afterthought and we should all move on to discussing his post-baseball teaching career, all the evidence we have suggests he is still worth several million dollars in value to MLB teams as a potential baseball playing asset. Let's just let it play out and wish him the best.

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    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

    I think he meant he likely won't be in the majors this year so the next season he'd be 27, but semantics is a fun game.

    I genuinely didn't know what he was trying to say. He already was mistaken about Meyer's AAA experience, so it didn't seem out of character to be mistaken about his age. I'll drop it for now, we have hashed all this out before.

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    TheLeviathan

    TheLeviathan 17,473

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    I genuinely didn't know what he was trying to say. He already was mistaken about Meyer's AAA experience, so it didn't seem out of character to be mistaken about his age. I'll drop it for now, we have hashed all this out before.

     

    You keep arguing "let the new regime work with him" - yes?

     

    How old will he be, at the absolute soonest, when such fruits would bear?

     

    Right.  So 27.  And that's if you're on some kind of really powerful stuff and think it's going to do a complete 180 in the next calendar year.  

     

    I don't care what level he was at several years ago, his track record is one littered with "meh" results and lots of injuries.  He's a 27 year old.  He hasn't even demonstrated the ability to master AAA.  Or master the ability to pitch an entire season.  

     

    I'm not looking at him with frustration.  I'm looking at him with resignation and acceptance.  

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    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted (edited)

    "Meh" results? Pre-2015, his entire pro career was pretty darn good in terms of results. He wasn't an elite prospect, but consistent double digit K/9 rates at most every rung of the minor league ladder from a SP prospect is hardly "meh."

     

    Obviously the odds are stacked against any prospect, and even moreso Meyer given the past 2 years, but I just don't see the upside in an org like the current Twins essentially selling Meyer for a few million cash, especially if that cash is nominally earmarked for Hector Santiago.

     

    It is not as bad as dealing Hardy for Hoey as another poster suggested, but it has a similar feeling of just dumping an asset for the sake of dumping it because you're not sure what else to do with it. It likely won't burn the Twins in this specific instance, but it seems like a suboptimal way to run an MLB club.

    Edited by spycake
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