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  • Twins Must Get Creative To Lure Darvish


    Nick Nelson

    If you're having a hard time wrapping your head around this, I can't blame you. But there is mounting evidence that the Minnesota Twins are indeed very serious about trying to sign Yu Darvish.

    Yes, the Twins – notoriously risk-averse in free agency – are making a run at the top name on the market. In their first full offseason at the helm, Derek Falvey and Thad Levine seemingly have the go-ahead to make an historical splash.

    But landing Darvish will take more than that.

    Image courtesy of USA Today

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    In the Offseason Handbook, we projected that Darvish would get a five-year contract worth $135 million. MLB Trade Rumors predicted six years, $160 million. So it seems there's agreement that $27 million annually sounds about right, and given the competitive market for his services, the right-hander shouldn't have trouble getting someone to offer it.

    Who knows, perhaps the Twins will outbid a number of large-market clubs and dangle the most money flat-out. I think we can all agree that's not very likely. This is a guy that pretty much every heavyweight contender would love to add. Even if Levine gets the sign-off on an offer in the $150 range (clearly a monumental IF) he could still easily be surpassed by another team that needn't concern itself with adding another 10 or 20 million to sweeten the pot.

    So if we operate under the assumption that Minnesota won't be able to match other suitors in terms of pure dollars, how might they get creative and entice him to sign here for less money?

    Sure, the Twins have some factors working in their favor. The bond between Darvish and Levine appears to be real. Any outside pitcher has to like the idea of throwing in front of Byron Buxton. And I've heard that the 31-year-old hurler doesn't necessarily gravitate toward playing in a big city.

    But, with prized free agents, sentimentality rarely wins out. The Twins need to figure out some tangible methods for overcoming heftier bankrolls and persuading Darvish.

    I see a few different avenues they could try:

    Opt-Out Clause

    These are becoming more and more common in contracts for top free agents. A lot of general managers don't like them because they're extremely one-sided, and offering one now would be a first for the Twins, but I think it'd almost be an obligatory component of any contract for Darvish that doesn't approach $30M/year.

    I'm sure Minnesota won't be the only team willing to include an opt-out clause, but maybe they're willing to let him trigger it earlier? Such a scenario would mitigate Darvish's risk in taking a smaller deal, because if he significantly out-pitches his pay he can hit the market again in two or three years, still shy of 35.

    It's not ideal for the Twins because they could easily lose Darvish right in the middle of a theoretical prime window of contention. But if that's what it takes to get him, you do it without a second thought.

    Deferred Money

    Here's an outside-the-box idea. Many baseball fans will immediately envision a Bobby Bonilla scenario where the Twins are paying Darvish a few million bucks in 2065, but Bonilla's infamous deal with the Mets is not the only example of this framework in action.

    In January of 2016, when the Baltimore Orioles signed slugger Chris Davis to a seven-year, $164 million contract, they deferred $42 million of it. He receives $3.5 million every year from 2023-32, and then $1.4 million annually through 2036.

    This reduced Baltimore's actual commitment on the ledgers to $119 million over the seven years, or $17 million AAV. The deferral is interest-free, which works in the club's favor, but Davis can look forward to steady income well into his retirement.

    That kind of distribution would make Darvish more palatable for the organization's bottom line. And while a perpetual $3-5 million payroll penalty for a decade-plus would hurt, the Twins are more than accustomed to carrying dead salary weight. That's a relative drop in the bucket. For a franchise-altering acquisition like this, it's worth considering.

    Personalized Experience

    We're veering back toward intangibles here to some extent, but not entirely. The most pervasive trend in business today is offering personalization. If you can tailor your solution to the specific needs and wants of the customer, you greatly increase your chances of closing a sale.

    To stick with that transactional metaphor, if the Twins are marketing themselves to Darvish, they may not be able to offer the best price, but could woo him with the most customized experience.

    Consider this: Chris Gimenez, who was Darvish's personal catcher in Texas, has been actively recruiting the righty to Minnesota despite his status as a free agent. Minnesota could easily bring Gimenez back if it'd be a draw. The Twins also recently signed Masa Abe, a Japan native who served as a trainer on the country's 2017 WBC team, as an assistant on the staff.

    With Gimenez indicating that Darvish was "not necessarily a fan" of some of the team rules during his time with the Rangers, Minnesota looks to have an experiential advantage over at least one other known suitor. And in fact, given the intel they have on Darvish's unique preferences, Levine and Co. have the ability to really appeal to the free agent on a deeper level.

    Money talks. But in the case of Darvish, it might not be alone at the podium. The Twins will probably have to hope that's true if they wish to defy the odds and win the ace they need.

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    Not sure the taxes work that way, but even if they do, I can't see the Twins or anyone giving out a signing bonus like that. 

     

    Joe Mauer moved to Florida when he was drafted and established residency there in order to pay Florida state income taxes (0%) on his $5 million signing bonus.  Here is a quote from a Reusse story back in 2001 that I got off of WestlawNext:

     

     

    Joe Mauer: What could be the Twins' last act of Minnesota loyalty was to use the No. l draft pick on Mauer, the St. Paul high school star. Mauer was so moved he delayed most of the $5 million signing bonus until he could establish residency in Florida and avoid Minnesota taxes.

     

    I am pretty sure that Darvish would be treated the same way.  The signing bonus is taxed by your residency state and your actual paychecks are taxed based on where you played individual games.

     

    In regards to the size of the bonus, that is where the innovation comes in.  If no other team would do it then it is a differentiator for the Twins offer.

    Edited by jharaldson
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    Joe Mauer moved to Florida when he was drafted and established residency there in order to pay Florida state income taxes (0%) on his $5 million signing bonus.  Here is a quote from a Reusse story back in 2001 that I got off of WestlawNext:

     

     

    I am pretty sure that Darvish would be treated the same way.  The signing bonus is taxed by your residency state and your actual paychecks are taxed based on where you played individual games.

     

    In regards to the size of the bonus, that is where the innovation comes in.  If no other team would do it then it is a differentiator for the Twins offer.

     

    interesting. thanks. I figured that bonus was part of his major league salary for the year, but maybe not.

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    Are the Twins still very interested? I feel like Darvish isn't enthused about the prospects of joining the team otherwise there would have been a meeting set up by now.

     

    Personally, I'm not going to worry about a meeting... that much... at least not yet.  :)  :)  :)

     

    Maybe one is scheduled for later.

     

    Maybe the Cubs and Astros need the meeting to throw a hail mary because they are behind.

     

    Maybe the Cubs and Astros need the meeting because they are offering less and they have some B.S. to peddle. 

     

    Maybe the Cubs and Astros need the meeting to get a quick assessment on probability before determining if they need to move on to Arrieta or Cobb. 

     

    I'll worry later.  :)  :)  :)

     

     

    Although... it sure would be a lot easier if we didn't have 29 other teams to contend with on EVERYTHING!!! 

     

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    Are the Twins still very interested? I feel like Darvish isn't enthused about the prospects of joining the team otherwise there would have been a meeting set up by now.

    Are you sure they haven't met? Or talked extensively? Darvish has a good relationship with Thad Levine from what I've read. I don't blame Darvish for meeting with other teams and seeing all that's out there for him. That said, I've always been skeptical that he would come here even amid some hopeful reports ... mind you, I'm still hoping, I'm just not holding my breath for any length of time.

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    I've figured it out. He is meeting with teams in order... based on the size of contract. Working from least amount offered to largest amount offered. 

     

    The Twins will be the last team he meets with.  :)  :)  :)

     

    I hope nobody takes this post... or any post of mine... seriously. 

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    I'm gonna make the call - Darvish to Chicago Cubs.

     

    Yep.  I just read on mlb rumors that he is asking for 6+ years and the Twins don't want to do that.  There's the excuse folks.  SO what's plan C?  Ohtani, Darvish.....strike one, strike two......Lynn anyone?  You wait, they are gonna enter spring training with basically the same rotation as last season minus Colon while saying "we tried really hard".   ;)   

     

     

    Ps....Colon has been in contact with the FO

    Edited by laloesch
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    There is no report from any of the local or national writers that the Twins have sat down yet with Darvish ala the Astros and Cubs(and soon the Rangers).  Along with reports(see above) that Falvine is balking at a 6 year contract just adds further doubt to how sincere these feelers are emanating from Twins.  Darvish is #1 free agent pitcher on the market.  Six years is a given, IMO, if Twins are serious.  Competing with the big boys means doing just that.  Don't stand by the edge of the pool and watch the big fish be gobbled up.  I thought new leadership would mean just that - a sharp departure from the old ways.

     

    It has been said well in other posts that Darvish is the big test for the new regime.  If they are unwilling to go all in, they are merely pretenders who are all talk and no action.   You can blame the Pohlad's penury or Falvine's unwillingnerss to take risks but in either case it doesn't bode well for the future if either of these two states of affair are still prevalent.

     

    Hope I have to eat my words but the trend so far is worrisome.

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    There is no report from any of the local or national writers that the Twins have sat down yet with Darvish ala the Astros and Cubs(and soon the Rangers).  Along with reports(see above) that Falvine is balking at a 6 year contract just adds further doubt to how sincere these feelers are emanating from Twins.  Darvish is #1 free agent pitcher on the market.  Six years is a given, IMO, if Twins are serious.  Competing with the big boys means doing just that.  Don't stand by the edge of the pool and watch the big fish be gobbled up.  I thought new leadership would mean just that - a sharp departure from the old ways.

     

    It has been said well in other posts that Darvish is the big test for the new regime.  If they are unwilling to go all in, they are merely pretenders who are all talk and no action.   You can blame the Pohlad's penury or Falvine's unwillingnerss to take risks but in either case it doesn't bode well for the future if either of these two states of affair are still prevalent.

     

    Hope I have to eat my words but the trend so far is worrisome.

     

    As do I.  I fear they are all talk but at the end of the day it's backed up by nothing.  What's worse?  Talking the talking and making promising claims and not following through (Falvey & Levine) or not saying anything and not driving up expectations (Ryan regime).  You make your choice but i know which i prefer.

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    To be honest, none of the big free agent pitchers fit the profile of a Twins pitcher ... and the new FO has done nothing yet to show they are changing that profile. The new FO so far has been into giving old guys new shots to perform ... but Ryan was no stranger to his either....

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    So if the Twins manage to sign Cobb or Lynn and then get a big fish in FA next year, will the FO still be considered pretenders? If they don't feel right about a 6 year deal with Darvish I don't blame them. We will just have to wait and see..

    What big fish will they get, if they don't want to pay market rates?

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    Yep.  I just read on mlb rumors that he is asking for 6+ years and the Twins don't want to do that.  There's the excuse folks.  SO what's plan C?  Ohtani, Darvish.....strike one, strike two......Lynn anyone?  You wait, they are gonna enter spring training with basically the same rotation as last season minus Colon while saying "we tried really hard".   ;)   

     

     

    Ps....Colon has been in contact with the FO

    I didn't see that ... do you have a link? The part about the Twins balking at Darvish asking for 6 years. I'll admit I didn't look too hard, but I didn't see that bit mentioned.

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    What big fish will they get, if they don't want to pay market rates?

    After looking at next years FA class it is basically a bunch of great position players and Kershaw. I thought there was a couple more "aces" but I stand corrected. 

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    While I'm not a fan of overpaying for pitchers, I personally would love to see the Twins bring in the first and only Persian major league baseball player.

    Thanks for saying that ... the Persian part. 

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    It says the Twins don't love the idea of that (and of course they don't, they are the Twins), but not that they are balking at an actual proposal of it, that they still maintain their interest. As I've said before, however, I don't think he'll come here, but that quote is not saying that there was any kind of discussion of years with Darvish and the Twins balked at it, nor does it say the Twins have outright said to Darvish they won't be agreeing to 6 years, which is what you seemed to imply. LaVelle said this in his column a couple days ago: "How the Twins react when/if Darvish asks for six years and $140 million-$150 million — which would easily be a club record for a free agent — will be the test of their willingness to dive into the deep waters of free agency to add top talent." So obviously, nothing concrete has been discussed for the Twins to balk at. Yet. That said, yes, he'll want 6 years, and money. I think that was a given going into the off-season even not knowing from him specifically. And why I've stated all along, despite the optimistic reports, I don't think he will be coming here. I don't think we'll offer him the most years and/or money, despite hoping we somehow will.

     

    But it's not a done deal. Yet. If there is more concrete news of actual offers presented, by all means, bring it.

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    It says the Twins don't love the idea of that (and of course they don't, they are the Twins), but not that they are balking at an actual proposal of it, that they still maintain their interest. As I've said before, however, I don't think he'll come here, but that quote is not saying that there was any kind of discussion of years with Darvish and the Twins balked at it, nor does it say the Twins have outright said to Darvish they won't be agreeing to 6 years, which is what you seemed to imply. LaVelle said this in his column a couple days ago: "How the Twins react when/if Darvish asks for six years and $140 million-$150 million — which would easily be a club record for a free agent — will be the test of their willingness to dive into the deep waters of free agency to add top talent." So obviously, nothing concrete has been discussed for the Twins to balk at. Yet. That said, yes, he'll want 6 years, and money. I think that was a given going into the off-season even not knowing from him specifically. And why I've stated all along, despite the optimistic reports, I don't think he will be coming here. I don't think we'll offer him the most years and/or money, despite hoping we somehow will.

     

    But it's not a done deal. Yet. If there is more concrete news of actual offers presented, by all means, bring it.

     

    With all due respect what are you talking about?  You repeatedly say BALKBALKING which implies illegality or hesitation which i never said.  Are you sure your replying to the right post? 

     

    What I said initially in that post was EXACTLY what mlbtraderumors stated in that they (Twins) don't like the idea of going six years on Darvish.  Again re-read what i posted.  The rest of it was sarcasm followed by an emoji.  And like or not they struck out on Ohtani whether people accept that or not because they stated it was a high priority to woo him to Minnesota and GUESS WHAT? IT DIDN'T WORK OUT! 

     

    And despite similar happy talk it now appears possible that the could very well miss on Darvish given their stated reluctance to go six years + on Darvish which i'm sure the Astros, Cubs, Rangers will easily and willing throw at him, so i'm not sure what your angst against my initial post is. As far as i can tell there were no rules violations so i'm not sure what you are getting at.    

    Edited by laloesch
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    Minnesota was in on Drew Smyly until the end, per Wolfson, before Smyly chose to sign with the Cubs. Minnesota gave an identical two-year, $10MM guarantee to Michael Pineda instead.

     

    BIZARRE.  

     

    Yeah my thoughts exactly.  Drew Smyly  :confused:   Doesn't Pineda fit that bill already?  Doesn't matter now as the Cubs signed him, but still pretty weird. 

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    So if the Twins manage to sign Cobb or Lynn and then get a big fish in FA next year, will the FO still be considered pretenders? If they don't feel right about a 6 year deal with Darvish I don't blame them. We will just have to wait and see..

     

    I think that would be a good offseason for them because Cobb and Lynn would be significant upgrades and while it wouldn't be quite as sexy as say signing Ohtani or Darvish it would certainly improve the Twins chances in 2018 and i'm all for it if they can't work it out with Darvish. 

     

    But the reverse could also be true.  If they do nothing this offseason and by nothing sign no significant quality starting pitching for 2018 you WILL have to admit that they look like "pretenders " with all the talk of being dead serious about going after upper end starting pitching. 

     

    That's why a lot of us have been saying "i'll believe it when i see it," because it's not like the Twins to do this (talk big about signing ace caliper top of the rotation starters and then follow through and actally do it).   Again, i would be thrilled if they did.

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    With all due respect what are you talking about?  You repeatedly say BALKBALKING which implies illegality or hesitation which i never said.  Are you sure your replying to the right post? 

     

    What I said initially in that post was EXACTLY what mlbtraderumors stated in that they (Twins) don't like the idea of going six years on Darvish.  Again re-read what i posted.  The rest of it was sarcasm followed by an emoji.  And like or not they struck out on Ohtani whether people accept that or not because they stated it was a high priority to woo him to Minnesota and GUESS WHAT? IT DIDN'T WORK OUT! 

     

    And despite similar happy talk it now appears possible that the could very well miss on Darvish given their stated reluctance to go six years + on Darvish which i'm sure the Astros, Cubs, Rangers will easily and willing throw at him, so i'm not sure what your angst against my initial post is. As far as i can tell there were no rules violations so i'm not sure what you are getting at.    

    The definition of balk is: to hesitate or be unwilling to accept an idea or undertaking.

     

    And in your initial post you said this:

     

    Yep.  I just read on mlb rumors that he is asking for 6+ years and the Twins don't want to do that.  There's the excuse folks.  SO what's plan C?  Ohtani, Darvish.....strike one, strike two......Lynn anyone?  You wait, they are gonna enter spring training with basically the same rotation as last season minus Colon while saying "we tried really hard".   ;)   

     

     

    Ps....Colon has been in contact with the FO

    That is NOT what the article said, at all, so no, you did NOT say 'exactly' what the article said. There have been no offers or statements of demands or any such thing. Yes, the Twins have a history of not wanting to go long on contracts, and yes, they likely have said they aren't 'in love' with that idea (which is what the link you posted said). And yes, it's (I think) very probably Darvish wants 6 years, that's no secret. But it's not like anyone has put anything out there in writing or verbally as to any specifics as your 'Darvish said this and the Twins don't want to' as if it was a specific thing said and responded to, not as rumor and speculation, which is what it is. And, which I think will be the case. I'll repeat it ... I don't think he'll be coming here, something I've said all along, or at least have said 'I'm very skeptical.' And that feeling is from the Twins history of long contracts and money.

     

     

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