Twins Add Seven To Their 40 Man Roster, Lose Achter, Pinto

clutterheart · November 21, 2015

That's what irks me most about the Dean add, I think. Even if it ultimately doesn't impact Rule 5 much, Dean is pretty much locked into that 40-man spot well into next season.

Yup.

Just like when they added Wheeler last year. They should have kept Gilmartin over him. I would bet 7 US dollars Dean is outrighted before September2016.

twinsfansd · November 21, 2015

Interesting that an NL team claimed Pinto

Controllable, trade-able asset.

Kwak · November 21, 2015

Controllable, trade-able asset.

Well, 1 out of 3 isn't bad.

stringer bell · November 21, 2015

So to summarize, the Twins added a power bat and power arms and........Pat Dean(?). Curious, but maybe they think he's found something. Not convinced.

Regarding Gilmartin, he was older for a Rule V guy, left-handed, and doesn't have the big fastball, so there was some resemblance to Pat Dean. It's real easy to second-guess, but I don't feel real bad that Gilmartin didn't stay with the Twins.

sane · November 21, 2015

Well, 1 out of 3 isn't bad.

Which one do you like? Controllable?

Dman · November 21, 2015

IMO Wimmers might be the Gilmartin of this year. He might stink as a starter but I think he has the pitches to be a good bullpen piece. Will be interesting to see who gets plucked.

spinowner · November 21, 2015

Of the 38 players currently on the 40-man the one I have the most trouble understanding is Logan Darnell. Yes, he's left-handed, but that's about the only significant plus I see. And he's going to be 27 years old in February. I'd have waived him before Pinto or Achter. Is there something the Twins FO sees that nobody else does?

blairpaul715 · November 21, 2015

Working on that, but the Twins have potentially 5-6 MLB-ready pitchers unprotected (Jones, Williams, Johnson, Peavy, Baxendale, Wimmers, Lee) Jorge who someone might pull a Santana, and Michael, Rodriguez (not the son of Pudge or Jairo) from the hitter side. That's 10 here.

Major league ready?? I would disagree on any of them being ML ready(Jones would be closest IMO).....Peavy wasnt even protected last yr for the AA version of Rule 5...............I do agree that it is possible that Jorge could get the Santana treatment if some team trully believe he has big upside.

blairpaul715 · November 21, 2015

IMO the most likely Rule 5 pickups off the Twins is Wimmers and Michael(former 1st Rd picks), and I dont have a quibble with who they protected for the most part, but I would personally kept Wimmers and dropped O'Rourke.

DocBauer · November 21, 2015

Not saying Gilmartin is, or ever will be a stud bullpen arm, but I think the Twins made a big mistake not protecting last year. Dean is LH, breathing, and has reached AAA with success. Hard not to keep someone like that for at least another season to see if he can fit a role. I guarantee someone else would have felt that way and snatched him up rather quickly.

I can't really find fault with those protected overall, though I am somewhat surprised. So many A ball arms that you would think would be safe. And I can't fault them for protecting Melotakis...but he's coming back from TJ and not sure anyone could afford to stash him.

While not a shocker, the disappointing part is Pinto. This is a mystery that I just don't get. He was productive through the minors, making somewhat slow but steady progress. Solid bat. Not so great footwork that needed polish, but big arm. He comes up to finish the 2013 season and becomes the Twins primary catcher.

He hits: .342/ .398/ .566/ .963 in 21 games, 76 AB with 5Dbls & 4HR & 12 RBI.

He allowed 9 WP which is terrible, but so was most of the staff. He caught 5 of 11 BS.

I know his '13 numbers were out of the box, but still, they flashed hitting potential we saw in the minors. And now he isn't even protected by the Twins? Wow...what a hard and disappointing and unlucky fall.

sane · November 21, 2015

I can't fault them for protecting Melotakis...but he's coming back from TJ and not sure anyone could afford to stash him.

It HELPS the stashing team if Melotakis spends all but 90 days on the DL.

The stashing team can replace him with a better player for all the time he is on the DL, so they will have 25 usable payers all the time he spends on the DL.

AKTwins · November 21, 2015

I understand the dean move. He's useful since he is lefthanded. He can spot start, but a back up long man or fill in if a couple Left ganders go down.

Otto von Ballpark · November 21, 2015

I understand the dean move. He's useful since he is lefthanded. He can spot start, but a back up long man or fill in if a couple Left ganders go down.

What's good for the goose, is good for the left gander.

Vanimal46 · November 21, 2015

Levi Michael will put up better MLB stats next year than Buxton, it sounds dumb now but Ima be bold bc I'm mad were losing him

Are you taking bets? I'd love to have 6 months rent free.

Seth Stohs · November 21, 2015

Of the 38 players currently on the 40-man the one I have the most trouble understanding is Logan Darnell. Yes, he's left-handed, but that's about the only significant plus I see. And he's going to be 27 years old in February. I'd have waived him before Pinto or Achter. Is there something the Twins FO sees that nobody else does?

He was a good prospect and he turned it on again last August when he was put back in the starting rotation in Rochester. Pitched remarkably well. CAn be better. As a relieer, could be even better.

Seth Stohs · November 21, 2015

Working on that, but the Twins have potentially 5-6 MLB-ready pitchers unprotected (Jones, Williams, Johnson, Peavy, Baxendale, Wimmers, Lee) Jorge who someone might pull a Santana, and Michael, Rodriguez (not the son of Pudge or Jairo) from the hitter side. That's 10 here.

OK, sure... but some of those have zero chance of getting selected. In fact, I would say Dereck Rodriguez has a significantly better chance of being selected in the Rule 5 than Reynaldo.

The guys I see as at-risk are Zack Jones, Corey Williams, Levi Michael and Felix Jorge.

Otto von Ballpark · November 21, 2015

. Dean is LH, breathing, and has reached AAA with success. Hard not to keep someone like that for at least another season to see if he can fit a role. I guarantee someone else would have felt that way and snatched him up rather quickly.
.

Kris Johnson was given up for a month of Morneau, Andrew Albers was free last winter, Aaron Thompson... there are limits to the value of "left handed and breathing." Being worthy of opportunities does not necessarily equal getting a guaranteed 25 man roster spot for an entire season which is what Rule 5 selection entails.

Dean was Rule 5 eligible the past two winters and not selected. He might be older now than any non-minor-league-free-agent Rule 5 pick ever. His AAA success and his entire minor league career has almost entirely been pitch-to-contact, even vs LHB.

Still want to guarantee he would have been selected in the Rule 5 draft?

Even if he was, would he be missed? He might be no better than the 3rd left hander in line for promotion from Rochester, either starting or relieving.

Edited November 21, 2015 by spycake

sane · November 21, 2015

What's good for the goose, is good for the left gander.

IMO Dean won't be in MLB long enough for anyone to take a gander at him.

whosafraidofluigirussolo · November 21, 2015

Wilin Rosario was DFAed by the Rockies. The rich man's Josmil Pinto?

jimbo92107 · November 21, 2015

I'm really disappointed they protected Rosario and Dean over Michael... Michael will be picked up for sure. When healthy he hits good and plays solid D, perfect for a rule 5 guy. Rosario making it all season in a MLB bullpen seems unlikely along with Dean being 26, he's in the prime of his career already.. Landa throws 100 so I can understand a guy like him being picked up. Just so disappointed I was starting to like Michael. Have to think Jones is a risk as well.

Levi Michael wouldn't be able to crack the Twins lineup, but he might get some interest as a utility guy, then eventually work his way into a starter's job at 2nd base. Too many injuries, other guys passed him up.

Brandon · November 21, 2015

Guys I'm pretty sure you can trade a rule 5 pick after the rule 5 draft....isn't that how we got Johan Santana and 50,000 for Camp....

sane · November 21, 2015

" Being worthy of opportunities does not necessarily equal getting a guaranteed 25 man roster spot for an entire season which is what Rule 5 selection entails.

Even if he was, would he be missed? He might be no better than the 3rd left hander in line for promotion from Rochester, either starting or relieving.

As an outsider to the Twins decision-making, I am going to take a guess on the Dean decision.

Sometimes you reward the guy who out-works all of your prospects, because all of your prospects will learn that hard work often results in rewards. THAT MESSAGE to ALL of your prospects is worth more than the 41st man on the roster who isn't working hard enough.

beckmt · November 21, 2015

Wimmers also could be picked and stashed, but have not seen his medicals and maybe the Twins feel he will never make it back from TJ surgery. Bard and Williams are the two I see the Twins losing.

One other note, I believe the Pirates lost 7 players one year somewhere back in the 2000's.

SarasotaBill · November 21, 2015

Even if not picked, Jones must be viewed lowly in the eyes of the Twins.

The good thing is that the Twins are protecting most of the high velocity arms.

I think Dean is a starter in reserve insurance policy in AAA next year.

Remember the Twins will need to remove players from the 40 next year when Berrios, Burdi, Reed, or other non-40s get promoted.

sane · November 21, 2015

One other note, I believe the Pirates lost 7 players one year somewhere back in the 2000's.

2003 Rule 5 draft[edit]

"the Pirates lost five prospects from their minor league system with the first six picks in the 2003 Rule 5 draft, even though they had unused spots on their 40-man roster and could have protected several of the players if they had chosen to do so. Chris Shelton, who had recently been honored as the team's minor league player of the year, went with the first pick, and he was followed in short order by Rich Thompson, Frank Brooks, Jeff Bennett, and José Bautista.[1] Baseball executives present at the draft laughed openly at Littlefield's embarrassment, and the laughter intensified after the Pirates declined to make a pick of their own.[1] The Cincinnati Reds, picking seventh, had all five Pirate players listed on their draft board and were frustrated to see them all go too soon, and an anonymous executive from another American League team said that his team had also planned to take a Pirate prospect, refraining only because in his words, "There wasn't anything left."[1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Littlefield

Otto von Ballpark · November 21, 2015

As an outsider to the Twins decision-making, I am going to take a guess on the Dean decision.
Sometimes you reward the guy who out-works all of your prospects, because all of your prospects will learn that hard work often results in rewards. THAT MESSAGE to ALL of your prospects is worth more than the 41st man on the roster who isn't working hard enough.

It is not a question of Dean vs another prospect for me, I think they did a fair job protecting otherwise. But Dean's roster spot would probably be better used on a waiver claim, a FA, etc, sometime in the next year, rather than rewarding a low upside guy who was unlikely to be claimed just so he can be AAA depth.

Heck, I doubt most of the relevant unprotected prospects have barely if ever even been Pat Dean's teammate, much less have an understanding why he was protected over them. The last guy on the 40 man is a much more abstract position than even, say, the last guy on the 25 man. (Where the Twins have had no issues allocating the spot for reasons other than talent/merit too, I might add.)

Edited November 21, 2015 by spycake

Otto von Ballpark · November 21, 2015

I think Dean is a starter in reserve insurance policy in AAA next year.

Remember the Twins will need to remove players from the 40 next year when Berrios, Burdi, Reed, or other non-40s get promoted.

So we can just do whatever we want with the 40-man spot in the meantime? Personally, in the meantime, I'd rather use it on upside or attempting to find a guy who might stick long term, rather than just subbing it for whatever minor league FA we usually sign to be AAA starter insurance.

old nurse · November 21, 2015

In regards to the Pirates losine players in the December 03 draft

Rich Thompson, Freddie Brooks were returned

Chris Shelton, minimal playing time

Jeff Bennett was the mop up man for the Brewers

4 out of the 5 say the Pirates did not lose anything but gained revenue.

Jose Bautista was with a lot of differetn teams in 04, ended up back with the Pirates, and still did not develop for a few more years

Edited November 21, 2015 by old nurse

sane · November 21, 2015

Heck, I doubt most of the relevant unprotected prospects have barely if ever even been Pat Dean's teammate, much less have an understanding why he was protected over them.

1) They have all been to the Twins Minor League Spring Training camp for three to five years from late February to early April where:

2) Baseball players often speak to each other at batting cages, bullpens, team meetings, pitchers meetings, meals, workouts, weight lifting, bull-**** sessions and local establishments.

3) They often speak to each other about "why were you and I passed over for THAT guy?"

4) They all speak to their own teammates and often on the subject of the teammates' teammates.

5) During ST,usually they talk to other players more frequently, than to their own family and friends.

Otto von Ballpark · November 21, 2015

1) They have all been to the Twins Minor League Spring Training camp for three to five years from late February to early April where:
2) Baseball players often speak to each other at batting cages, bullpens, team meetings, pitchers meetings, meals, workouts, weight lifting, bull-**** sessions and local establishments.
3) They often speak to each other about "why were you and I passed over for THAT guy?"
4) They all speak to their own teammates and often on the subject of the teammates' teammates.
5) During ST,usually they talk to other players more frequently, than to their own family and friends.

Fine. But you really think say Felix Jorge is going to feel any more motivation now than he would have if Pat Dean had not been added to the 40-man roster yesterday, but was still given a chance to make the team in spring training and maybe a MLB cameo mid season?

Heck, if Dean had been claimed by another club in Rule 5, wouldn't that also provide motivation to other players, both as example of another path to opportunity and as a rotation opening higher up the ladder?

I do not doubt motivating factors exist all over baseball, but they are so complex and hard to predict that you can't really use them as a basis for a decision like this one.

Sign In

Twins Add Seven To Their 40 Man Roster, Lose Achter, Pinto

Twins Video

Community Blogs

Forum Topics

Twins Top Prospects

The Players Project

User Feedback

Recommended Comments

Featured Comments

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Join the conversation