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  • Total Support: Why Jim Pohlad's Unsatisfying Comments May Be Wise


    Daniel Wade

    For the Twins to make a serious run at a division title in 2016 with the roster they had leaving Ft. Myers, a whole lot had to break right. Byron Buxton needed to take a big step forward at the plate, Joe Mauer needed to return to his old form, Phil Hughes needed to make 2016 look more like 2014 than 2015, Byung-Ho Park needed to hit the ground running, Glen Perkins needed to come back healthy, and about a half-dozen other things had to fall into place. Very little of it was outlandish in and of itself, but like predicting 10 flips of a coin, the sheer number of correct outcomes needed was what made the task so daunting.

    Some of them happened: Mauer had as good an April as he has had since 2010 and while Park was uneven in his first 10 games, he then hit .326/.375/.767 with eight of his 14 hits going for extra bases in the next 13. But far too few of the others did. Buxton looks lost, Perkins is still out injured, Hughes has been inconsistent at best, Eddie Rosario can’t stop swinging, and the list goes on. At a 10,000 ft. level, that’s how any team ends up 12 games under .500 fewer than 30 games into the season: The list of things that are going poorly is much, much longer than the list of things that are going well.

    Image courtesy of Brad Rempel, USA Today

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    Few who have watched this team so far would disagree with owner Jim Pohlad’s characterization of the team to the Star Tribune’s Chip Scoggins as a “total system failure.” The offense sits in the bottom third of the league, eight percent below league average; their defense has provided negative value. Their starters, expected to sit around league average, haven’t been close to that modest mark, and the bullpen has caved in, in the absence of Perkins. There are individual successes, but it’s hard to look at a unit on the field and say that they’re performing at or above expectations.

    What will raise more than a few eyebrows is that Pohlad then gave both general manager Terry Ryan and manager Paul Molitor an unequivocal vote of confidence and while it’s not always immediately clear, it didn’t seem to be the dreaded vote of confidence either. If there was any hope that the disastrous start to the season would result in a change in leadership, it’s gone for at least the rest of the season.

    To be frank, firing a GM midseason would be fairly out of step with how the Twins tend to conduct business, and that’s before taking into account Ryan’s years of service to the organization. One bad month, even one bad half season isn’t going to earn Ryan a midseason public dismissal. Short of a catastrophic error -- a rules violation during the draft/signing process resulting in a huge fine, releasing Buxton outright without cause, burning down Target Field -- it’s hard to imagine what Ryan would have to do to have his season end before the team’s did.

    If the goal is to keep the 2016 postseason in play, removing Ryan would do little good. There are no impact free agents available, no one in the draft is going to join the team and add seven wins from June 10 until the end of the year, major in-season trades are far more uncommon now than they used to be, and it’s hard to envision any other move designed to save 2016 that wouldn’t end up weakening the team substantially in the future. Yes, promoting and demoting players to their right levels is exceedingly important for the Twins in both the short- and long-term, but a new GM is actually less likely to make those calls correctly than Ryan is, simply because of his familiarity with the players up and down the system.

    Paradoxically, if the Twins were playing a little better, perhaps Ryan’s job would be more vulnerable because the marginal utility of changing GMs would be higher. Bringing in someone who had shown an aptitude for working the trade deadline in July and the waiver wire in August would be appealing since the AL looks like it will be decided by a razor-thin margin. (This presupposes that such a person is freely available at this point in the season, but that’s another column entirely.)

    Out of sheer proximity to the problem, the manager ought to be able to make the types of changes in-season that a GM can’t. But as the team has shown over the last few weeks, new blood isn’t enough to spark the team. Not counting pitchers, the team has had 15 players take the field with Brian Dozier, Eduardo Escobar, and Rosario about the only players who haven’t split a meaningful amount time at their respective positions, so it’s not as if the opening day lineup has been run out for 28 consecutive games and this is the result. Changes are being made, they’re just producing the same outcomes.

    Moving on from Molitor would certainly shake things up, and unlike Ryan, there are logical candidates available to take over. Gene Glynn, Mike Quade, and Doug Mientkiewicz are all within the organization and were either considered for the managerial vacancy left by Ron Gardenhire or have MLB managerial experience. So whereas Ryan is virtually locked in until the end of the season, Molitor could theoretically be moved.

    The downside is that it means burning a bridge with a legendary hitter who the players -- at least publicly -- seem to like and to whom they respond. There’s also no guarantee it will work. Glynn and Mientkiewicz have good minor league track records to buoy their candidacies, but there’s a huge difference between motivating a 19-year-old kid whose dreams are still ahead of him to work hard and getting the same response out of veterans like Eduardo Nunez or Kurt Suzuki. Quade did have some time working with the Cubs during their rebuilding phase, but they finished 20 games under .500 during his only full season at the helm, which is hardly a sterling reference.

    Molitor’s managerial ability is far from a known quantity. Last year’s team overperformed in his first full season by nearly as much as this year’s team is underperforming. He hasn’t shown an unhelpful fetishization of one particular type of player, nor has he proven incapable of handling a bullpen. The obvious warts aren’t there, but that doesn’t make him good, it just makes him not-bad-in-readily-apparent-ways. It may become clear what his deficiencies are as the season progresses, but losing him in service of a vague effort to spur a team that may well have put themselves in too deep a hole to recover from doesn’t seem like a good use of resources. Because, while he may prove himself to be a poor fit for a team that figures to be young and volatile for the next few years, it’s equally possible that he’ll prove to be a tremendous fit even if the team finishes 71-91. Plus, statistically speaking, firing a manager midseason doesn’t make your team appreciably better in the vast majority of cases. It’s a show of force, but if it doesn’t translate to more wins on the field, it can hardly be considered worth doing.

    Given that he’ll have just one more year on his contract after the die is cast on this season, it seems more than likely that the Twins will give Molitor the full value of his contract, then evaluate his performance from there. Assuming this year finishes in the same vein as it has started -- if not the exact same path -- that will put quite a bit of pressure on Molitor going into the 2017 season, as he’ll have one impressive season under his belt and one fairly poor one.

    While there is good reason to keep both Ryan and Molitor where they are for the rest of 2016 season, the takeaway here isn’t that Pohlad was right and that Ryan and Molitor are unquestionably the right people for their jobs. Ultimately, Ryan is the architect of a team that has been dire since 2011 (with a brief respite last year) and Molitor is the final authority on game-to-game matters for a team on pace to finish 47-115, the worst mark in franchise history and the Twins’ first 100+ loss team since 1982. And while 115 losses would be embarrassing even given how the season started, that 1982 mark is very much in play.

    The takeaway here is that, as with virtually everything in baseball, there is a rhythm and a seasonality to leadership changes, and that jumping out of that order doesn’t necessarily produce better outcomes. If the ownership group believes there is even a 1% chance they’ll want to move on from Ryan come the offseason, they should start making that determination now. Do the necessary due diligence and be ready to make a call at the right moment. Taking the time to do the requisite research, let Ryan know what to expect, and positioning to the public for either his return or his departure will go a long way to making sure the 2017 Twins aren’t fighting these same battles.

    Next week, I’ll take a deep dive into Ryan’s time with the Twins. The highs, lows, and how he stacks up against some of the league’s top architects right now.

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    Glen Taylor, paging Glen Taylor the Twins need to board the Korn Ferry.

    Everytime I think of Taylor and the woofies, and want to commend him on his recent decisions, I think of how many years it took him to make one. And I go back to the corner of moms basement.
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    The 2015 Twins were fool's gold, and shame on anyone who wasn't clearheaded enough to see that. To try an pin the past 6 years on any one person is naive. A variety of people in a variety of roles have come and gone, yet the results are still the same. The issue is that rather than make changes and bring in outsiders, the Twins have run their organization like a game of musical chairs. Gardenhire was the fall guy, he sat out a year, and then the organization brought him right back in. How do you expect anything to actually change when this is the approach?

    Add Smith to the fall guy list. Edited by Platoon
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    Good to counsel patience and foresight, even though those are two of the qualities most missing in Mr. Ryan. August would be the appropriate time to make changes to big league management.

     

    The concern is that history suggests these statements were warnings to the minor league staffs, who are probably being reviewed by Gardenhire. Whenever change has been done in the past, it's usually been minor league staff who have been blamed for failure at the major league level.

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    Everytime I think of Taylor and the woofies, and want to commend him on his recent decisions, I think of how many years it took him to make one. And I go back to the corner of moms basement.

     

    Oh no doubt he has been terrible, the Wolves have been maybe the worst franchise in professional sports.  However he stepped up this off season and made a quick informed decision to get his pick of the best coaches on the market.  Kudos to him for not penny pinching and going for it finally.

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    Mauer   $23M
    Santana $13M
    Nolasco  $12M
    Hughes  $9M
    Plouffe  $7.2M
    Perkins $6.3M
    Suzuki  $6M
    Jepsen  $5M
    Milone  $4.5M
    Dozier  $3M
    Park $2.7M
    Fein  $2.2M

     

     

    Let’s take a step back.   These 12 players are making $94M, not a cherry picked list.  These are the Twins ranked by salary.   How many of these guys could we trade right now and have another team take on their full contract?  Park for sure.  Maybe Dozier. A slight chance on Plouffe but probably not. So we have $89M devoted to 10 players that have no value at all.  That is a huge indictment of the GM.

     

    This is fun but I think you’re too pessimistic on this.

     

    I agree that few of these guys have a ton of value but I think many of these contracts would be assumed by another team (and that’s really what we’re talking about here – is this contract so bad that if a guy was waived, no one would claim him and the Twins would eat the salary?) With Milone and Fien we will get to see this today since they are going through waivers right now –the very definition of “would someone take on this contract.” (For the record I think Milone will maybe be taken and Fien will certainly not be).

     

    As for the rest, teams won’t give up tons/any of value but I think that many more of the contracts would be taken and some you’d get something for them.  Let’s rank them from most to least tradable (I did the full contract because that matters – I didn’t include buyouts because it’s complicated and I don’t think they materially affect any of these):
    -----------------
    Park 4 years/$12 million: The Twins could clearly get a lot for Park since right handed power is solid, he’s on a fantastic contract and he’s played a decent 1B so isn’t just a DH. They won’t do it but maybe they should? VERDICT: A nice shiny trade chip.

     

    Dozier 3 years/$18 million: Dozier would certainly be tradable, you’re underselling him based on some slumping. He hasn't played very well in the first month but he's four months removed from the all-star game and is a 2B who plays decent D and has pop on a pretty team-friendly contract. You would get something interesting for him for sure (not elite prospects but someone you could realistically project playing in the majors some day). VERDICT: You can certainly get something for him but you’d be selling low. Wait til the deadline – a streaking Dozier could be one of the more interesting guys on the market.

     

    Perkins 2 years/$12.8 million: This may be off because I’m treating it as if he comes back healthy. This is tough because he's injured and no one trades for an injured pitcher. But before the season he would certainly be tradable and if he came back and had two good outings he would be as well. He's another guy with a team-friendly contract. He may not close for other teams but a healthy Perkins is an asset many teams would take. Hopefully he can be healthy for the deadline because I’d love to see the Twins get something for him and set the path for younger guys. VERDICT: Incomplete. As is now, some team would take the contract because if he comes back, he can be a back-end bullpen piece. With a short demonstration of health, almost every team would grab him on waivers. If he has a good month, he’s a very nice trade piece.

     

    Plouffe 1 year/$7.2 million + arb: Plouffe's contract would also certainly be taken on by some other team. He's a league average player at a position where many teams have issues. Plus his contract this year is decent and you can let him be a free agent next year if you don’t want him so he carries no long-term risk. The Twins haven't moved him yet because they're hoping his value will go up, not because he has no value. I’d almost move him ahead of Perkins – only reason not to is that relievers can be fit into almost any team while a team would have to have a need at 3B/1B to want Plouffe. VERDICT: You can get something for him but it might not be much.

     

    Jepsen 1 year/$5.3 million: He hasn’t been amazing of course but he’s a reliever with a history of success and someone would easily take on this contract. Like Plouffe, you can walk away end of the season so there’s no long term commitment for a guy who has been a legitimate bullpen weapon. His contract would be taken off the Twins hands. VERDICT: Contract would be picked up, you might get a long-shot prospect? Probably not.

     

    Santana 3 years/$40.5 million: Santana is a tougher call just because of how much time he has left on the deal. He’s a veteran starter signed at a reasonable rate for a 3rd/4th starter for only two more years after this one – you’d think some wealthy team with pitching needs (the Angels? The White Sox?) would be willing to take him off the Twins hands. I don’t think you’d get much/anything for him but someone would take the contract. VERDICT: Contract would be picked off waivers and you might be able to trade him for something small but no one is giving you anything amazing for him.

     

    Suzuki 1 year/$6 million: Suzuki is an interesting case. The salary isn't prohibitively large but there isn't a team that wants him as their #1 (including the Twins, who just had no other better options and are hamstrung by JRM's struggles) and most teams either have a veteran #2 or have a young developing #2. That said, I imagine a team that had a starting catcher get injured would gladly take on Suzuki as their new backup (he’s better than the Juan Centeno/Chris Hermann types). Third catcher is a pretty low bar to clear and while the salary isn't cheap, Suzuki is a vet a team would feel comfortable with in a pinch and there’s no long term commitment. But agreed that it would be hard to get anything for him and you'd need someone to have a need. VERDICT: Need the right injury situation but you could get at least three bags of balls for him.

     

    Nolasco 2 years/$24 million: This is where I think we move over to pretty untradeable guys. It’s strange to put Ricky ahead of Hughes but he’s only got one more year after this on the deadline. I think it would be very tough to get someone to take this contract but if he had another month of relative success, some pitching-needy team might be willing to take him on as a back of the rotation starter they only have one more year to commit to. That’s pretty tough though, $12 million next year is killer. VERDICT: Not very likely and there’s no way you’re getting anything for him.

     

    Hughes 4 years/$48.8 mill: Hard to see someone taking Hughes. Four years is a long time and he’s already 30 and has over a year of struggling and diminishing velocity. He could be moved to the pen but he’d have to be elite to justify spending that money and there’s no indication he would be. Pretty untradeable. VERDICT: Not a chance, best path might be demonstrating some value as a reliever in the future.

     

    Mauer 3 years/$69 million: Crazy that perhaps the best player on this list is the least tradable guy but as a 1B with little power, he’d be a tough sell. If he had one year left, there’s a decent chance some super rich team would value his OBP and bring him aboard to cover an injury but with three years left, this contract is the Twins. Which I’m glad about. #joemauerforlife VERDICT: Nope.

     

    Thoughts on these? Not a ringing endorsement of the Twins free agent moves but you could just shed the salary easier on these than we might think.

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    So we should be playing ALL the rookies together, at some point. Humm. Look at the AAA roster this year and the last few. How many of these guys would you actually see, long-term, in the majors. Seems the AA roster is the last "core of youngsters" development stop. Filling your AAA franchise with minor league free agents, so many so that some spill down into AA and even high A means you may have something wrong, overall, in your player draft system. Not enough guys making it past year one or year two to hold fort and PUSH these prospects playing at, say, AA ball into AAA...even if overmatched?

     

    Must you always wait half-a-season and move guys up, if you feel like it. Or go ahead and have Baxendale, Burdi, Reed, even Gordon START at a higher lev. You can always go backwards for a tune-up.

     

    But then, we are bad if we do bring up Meyer, or Kepler, or Buxton (or Hicks, or before that Gomez) and watch them be overmatched on the major league level, not getting proper coaching advice (?) and having to go back down and be a superstar in the minors.

     

    What is the TRUE development answer. Let the guys play together and win in the minors (as they have been) and then lose in the majors?

     

    And, yes, the Twins did overpay for some rotation fodder. They answered the call of the fans who thought the organization was stingy and keeping large profits for their own purses. And then we turn around and bash them that they didn't get the right guys...and overpaid. That's a tough one. Who wanted to come to Minnesota and pitch after the dreadful four seasons of losing. Will a player go somewhere if they are rewarded handsomely, rather than just give a contract that they could probably get anywhere else? Damned if front office does, or doesn't.

     

    Ryan knows what he does right. Molitor is a solid manager. We need to fear, it seems, someone totally different coming in and really throwing everything out the window and starting all over and maybe making a shambles of things, or if they come in too comfortable, then it is still the same-old same-old with different names.

     

    Hey, did you catch all the new foods at Target Field and the new bar in centerfield. Plus concerts now at the park. And no lines!

     

     

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    I believe that the time for this youth movement was after the 2012 season. The team was 66-96 and the top pitcher in the rotation was Scott Diamond. That's when you declare youth movement and you trade off anything of value that isn't nailed down. 


    2016... So we were "THIS CLOSE" to making the playoffs in 2015. And for the first time since 2012... 

     

    The TEAM GETS YOUNGER!!! 

     

    I'm Ok with a youth movement... there was no reason it couldn't have started earlier and why wait until we get "THIS CLOSE" to dip your toe in the youth pool? 

     

    I agree that they were way too late to do the rebuild, they should have started the youth movement after 2010, I know they won the division, but there were a lot of us who said the end was at hand after that season. Still, just because they were late with the youth movement and turning over the vets, they still need to do it.

     

    I also don't think the team was anywhere near close to a contender last year, the whole season seemed like a mirage, even when they were winning. Record-wise sure, just not ready to compete.

     

    I'm good getting vets once we know what we need, but they have to flush out the system first. We still don't know which of these young guys are going to be capable players, in my view that has to happen first or we're just blindly guessing, trying to fill future holes. Will we need bullpen help in 2017-18? We're not going to know until we see what Burdi, Chargois, Melotakis and Rogers can do. Does the rotation need another stable veteran? Who knows, we haven't seen nearly enough of Meyer, Berrios and Duffey and May is still banished to the pen.

     

    Will we need a catcher? Well uh, yeah, that's a given, go find a catcher if one is available.

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    This is fun but I think you’re too pessimistic on this.

     

    I agree that few of these guys have a ton of value but I think many of these contracts would be assumed by another team (and that’s really what we’re talking about here – is this contract so bad that if a guy was waived, no one would claim him and the Twins would eat the salary?) With Milone and Fien we will get to see this today since they are going through waivers right now –the very definition of “would someone take on this contract.” (For the record I think Milone will maybe be taken and Fien will certainly not be).

     

    As for the rest, teams won’t give up tons/any of value but I think that many more of the contracts would be taken and some you’d get something for them.  Let’s rank them from most to least tradable (I did the full contract because that matters – I didn’t include buyouts because it’s complicated and I don’t think they materially affect any of these):
    -----------------
    Park 4 years/$12 million: The Twins could clearly get a lot for Park since right handed power is solid, he’s on a fantastic contract and he’s played a decent 1B so isn’t just a DH. They won’t do it but maybe they should? VERDICT: A nice shiny trade chip.

     

    Dozier 3 years/$18 million: Dozier would certainly be tradable, you’re underselling him based on some slumping. He hasn't played very well in the first month but he's four months removed from the all-star game and is a 2B who plays decent D and has pop on a pretty team-friendly contract. You would get something interesting for him for sure (not elite prospects but someone you could realistically project playing in the majors some day). VERDICT: You can certainly get something for him but you’d be selling low. Wait til the deadline – a streaking Dozier could be one of the more interesting guys on the market.

     

    Perkins 2 years/$12.8 million: This may be off because I’m treating it as if he comes back healthy. This is tough because he's injured and no one trades for an injured pitcher. But before the season he would certainly be tradable and if he came back and had two good outings he would be as well. He's another guy with a team-friendly contract. He may not close for other teams but a healthy Perkins is an asset many teams would take. Hopefully he can be healthy for the deadline because I’d love to see the Twins get something for him and set the path for younger guys. VERDICT: Incomplete. As is now, some team would take the contract because if he comes back, he can be a back-end bullpen piece. With a short demonstration of health, almost every team would grab him on waivers. If he has a good month, he’s a very nice trade piece.

     

    Plouffe 1 year/$7.2 million + arb: Plouffe's contract would also certainly be taken on by some other team. He's a league average player at a position where many teams have issues. Plus his contract this year is decent and you can let him be a free agent next year if you don’t want him so he carries no long-term risk. The Twins haven't moved him yet because they're hoping his value will go up, not because he has no value. I’d almost move him ahead of Perkins – only reason not to is that relievers can be fit into almost any team while a team would have to have a need at 3B/1B to want Plouffe. VERDICT: You can get something for him but it might not be much.

     

    Jepsen 1 year/$5.3 million: He hasn’t been amazing of course but he’s a reliever with a history of success and someone would easily take on this contract. Like Plouffe, you can walk away end of the season so there’s no long term commitment for a guy who has been a legitimate bullpen weapon. His contract would be taken off the Twins hands. VERDICT: Contract would be picked up, you might get a long-shot prospect? Probably not.

     

    Santana 3 years/$40.5 million: Santana is a tougher call just because of how much time he has left on the deal. He’s a veteran starter signed at a reasonable rate for a 3rd/4th starter for only two more years after this one – you’d think some wealthy team with pitching needs (the Angels? The White Sox?) would be willing to take him off the Twins hands. I don’t think you’d get much/anything for him but someone would take the contract. VERDICT: Contract would be picked off waivers and you might be able to trade him for something small but no one is giving you anything amazing for him.

     

    Suzuki 1 year/$6 million: Suzuki is an interesting case. The salary isn't prohibitively large but there isn't a team that wants him as their #1 (including the Twins, who just had no other better options and are hamstrung by JRM's struggles) and most teams either have a veteran #2 or have a young developing #2. That said, I imagine a team that had a starting catcher get injured would gladly take on Suzuki as their new backup (he’s better than the Juan Centeno/Chris Hermann types). Third catcher is a pretty low bar to clear and while the salary isn't cheap, Suzuki is a vet a team would feel comfortable with in a pinch and there’s no long term commitment. But agreed that it would be hard to get anything for him and you'd need someone to have a need. VERDICT: Need the right injury situation but you could get at least three bags of balls for him.

     

    Nolasco 2 years/$24 million: This is where I think we move over to pretty untradeable guys. It’s strange to put Ricky ahead of Hughes but he’s only got one more year after this on the deadline. I think it would be very tough to get someone to take this contract but if he had another month of relative success, some pitching-needy team might be willing to take him on as a back of the rotation starter they only have one more year to commit to. That’s pretty tough though, $12 million next year is killer. VERDICT: Not very likely and there’s no way you’re getting anything for him.

     

    Hughes 4 years/$48.8 mill: Hard to see someone taking Hughes. Four years is a long time and he’s already 30 and has over a year of struggling and diminishing velocity. He could be moved to the pen but he’d have to be elite to justify spending that money and there’s no indication he would be. Pretty untradeable. VERDICT: Not a chance, best path might be demonstrating some value as a reliever in the future.

     

    Mauer 3 years/$69 million: Crazy that perhaps the best player on this list is the least tradable guy but as a 1B with little power, he’d be a tough sell. If he had one year left, there’s a decent chance some super rich team would value his OBP and bring him aboard to cover an injury but with three years left, this contract is the Twins. Which I’m glad about. #joemauerforlife VERDICT: Nope.

     

    Thoughts on these? Not a ringing endorsement of the Twins free agent moves but you could just shed the salary easier on these than we might think.

     

    I think there is literally zero chance Nolasco, Santana, Suzuki, Mauer, or Hughes find a taker at full contract.  None whatsoever.  Mauer is owed too much for too long.  Ervin is a guy who tested for PED’s so nobody knows what to make of him.  And Hughes has had a velo dip the last 1.5 years so going out four more is risky.  A good litmus test on these would be what would these guys get on the FA market right now.  If the contract is drastically lower than they are owed, then nobody would by definition take their contract in a trade (unless you are also taking a bad one back).

     

    Then you have a few, if they came back healthy and were on a good streak maybe, Perkins and Dozier.  But probably not Dozier, I think he has red flags abound right now about his health.  A good month probably does not put those to bed.  I put Jepsen and Plouffe in the probably not category.   Park would net something real nice, no doubt. 

    Edited by tobi0040
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    I think there is literally zero chance Nolasco, Santana, Suzuki, Mauer, or Hughes find a taker at full contract.  None whatsoever.  Mauer is owed too much for too long.  Ervin is a guy who tested for PED’s so nobody knows what to make of him.  And Hughes has had a velo dip the last 1.5 years so going out four more is risky.  A good litmus test on these would be what would these guys get on the FA market right now.  If the contract is drastically lower than they are owed, then nobody would by definition take their contract in a trade (unless you are also taking a bad one back).

     

    Then you have a few, if they came back healthy and were on a good streak maybe, Perkins and Dozier.  But probably not Dozier, I think he has red flags abound right now about his health.  A good month probably does not put those to bed.  I put Jepsen and Plouffe in the probably not category.   Park would net something real nice, no doubt. 

     

    PEDs don't really matter. It hasn't stopped Melky Cabrera from getting interest. Teams have little to lose - if the guy gets suspended they don't have to pay him. It's a no-lose situation.

     

    The point about the FA market is fine for the offseason but right now, there aren't a ton of options. If you're the White Sox looking for a replacement for John Danks or the Angels for Garret Richards, you don't have good internal options and there aren't a ton of pitchers available. The Twins would give you Nolasco for free and Santana for very little. Nolasco is crap and we agree no one will want him but Santana is a pretty decent starter. You might not resign the length of his deal today (though you might, he was lights out end of last year) but you will see it as a slight overpay to fix an in-season problem. It's the basic tenet behind why the Twins kept Plouffe and why the Phillies waited to trade Hamels til midseason last year - teams will pay more in-season than off-season because they have fewer options and more pressure to fill a hole and compete.

     

    You're crazy if you think Dozier doesn't have value. Decent contract, young guy with power at a non-power position. I see nothing about him having an injury, I don't know where that is coming from. His value isn't based on a hot streak, he's just a guy it makes sense to wait to see if he can build value. He would get you a nice piece right now but he might get you something much nicer down the road.

     

    With the others, I think we're confusing "has good trade value" with "someone would pick this guy up on waivers and take on the contract." If put on waivers Park, Plouffe, Dozier, Perkins, Jepsen and likely Santana would be grabbed by someone. As far as having actual trade value, I think the first four definitely have it and the last two likely get you a pretty bad prospect.

     

    Remember that Chris Hermann, Sam Fuld and Drew Butera all fetched back something pretty decent. I know they were really cheap but they got actual prospects. You can give away salary easily.

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    PEDs don't really matter. It hasn't stopped Melky Cabrera from getting interest. Teams have little to lose - if the guy gets suspended they don't have to pay him. It's a no-lose situation.

     

    The point about the FA market is fine for the offseason but right now, there aren't a ton of options. If you're the White Sox looking for a replacement for John Danks or the Angels for Garret Richards, you don't have good internal options and there aren't a ton of pitchers available. The Twins would give you Nolasco for free and Santana for very little. Nolasco is crap and we agree no one will want him but Santana is a pretty decent starter. You might not resign the length of his deal today (though you might, he was lights out end of last year) but you will see it as a slight overpay to fix an in-season problem. It's the basic tenet behind why the Twins kept Plouffe and why the Phillies waited to trade Hamels til midseason last year - teams will pay more in-season than off-season because they have fewer options and more pressure to fill a hole and compete.

     

    You're crazy if you think Dozier doesn't have value. Decent contract, young guy with power at a non-power position. I see nothing about him having an injury, I don't know where that is coming from. His value isn't based on a hot streak, he's just a guy it makes sense to wait to see if he can build value. He would get you a nice piece right now but he might get you something much nicer down the road.

     

    With the others, I think we're confusing "has good trade value" with "someone would pick this guy up on waivers and take on the contract." If put on waivers Park, Plouffe, Dozier, Perkins, Jepsen and likely Santana would be grabbed by someone. As far as having actual trade value, I think the first four definitely have it and the last two likely get you a pretty bad prospect.

     

    Remember that Chris Hermann, Sam Fuld and Drew Butera all fetched back something pretty decent. I know they were really cheap but they got actual prospects. You can give away salary easily.

     

    We are not on the same page regarding the value of these guys.  I just know that I have heard countless times.  We need to get rid of Nolasco, or Mauer, or Fein, or Milone, or Ervin but nobody will take the contract.  At some point if I am the owner I am asking the GM, why do you keep signing guys that no other team wants?  Why did you convince me four months ago we should tender Milone, now we can’t find another team in the league to take him, etc.

     

    With Ervin, I think it is the combination of he was durable, then PED’s, now is not anymore.  People probably question his durability now .  And Hermann, Butera, etc. were not making any money or on long term deals.

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    There are things that Molitor does that drive me a little crazy.

    I didn't understand his statement that Sano won't play 3B at all (I know he changed his mind).

    I don't understand what took him so long to play other players while the squad was losing 9 games to start the season.

    I don't understand why Nunez is seemingly the guy with the short end of the infield stick when his bat has been clearly productive while others who are not productive are getting the preferred playing time.

    I don't understand why Dozier continues to bat at the top of the lineup instead of in the middle.

    I don't understand how Park can sit 4 games in a row in Milwaukee and DC

    and I don't understand the use of Kepler, Polanco and Meyer.

    However... I'm not going to call for his head because he doesn't do what I want him to do. Honestly... most of you fine folks wouldn't do what I wanted you to do and even my idolized Joe Maddon wouldn't do everything I wanted him to do and eventually you just run out of managers that you are happy with until they give me the job.

    As Seth Said... Molitor's results were an over performance last year and an equal under performance so far this year. So what does he get credit/blame for?

    Now... As For Terry Ryan... This is where the buck stops in my opinion.

    He had an over achieving team that came close last year. The Twins surprised everyone... It was a young team in comparison to most but it came close and there is talent on the roster. So what did he do this off season?

    Here are my list of grievances:

    1. He made the team even younger!!! This is what you do when you are rebuilding... you get younger. We got Younger in CF and Younger at Backup Catcher and much younger in RF and based on MLB Experience... We got younger at DH as well since Park is brand spanking new in this league. We took a young team and made it younger and said go win us a pennant.

    2. He didn't learn from his past CF Mistakes... Perhaps the most puzzling thing to me is this. Why would he willingly make Buxton the opening day starter after he clearly struggled in 2015? And why would he do this when he made the same mistake with Hicks and made the same mistake with Hicks again? And each time he didn't provide an adequate safety net.

    3. He didn't address the bullpen... The bullpen had serious issues in 2015 in my opinion and those issues were at the key positions. We didn't know what Perkins had left in him at the end of 2015... Jepsen was great filling in for Perkins but he was a vet with a pretty clear track record of a guy who was on the fringe of a set up position and if any of you were wondering why May wasn't really considered for a starting position... in my opinion... you can look right here. The bullpen needed help when May was moved to the bullpen in 2015 and that's why he was moved there and the bullpen still needed that help going into 2016. Ryan needed to add two quality bullpen arms that could provide insurance for Perkins and push everyone down a notch in the pecking order and by doing so... strengthening the bullpen.

    4. He watched the entire American League improve around him... Everybody got better and we got younger... The American League was going to be a fight every single night and he decided that younger and the mistakes that come with younger players was going to help us win those fights.

    5. He doesn't seem to be on the same page as his Manager and Rash changes on Cinco De Mayo suggest that he didn't see this coming.

    BTW... He gets credit for the Park signing. So the off season wasn't totally bad.

     

    Yes.   I'd add only the Pohlad's culpability to this analysis.   Terry Ryan and the Pohlad family, in that order, are the biggest problems on this team.   Jim Pohlad's comments last night lead me to conclude that he fundamentally misunderstands the game of baseball.   I never thought I'd miss his father's presence, and maybe I actually don't, but I think he understood the game better than his sons.   We need an owner who gets it, and we don't have one.

     

    Edit to add:   it's far too early to know whether Molitor is the right guy, as the OP points out.

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    Yes.   I'd add only the Pohlad's culpability to this analysis.   Terry Ryan and the Pohlad family, in that order, are the biggest problems on this team.   Jim Pohlad's comments last night lead me to conclude that he fundamentally misunderstands the game of baseball.   I never thought I'd miss his father's presence, and maybe I actually don't, but I think he understood the game better than his sons.   We need an owner who gets it, and we don't have one.

     

    Edit to add:   it's far too early to know whether Molitor is the right guy, as the OP points out.

     

    I think Jim has no idea what he is doing.  None.

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    Ryan knows what he does right. Molitor is a solid manager. We need to fear, it seems, someone totally different coming in and really throwing everything out the window and starting all over and maybe making a shambles of things, or if they come in too comfortable, then it is still the same-old same-old with different names.

     

    Hey, did you catch all the new foods at Target Field and the new bar in centerfield. Plus concerts now at the park. And no lines!

     

    I don't believe any change the Twins could make would result in anything as disappointing as we have experienced over the past 6 years.  What is there to fear?  Another 90 loss season?  A shamble of things?  Things already are in shambles.  

     

    I am curious what you believe makes Molitor "solid".  At best he is a league average manager.

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    Seth, I thought I read an article by you before the season started or maybe it was just some comments, that said you thought we would be serious division contenders this season.  Am I remembering correctly?

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    Even more nuts is the way he has treated D. Santana, Rosario, and Dozier. They get treated way better than they should from him. He seems to like the scrappy athlete type, and will give them every chance in the world and put them in the best of situations for success, though unwanted.

    What the hell has D Santana done wrong to earn your scorn? 

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    'I asked Pohlad why he has resisted the urge to make wholesale changes in organizational philosophy.

     

    “I don’t know what the difference in philosophy that people would like to see,” he said. “Everybody had universally high expectations for this season relative to last season. We bought into that. I still don’t see any flaw in that. It’s just system failure.”'

     

    Everyone had universally high expectations?

     

    And, BTW, there were huge flaws into buying into that. If the owner(s) and management bought into that, they weren't looking too deeply at the team assembled and how the numbers they had last year didn't support the record they had last year.

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    Meddling owners are bad. But so is utter indifference. The Pohlads clearly could give two bits whether they own the team or not. There is a provision in the stadium legislation penalizing them if they sell in the first 10 years. The County should waive it. Sell to someone who gives a crap. 

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    This is a tough era to be a Twins fan.

     

    The comments by the owner do a great job of exemplifying this.  He does nothing but instill feelings of doom and dread for our future.  It may have been better for him to stay in the shadows and collect his money.

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    This is the Twins.  The article is well written, but easy to write because this is what the Twins do.  They hire and stay the course.  They do not make changes, especially changes that switch directions.  The manager and the GM have security.  We all know that.  Our complaints are not because we expect change, but because we want some change.  We want a different approach.  And it is not Molitor that most of us question - it is TR. 

    What change? and why? A different GM, right? Maybe a different manager, not from inside? I do want some clarity here. People want change because of the last four or five seasons of losing? I hear people say no other team would tolerate so many successive seasons of losing without making changes in management. 

     

    Or, do people want change want it because of specific mistakes made by management?

     

    I said, earlier in this thread that my only big criticism of TR is when the team was good, he didn't do enough (anything) to make it better. It seemed like we were always one or two pieces away from being competitive in the post season, but the management was content with division titles. 

     

    To me, the previous four-five seasons of losing are a function of rebuilding the minor league system. I think it's well worth enduring the losing seasons for the result of a stocked farm system. I think this is the way to achieve sustained success. 

     

    I've come to appreciate the Twins' "family-style" approach to management. It makes me feel like I'm rooting for real people, not some abstract idea of the Twins represented by a jersey. The team/organization are the actual people that compose it. TR is a part of the Twins. Ron Gardenhire is a part of the Twins. Paul Molitor is a part of the Twins. Joe Mauer is a part of the Twins. All the former players and Minnesotans on the broadcast crews are part of the Twins. I don't just want to see the Twins win the World Series, I want to see the people who are the Twins win the World Series. Don't get me wrong, I'd be very happy to see the Twins win the World Series with any collection of players and management, but for me it would be much much better to see Joe Mauer win the World Series with the Twins.

     

    From what I can tell, the Twins family/loyalty approach toward management does extend to the players as well. If anything, I wish it did even more so. I think loyalty results in a better product, and I think in this era it's really difficult to foster. I think the loyalty makes the players feel like they are a part of something. I think it leads to them making stronger and more lasting connections in the community. Players seem to like being a part of the organization so much that in the rare event someone gets treated with some measure of disloyalty, they are seriously offended for years. Papi has held a serious grudge his whole career, and Carlos Gomez too. 

     

    Speaking of Papi, there's your specific mistake.

     

    Anyway, I try to remind myself that when I root for a team, I'm rooting for the players who are on that team as much as the colors and the history of the team. I'm glad the Twins make this easier. I reason that the players are playing for the team, for each other, and that they want to win for themselves, for each other, for the team- all the more so if the team has treated them with respect. I don't think the players are playing for me, a fan. The team plays because that's what it does. It doesn't play for me. It's not trying to win for me, for the fans. 

     

    As for the notion of firing Molitor, mid-season or after: they won't, and that's good. Even if it were a good decision baseball-wise (which it probably isn't) it would be dishonorable and disgraceful. It would be extremely disrespectful to Molitor, a Hall-of-Famer, a former Twin, and a Minnesota native. I don't think, in the grand scheme of things, any management direction alternative to Molitor is worth the disrespect. Personally, my preference at the time of the search for Gardy's replacement was Mientkewitcz, but whatever, Molitor is the guy, and he's fine, and he's an all-time great, so that's cool too- all the better if it's him that brings home a title. 

     

    I think the Twins will return to winning baseball in the next few seasons, and I think they are building to stay a winning team for several seasons beyond. I think watching those teams is going to be extremely gratifying and fun because they will be comprised of players we have watched the organization draft and develop, and it will be fun to have a hall of famer minnesota native at the helm. As for TR, I hope he's still the guy when his work comes to fruition, and this time I hope he's ready and willing to make the little tweaks and additions necessary to win it all. I'll have to reserve my judgement of him until then.

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