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  • The Twins Bullpen Is Set (And You’re Not Going To Love It)


    John  Bonnes

    The Twins made their final bullpen roster moves today, reassigning Nick Tepesch and Alex Wimmers to minor league camp. While the official roster is not set, those moves clarify the likely bullpen. It is not an impressive group.

    Brandon Kintzler will return as a closer. The 32-year-old took over the closer job for the Twins last year when Glen Perkins was injured and saved 17 games. He also struck out 5.8 guys per nine innings pitched, which puts him well below the average strikeout rate of a major league pitcher (which is 8.1 K/9), let alone a major league closer.

    Image courtesy of © Denny Medley-USA TODAY Sports

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    Free agent signee Matt Belisle will be one of the right-handed setup men. He is 36 years old and this is his fourth team in the last four years. His strikeout rate last year was 6.8 K/9. He and Kintzler have been effective, but It is safe to posit that on many teams, they would be trusted to be seventh inning setup men, at best. Indeed, that was their role on their teams the year before they joined the Twins.

    The other right-handed setup men have a little more upside, but fewer results. Ryan Pressly is 28 years old and put up an average strikeout rate (8.0 K/9) and showed added velocity during spring training. Michael Tonkin is even younger (27 years old) and had an even higher strikeout rate (10.0 K/9), but was homer-prone last year (13 HR in 71.1 IP) and again in spring training (3 HR in 12.1 IP). He had a poor spring training and it is likely that being out of options (which means the Twins could lose him if he didn’t make the roster) is why he made the roster.

    The left-handed relievers have a similar "veteran/youngster" profile as the right-handers. The veteran is Craig Breslow, a 36-year-old who the Twins signed on a minor-league deal this offseason. The “youngster” is 26-year-old Taylor Rogers who is truly tough on lefties (547 OPS against in 2016) but is unlikely to expand that role due to his troubles against right-handed hitters (811 OPS against in 2016).

    Finally, the swingman will be 25-year-old Justin Haley, who is also likely on the roster due to his status as a Rule 5 pick. If he did not make the roster, the Twins would need to return him to the Red Sox.

    It’s not difficult to justify each of these players having a spot in a major league bullpen. And with the exception of the decision to demote JT Chargois, it’s probably the best group that could come north with the team. But this is a group of back-of-the-bullpen talents, some of which are going to be saddled with high-leverage bullpen roles.

    Twins manager Paul Molitor seems to understand this. “I think we’re going to have to do some mixing and matching towards the end,” said Molitor last week, “with Kintzler on the backside, so, we’ll see how it goes.”

    There is a scenario where this bullpen is successful. “My hope is that between the experience and the talent - some still developing - that it’s going to be better,” said Molitor. But there are a lot of scenarios where the opposite is true and the lack of tools that are at Molitor’s discretion is an organizational problem.

    The one thing a bad team should be able to do is find good relief arms; they have all the advantages in that area. They have the first pick in waivers. They have innings to invest. They have opportunities for under-the-radar free agents. They have higher draft picks. They can trade veterans for younger, still developing arms. The advantages go on and on. That the Twins have utterly failed in this area after six years of futility is the most damning indictment of the Terry Ryan front office.

    But just so we’re clear, the new leadership has not garnered immediate results either. The biggest change so far is adding the journeyman reliever Belisle. There were no obvious diamonds in the rough discovered in spring training this year that provide hope that 2017 will be any better than the previous six years.

    We'll see how it goes. The tension that Twins fans will feel at the end of ballgames is, for now, the same as the tension fans of the other 29 teams feel as their bullpen tries to nail down a win. But the feeling today - of skepticism after six years of cringing - is uniquely their own.

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    Not a fan of keeping Tonkin, IMO he's always going to be more potential than results.  Don't know why we had to get Breslow either. O'Rourke can get lefties out.

    To be fair, O'Rourke's hurt and will start the season on the DL. Not a fan of keeping Tonkin around either.

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    Very little about this bullpen surprises me, and even less impresses me.

     

    I can't wrap my head around continued for success for Kintzler due to his inability to miss bats.

     

    Breslow hasn't been good for a while, Belisle has been OK the last few years, but late-30s pitchers scare me as they can drop off quickly.

     

    Rogers = cool.

     

    Pressly = cool.

     

    Tonkin, I'm lukewarm on. If he can do something about giving up long balls at a Radkeian pace, and it'd be nice to see the inherited runs % drop some more. I do, however, like his arm and am hopeful that not being a de facto long man will help.

     

    Haley? I don't think they would've really missed out on much by letting him go back to Boston, but is there anyone better and ready for that role right now?

     

    I think this is going to be rough season on the mound.

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    I too would have liked more interesting options acquired this winter.

     

    But not much more you could do with this group, right now.

     

    Given their past usage of Tonkin, I don't think they will hesitate to drop him when a better option comes along, so that's good.  In the meantime, might as well roll with him again.

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    Weird title, as if we thought Andrew Miller might sneak in there.

     

    The bullpen is the last place the Twins should be addressing right now.  Falvey and Levine are under no illusions about this team's chances.  They have a Herculean task of finding a pitching staff for an eventual contender, and I'm sure out of that, a few relievers will be found.  They also will have the full year to make those acquisitions a bad team can make (waiver claims, etc).

     

    More interesting is the rotation, because Santana, Hughes, and Santiago will in no way be a part of the eventual contender.  So the questions are all about whether Gibson will show anything positive, and who among Berrios, Duffey, Mejia, Gonsalves (!), and Romero will be considered true rotation guys for that contender.  It will be a long wait for Hunter Greene, so who will emerge or be acquired in the meantime?

     

    The relief is a question for one or two years from now.  If the Twins somehow blow our minds and contend this year, well, you can't spend your time and resources preparing for the flukey when there are so many important issues to address.

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    Weird title, as if we thought Andrew Miller might sneak in there.

     

    The bullpen is the last place the Twins should be addressing right now.  Falvey and Levine are under no illusions about this team's chances.  They have a Herculean task of finding a pitching staff for an eventual contender, and I'm sure out of that, a few relievers will be found.  They also will have the full year to make those acquisitions a bad team can make (waiver claims, etc).

     

    More interesting is the rotation, because Santana, Hughes, and Santiago will in no way be a part of the eventual contender.  So the questions are all about whether Gibson will show anything positive, and who among Berrios, Duffey, Mejia, Gonsalves (!), and Romero will be considered true rotation guys for that contender.  It will be a long wait for Hunter Greene, so who will emerge or be acquired in the meantime?

     

    The relief is a question for one or two years from now.  If the Twins somehow blow our minds and contend this year, well, you can't spend your time and resources preparing for the flukey when there are so many important issues to address.

     

    A team can work on the bullpen and the rotation and hitters all at the same time. This thread is about the bullpen

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    I actually kinda like Kintzler as closer. Out of 135 qualified relievers, he ranked 4th in BB% and 9th in GB% last season. A good amount of the time, you're just asking him to get three outs before he gives up three runs anyway. Looks like he entered the game with a three-run lead in eight of the 17 games he got saves in last year.

     

    My bigger concern is getting to the save situations in the first place. Who's the shutdown guy you can turn to to get a key strikeout with runners on in the 6th/7th/8th innings to keep the game in reach? Pressly, I guess? Will be interesting to see how things shake out. 

     

    I want a guy like that putting out fires in the sixth, not creating them in the ninth. 

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    Three Rule 5 relievers have already been returned. Any of them more interesting than Tonkin or Haley?

     

    Caleb Smith: http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=smith-005cal

     

    Tyler Jones (former Twin!): http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=jones-002tyl

     

    Hoby Milner: http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=milner001hob

     

    Jones is actually slightly older than Tonkin...

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    I too would have liked more interesting options acquired this winter.

     

    But not much more you could do with this group, right now.

     

    Given their past usage of Tonkin, I don't think they will hesitate to drop him when a better option comes along, so that's good.  In the meantime, might as well roll with him again.

     

    I will raise my hand if someone asks who thinks Tonkin's been given enough rope.  I doubt  any "wow" reliever gets cut, so Tonkin basically gets one more chance to prove he belongs.  When he fails this last time, and a better option comes along, I would expect Tonkin to be a Cincinnati Red via waiver claim. Or, if the AL gets first shot, I would expect Tonkin to be a Cincinnati Red via waiver claim  (okay, maybe the Whities, A's or Angels give him a shot).

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    I'm not giving them a pass. I question the Chargois move, for sure... but what bothers me the most was the acquisition of Belisle and Breslow, really.

     

    Just go get a decent reliever and pay a few bucks. Big deal, this payroll is too low anyway. No $12m contract over two years is going to hurt this team in any meaningful fashion. Nick's latest article sold me a bit on the Breslow deal, though. Really good info in that piece but more could have been done with the bullpen and it wouldn't cost much to do it.

     

    There was enough room in the pen to fit a decent reliever, a mediocre vet, and a young guy.

     

    This is my one criticism of the new FO regarding the off-season. A sad carryover, but I hold hope it's a one-off phenomenon unlike the previous FO.

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    I've posted this before. Let's say you walk into a bar mid-conversation. You hear "He's a decent reliever that throws hard." Would you narrow that down to Tonkin? Or is that describing 7 other relievers available in the minors?

    You think relievers with Tonkin's minor-league numbers, and a 10 K/9 rate over a full big-league season, grow on trees? 

     

    And you're telling me that if he were to end up somewhere else on waivers, turning into the quality setup man that both his AAA numbers and MLB K/BB suggest is possible, you're not going to be wringing your hands about the Twins letting him go because they favored Alex Wimmers?

     

     

    I actually kinda like Kintzler as closer. Out of 135 qualified relievers, he ranked 4th in BB% and 9th in GB% last season. A good amount of the time, you're just asking him to get three outs before he gives up three runs anyway. Looks like he entered the game with a three-run lead in eight of the 17 games he got saves in last year.

    Problem is that he's not often going to get a three-run lead, especially considering that this is the Twins. More often he'll be trying to guard a one or two run lead, and in those situations a few grounders with eyes can erase that lead in a hurry, by no real fault of his own.

    You need K's in the 9th. Kintzler is a much better fit as a middle reliever, particularly since his efficiency makes him a good candidate to handle multiple frames.

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    I didn't think we had much choice. I'm not sure we have ant young arms good enough and certainly not deserving enough to break with. Other than maybe Mejia/Duffy who they want to stat, and Chargois maybe. If Jay is ready, I'd like to project his service time anyway.

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    I would expect Tonkin to be a Cincinnati Red via waiver claim. Or, if the AL gets first shot, I would expect Tonkin to be a Cincinnati Red via waiver claim  (okay, maybe the Whities, A's or Angels give him a shot).

    FYI, league is only the top priority for August trade waiver claims.  For outright assignment/release waiver claims, the first priority is record regardless of league.

     

    http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3525

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    You think relievers with Tonkin's minor-league numbers, and a 10 K/9 rate over a full big-league season, grow on trees? 

     

    And you're telling me that if he were to end up somewhere else on waivers, turning into the quality setup man that both his AAA numbers and MLB K/BB suggest is possible, you're not going to be wringing your hands about the Twins letting him go because they favored Alex Wimmers?

     

    Yep. I think there's already a few of them down in the minors right now. 

     

    Tonkin minor league career K/9 - 9.3

    Melotakis - 8.6

    Nick Burdi - 12.6

    Jake Reed - 8.78

    Jay - 8.7

     

    All of them can be described as decent relievers that throw hard.

     

    To answer your second paragraph.... No. Wouldn't wring my hands over Tonkin having a good season elsewhere. I know you've been a Tonkin apologist for a long time. He's a typical middle relief pitcher.  

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    While looking at reliever stats, I noticed Minnesota native Brad Hand had a pretty good relief season with the Padres last year.  He was claimed off waivers from the Marlins last April.

     

    Off the top of my head, Will Harris was an Astros waiver claim from the 2014-2015 offseason and has turned out pretty good too.

     

    Hopefully the Twins can make some good claims in the next month (and hopefully they have the lowest waiver priority in the league after that :) ).

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    Yep. I think there's already a few of them down in the minors right now. 

     

    Tonkin minor league career K/9 - 9.3

    Melotakis - 8.6

    Nick Burdi - 12.6

    Jake Reed - 8.78

    Jay - 8.7

     

    All of them can be described as decent relievers that throw hard.

     

    To answer your second paragraph.... No. Wouldn't wring my hands over Tonkin having a good season elsewhere. I know you've been a Tonkin apologist for a long time. He's a typical middle relief pitcher.  

    I wouldn't quite put Tonkin in that group today.  Beyond K rate, he's actually dominated in the high minors and shown signs of success in MLB too.  And not necessarily because he's older -- he first reached AAA and MLB at age 23, although he's hung around now for a few years.

     

    He's obviously not a sure thing, but I think he clearly deserves one more chance over the alternatives available today.  Even if reliever moves are by definition pretty low-margin, I would have been upset had we cut him today in favor of Wimmers.

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    I wouldn't quite put Tonkin in that group today.  Beyond K rate, he's actually dominated in the high minors and shown signs of success in MLB too.  And not necessarily because he's older -- he first reached AAA and MLB at age 23, although he's hung around now for a few years.

     

    He's obviously not a sure thing, but I think he clearly deserves one more chance over the alternatives available today.  Even if reliever moves are by definition pretty low-margin, I would have been upset had we cut him today in favor of Wimmers.

     

    Must have missed that success in between the moon shots from his off-speed pitches. If others will feel better looking at Tonkin for another 2 months before deciding to pull the plug, that's fine. I jumped off the bandwagon about 15 miles ago. 

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    Justin Haley looks like a bright spot this spring. He's big, strong, young, works fast, downward plane, stays around the zone, live arm. If Haley takes the long man role from Tonkin, that allows Tonkin to work more as a setup guy, keeping his arm fresher. 

     

    Otherwise, the only reason I see to start the season with a back end of older veterans is if the Twins aim to replace them in coming months with guys like Chargois, Wimmers and whoever gets hot in Rochester or Chattanooga. 

     

    Speaking of AAA and AA, take a look at their pitching rosters. Whew, there's a lot of young arm talent bubbling up! I didn't realize all these guys were now in AA...

    Seven youngest pitchers on the Lookouts:

     

    Fernando Romero 
    Kohl Stewart 
    Stephen Gonsalves
    Randy Rosario
    Tyler Jay
    Felix Jorge
    Nick Burdi

     

    That's half a future pitching staff right there. Then combine that with these guys...

    Four youngest pitchers on the Red Wings:

     

    Jose Berrios 
    Jake Reed
    Mason Melotakis
    J.T. Chargois

     

    The future looks pretty good.

    More or less my thoughts.  Bullpen should be the last piece of roster construction.  As long as they are trotting out Ervin Santana and a bunch of 4/5s to start, there is no point to spending money on a bullpen.  Figure out the starting rotation, let some of the young bullpen arms come up over the next year or two when they are ready, and fill in the gaps via trade/free agency down the road.

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    Must have missed that success in between the moon shots from his off-speed pitches. If others will feel better looking at Tonkin for another 2 months before deciding to pull the plug, that's fine. I jumped off the bandwagon about 15 miles ago. 

    10 K/9 over a full MLB season, versus only 3 BB/9, is a sign of success.  If Chargois or one of the relievers you listed had already done that, I'd probably want them on the roster too.

     

    Is there a better alternative than Tonkin to plug in today?  Surely not Wimmers.  Probably not quite Chargois yet either.  I could have gotten behind a theoretical winter acquisition taking his spot, but today I just don't see one in the org.  No point in flushing that away today for no good reason.

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    10 K/9 over a full MLB season, versus only 3 BB/9, is a sign of success. If Chargois or one of the relievers you listed had already done that, I'd probably want them on the roster too.

     

    Is there a better alternative than Tonkin to plug in today? Surely not Wimmers. Probably not quite Chargois yet either. I could have gotten behind a theoretical winter acquisition taking his spot, but today I just don't see one in the org. No point in flushing that away today for no good reason.

    5.02 ERA

    1.63 hr/9

    1.45 whip

    10 h/9

     

    Are bigger signs of failure imo.

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    I will give the new FO a pass on this one. You can't make a good chicken salad if you are starting with chicken sh##. The young guys weren't quite ready and until we show improvement What vet wants to sign with us. This bullpen will be totally turned over by the mid season mark. I am hopeful that the new FO is looking at this with the approach of evaluate as we go and then make the harder decisions. Our young guys aren't quite ready but they will be solid.

    Edited by Twinfan & Dad
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    Problem is that he's not often going to get a three-run lead, especially considering that this is the Twins. More often he'll be trying to guard a one or two run lead, and in those situations a few grounders with eyes can erase that lead in a hurry, by no real fault of his own.

    You need K's in the 9th. Kintzler is a much better fit as a middle reliever, particularly since his efficiency makes him a good candidate to handle multiple frames.

    I get what you're saying, but it seems like most of the time closers don't throw in as many close games as top setup men. The following rant has more to do with closing in general than Kintzler/the Twins.

     

    Consider these usage numbers from the Orioles bullpen in close games last year.

     

    Percentage of games entered with the score either tied or within one run
    46.5% Brad Brach (33/71)
    43.9% Mychal Givens (29/66)
    34.8% Zach Britton (24/69)

     

    And just for fun, a couple other data points on the best setup man and the guy who led the league in saves ...

    50.7% Dellin Betances (37/73)

    35.9% Jeurys Familia (28/78)

    Looks like 11 of Britton's 47 saves and 14 of Familia's 51 came when they entered with a three-run lead. No offense to relievers, but Eduardo Escobar should be able to get three outs before he gives up three runs more often than not.

     

    Britton had maybe the greatest season a relief pitcher has ever put together, but since he had the limitations of the closer role put on him, there were multiple other relievers even on his own team who threw more high-pressure innings.

     

    I know calling the closer role stupid at this point isn't very controversial, but I also don't think it's going anywhere. So my argument is I want the closer on my team to be the second or maybe even third best guy in the bullpen, freeing up my studs to come in for the most high-stress situations, no matter the inning.

     

    So the reason why I like Kintzler as closer on the Twins right now isn't because I think he's their best reliever. Actually, it's the complete opposite.

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