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  • Ryan Dismissal Leaves Many Questions


    Seth Stohs

    Like most, I was sitting at my desk at work on Monday morning. At about 11:20, I checked my e-mail and there it was, “Minnesota Twins Announce General Manager Terry Ryan Has Been Relieved of His Duties.” Like most, my attention was on that topic for much of the rest of the day. My mind was racing, so many thoughts, ideas and questions running through my mind.

    In the afternoon, CEO Jim Pohlad and President Dave St. Peter spoke to the media at Target Field. After reading and hearing their comments, there wasn’t any more clarity. There were, however, more questions.

    Image courtesy of Brad Rempel, USA Today

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    Before we get to the questions, I’m going to take a moment to share some thoughts on Terry Ryan. As you’ve noticed, most people who know Ryan or have worked in any capacity start discussions today with what a terrific person that he is. Then they go on to, typically, state that despite that, the Twins needed to make a change. It’s hard to argue with any of that. Terry Ryan has always treated me with the utmost respect and been upfront and as honest as he can be. He has been very helpful to me and accepting of Twins Daily. I have always enjoyed each opportunity and I have had to converse with Ryan and feel like I learn something each time whether or not we’re even talking about baseball.

    For me, Terry Ryan was always someone I admired. I look at what he did in the late 90s to set up the success the Twins had for most of the decade of 2000. Signing veterans and then trading them to acquire more young talent. Building a farm system and building a winner on a budget. As a blogger who started in 2003, I enjoyed seeing the transactions and trying to figure out what Ryan was doing. I recall seemingly any time I wrote something about the Twins being out of it, they would find a way to get themselves back into contention.

    Unfortunately, since his return, the Twins have had many low moments, and there have been fewer positive turn-arounds.

    When Ryan reclaimed the GM position, I sent him a quick note. He responded relatively quickly and noted “we won’t take any shortcuts.”

    He set out to help re-establish and repopulate the Twins minor league system. And you know what… he did just that. The last few years, the Twins have been one of the top three minor league organizations by most who rank those types of things. In the last couple of seasons, we have begun to see some of the talented players who have helped the Twins to those rankings. And the farm system is still stacked with terrific talent.

    Think about it for a moment. Ryan made the focus of the organization development of the minor league system. Miguel Sano, Byron Buxton, Max Kepler, and Jorge Polanco all have a lot of room to grow as players. Jose Berrios will take off at some point, and within the next two or three years the likes of Kohl Stewart, Stephen Gonsalves, Tyler Jay, Felix Jorge, Fernando Romero and some others have a chance to round out a solid rotation. Taylor Rogers, Trevor May, Michael Tonkin and Ryan Pressly are developing this year and will lead the way as JT Chargois, Nick Burdi, Mason Melotakis and Trevor Hildenberger are on their way. In some ways, I think that whoever takes over as the next Twins general manager is going to look pretty smart when so many of these young, talented players reach their potential.

    Will Terry Ryan get credit when this team takes off thanks to the core of young players that developed under his watch?

    That’s one question I have, and here are some more questions I have after today.

    What’s up with the timing of this decision?

    My first organizational thought after my initial surprise at the Twins move was, why did they make this decision less than two weeks from this year’s August 1st trade deadline? That certainly puts Rob Antony, who was named the interim GM, in a tough position. Then again, he will be supported by the Twins current front office, scouts and player personnel staff.

    Will Rob Antony get a legitimate shot to have the interim-label removed?

    All indications from Monday’s discussions seem to indicate that the Twins will look to hire someone from outside the organization. However, the track record of the organization would certainly indicate that he will be given an opportunity. How he handled the trade deadline and, frankly, how the team performs may be his interview for the job. Maybe that is why Terry Ryan resigned when he did, to give Antony an opportunity to show what he can do, his style, etc.

    Should Rob Antony get a legitimate shot at the full-time GM job?

    Among Twins fans, the general sentiment seems to be that they have to go outside the organization to change the culture. When Antony’s name comes up, fans like to bring up the spring training when Antony took over the reigns when Ryan was working through his cancer treatments and recovery. They like to bring up the decision to keep Jason Kubel and Jason Bartlett on the Opening Day roster. First, that’s a very small sample size. All other reports indicate that Antony has done a nice job as Ryan’s assistant GM. He is well respected among players and scouts for his negotiations in arbitration and free agencies. He’s being given a lot of credit, by Eduardo Nunez, for bringing him to the Twins. And yes, he has been involved in the current ‘regime,’ but that doesn’t mean that things would be exactly the same under Antony’s leadership. Maybe they would be, but my assumption is that Antony would be willing to do some things differently. In general, I just don’t like the idea that it has to be someone from outside the organization.

    Should the Twins go outside the organization for their GM hire?

    To appease the fan base, it is probably a good idea to hire someone from outside. While the Twins have implemented many more systems throughout the minor leagues and added more statistical analysis, it is never a bad idea to look elsewhere for new and fresh ideas. If nothing else, the Twins ownership group needs to take time to consider what is happening in other organizations and reassess their own expectations for a GM or other roles in the organization.

    So, who will make the hire? Who will sit in on the interviews?

    From various interviews, it does appear that the Twins could use a search firm to develop a list or candidates or even make a recommendation. However, it will be Jim Pohlad and Dave St. Peter who will have the final say. St. Peter even said that he would likely talk about candidates with Tom Kelly.

    I’m not a huge fan of search firms, but I don’t know that Pohlad and St. Peter are necessarily the right people to make the decision on the next General Manager. I have my doubts.

    More important, what are these two looking for in a GM?

    In May, I wrote up many of the roles, responsibilities and requirements for a GM. I would hope that the owner and president would provide a search firm a very, very detailed list of exactly what they are looking for in the next GM.

    Will Rob Antony be given full rein to do as he sees best for the Twins organization during this trade deadline?

    We are being told that he will not be limited. We are told that they have complete confidence in Antony to do what is best for the organization. This is such a big trade deadline with some very difficult decisions to make. Which players will or should be traded? How will he do in terms of negotiating prospect returns? The tough part of this is that those trades really can’t be graded for several years.

    The unfortunate thing for Antony is that he will be trading veterans and getting back non-big name prospects. Most fans will respond to any Twins trade returns with “Who is that?” Some will say, “That’s all Antony was able to get for (insert Nunez, Kintzler, Abad, Escobar, Santana, Nolasco here)?” He could trade Brian Dozier for a bigger return and make a bigger splash, but then critics will question that decision as well. It’s a tough situation for Antony to be thrust into, but again it’s probably the only option to give him some experience to add to his resume.

    Should the Twins wait until after the season to decide?

    Well, Pohlad has said that they are going to start their search right away and would like to name their new GM even before the season ends. Is this wise? There are only 30 MLB General Manager jobs available. Each year, maybe one, possibly two GM jobs are available (if that many), so these jobs don’t come around real often. By starting this process and making a decision early, they will get a headstart on other GM jobs that may open up in the offseason (if any).

    The downside is that there may be playoff-contending teams that won’t let their employees apply or interview for this job until after their seasons. In other words, it’s possible that a couple of potential candidates may not be available for this reason.

    Is the Twins General Manager a desirable position that candidates should seek?

    It absolutely should be a job that people would want. As I wrote earlier, the talent accumulated by Ryan and Company will make the next GM look really smart over the next couple of years. There is a lot of talent. Secondly, as I mentioned earlier, there are only 30 Major League GM jobs available. These jobs don’t come along, so there should be plenty of strong options for Pohlad and St. Peter to consider. Finally, if the team has any form of success with the GM, the organization is very loyal. It’s a job that could come with a lot of leeway.

    How does this affect the rest of the Twins front office?

    For the short-term, it doesn’t. Rob Antony takes over as interim GM. They continue in their roles, supporting Antony. But if someone else is chosen as the General Manager, you would think that he (or she) would come with some of his own personnel. I personally hope that the new GM would be open to keeping at least some of the current staff. Would a new GM expand upon Jack Goin’s current analytical group, or would he bring in his own people? How will Mike Radcliff, the Twins director of player personnel and long-time employee who, like Ryan, has given up several opportunities to be with other organizations, fit into the organization? Does Deron Johnson remain the team’s scouting director? Does Brad Steil remain the Twins minor league director? I don’t think we know.

    Pohlad has said that Paul Molitor will be the Twins manager in 2017 regardless of who the GM is. Why would he do that? How does it affect the on-field coaching staff?

    I have no idea why Pohlad would say that a GM can't make decide on his own manager 2017, year one of his or her tenure. Look at any sport and a new GM will almost always want to insert his own choice for manager or coach. Often, he will allow the current coach to stick around, but he is basically a lame duck and it doesn’t take long for a new coaching staff to be brought in. For the remainder of 2016, the coaching staff is most likely safe. The manager appears safe for at least the start of 2017, but beyond that I can’t imagine the coaching staff has a lot of job security.

    Will the Twins bring back Terry Ryan in some capacity sometime in the future?

    It is certainly possible that Ryan will come back to the Twins in some capacity, similar to Ron Gardenhire or Bill Smith? Obviously there is no way to know that answer right now. Pohlad and St. Peter indicate that they believe Ryan will seek a job elsewhere at this time. And he should. He is likely to have several offers to be a scout down the stretch for a winning team, or maybe a scouting director for a team as we go forward.

    I get that there is a strong percentage of fandom that hates that they would bring back the likes of Smith or Gardenhire. I’m certainly on the complete opposite end of that spectrum. Bill Smith was a very good employee for the Twins for 20-25 years before his stint as the GM. He had a lot of strong qualities. Why would an organization not take advantage of those qualities. Since his return, he has been used in roles away from the baseball operations group. He has been very instrumental in the renovations at Hammond Stadium, the player academy in Ft. Myers, and will be key in the development of the new academy in the Dominican Republic. Gardenhire had a lot of success as a coach and a manager in the organization. He has a lot of knowledge to share, or can be an ear for minor league managers to talk to. After taking some time off, his return has been appreciated throughout the system. I don’t know why an organization wouldn’t want smart baseball people involved in the organization if they are still interested. And, for me, I would want to work in a culture where people like that are welcomed back. To me, it says a lot (positively) about the Twins culture brought about through the leadership of Terry Ryan.

    If Ryan would ever be willing to come back in an advisory role in the scouting department, I’d certainly be willing to bring him back. I don’t know that he would want that though.

    That is a bunch of questions after the dismissal of Terry Ryan. And you may have more in mind. Please feel free to ask more questions or answer some of these in the Comments below.

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    Seth, my first thought was here comes a salary dump. In the short term by the trade deadline, followed by additional moves in the off-season to minimize payroll. Do you think I'm overreacting?

    Payroll should go down just by virtue of going younger.  I don't think it's really something to be paranoid or upset about, it should be expected.  I would say if that is how you're reacting, that would be overreacting.  

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    Fact:  The Twins had a better record under Bill Smith (or any other GM) than they did under Ryan.   

     

    So are you saying that Antony will lead the Twins in more wins than Ryan?   I am not that sure.  What made Smith a good GM is that he was willing to delegate and listen to baseball people about baseball decisions. And that he had the guts to make those decisions.  What made Smith a bad GM was that he was listening to the wrong people about those baseball decisions (the likes of Gardenhire & Radcliff & Rantz.)

    The Twins were in 2 very different places when Ryan and Smith took over so I'm not sure overall record is a fair assessment of their tenure. I believe he was talking about the slew of terrible trades/baseball decisions Smith made during his time as GM. Whether or not he had people in his ear, the final decision was his and he ultimately had to bear responsibility. His time was totally negative, the Twins signed and drafted most of the young talent we're seeing right now under Smith's watch. Acquiring talent wasn't an issue for him, the problem was assessing the value of it and holding onto it. 

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    We will find out if the Twins do have a plan.

     

    Maybe they aren't doing a total retool, ala Atlanta Braves. But the number of possible prospects is mind-boggling. What has to be decided is the direction the franchise wishes to take.
     

    Looking at the players the Twins overpaid, they are probably seeing that no one is knocking down the door to get players from them. Why trade when the Twins might release. Why get someone expensive when someone equally as good is available at a lower price. Why get someone that is being pushed aside by a Twins prospect.

     

    Every single season a team makes a signing mistake. A player gets injured and their career downslides. You are forced to cover a bad contract. The Twins have been hit hard...Ryan getting the blame for spending Pohlad's money in free agency (as we all wanted him to do rather than let them keep it) on a half-dozen failed starters.

     

    On the flipside, he didn't keep "our" free agents, with the money Target Field was sending our way...which to me reads that a player shouldn't expect a home town discount anymore. We lost Nathan, Cuddyer, whatever. 

     

    I do admire when Ryan picks up those minor league free agents. Problem is, the AAA (and AA) roster is full of more of these guys than necessary, and if you find space for them in the majors, then you have something wrong when the worst of another team's players can find space on your roster. Sure, a percentage will shine...because they like playing in the majors and want to play in the majors. But that doesn't necessarily create a winning team.

     

    Right now, we will cry if the Twins trade away the contracts. But we will be getting salary relief. And 2015 was a box-office success for the Twins, this year we have yet to see what the doldrums of August and definitely September will do to the Twins coffers. But any money saved...what happens to it. Will they overspend down the road, still harp at that magic 55% nuber (although you can be assured that they won't be at 55% the next couple of seasons). We hear words from Pohlad that he never prevented Ryan from signing a player, but why did Ryan feel handcuffed to make his money go further with many middle-line players.

     

    The team may be a glorious grab for a general manager who wants to do something. but will he get carte blanc with the prospects, no payroll constraints. Does he really have to keep the same field staff next season. Will management look and listen when a guy talks about building towards 2018 and 2019...who is that "remain competitive within the division" mindset still there for 2017 and just as long as butts show up for the seats, the powers-that-be remain happy.

     

    And, sad to say, the Twins have to address the Joe Mauer issue. Is he still the face of the franchise? Is he blocking us from playing equally as good players (and cheaper) at first or DH. Is this the field playing salary cog that the Twins have to live with for a couple more years, and then make a decision again to keep him around for another 4-5 years in case he does remain a Hall of Famer or All-Star.

     

    Who will be the next great players on the Minnesota Twins? Can they afford to keep them? Will they continue to look towards solid team players who play "The Twins Way" (hummm...Tom Kelly in the GM decisionmaking process). Or will they gamble, take REAL chances. The flurry of past signing endeavors add up to quite a few failures that could've ben one Big success, if played correctly.

     

    Two weeks. We find out if the Twins overvalue their players or not. The month of August, we see if anyone cares to pick up salaries, or if the Twins eat a lot of crow.

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    Here's a interesting interview, from February 2011, with Rob Antony (by Jesse Lund at Twinkie Town, summary via MLBTR):

     

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/02/antony-on-nishioka-hardy-pavano-liriano-more.html

     

    "Tsuyoshi Nishioka first popped up on the team's radar after Antony mentioned to his agent that the team was looking to get more athletic on the infield." -- does that sound like Antony had healthy skepticism about Gardy's request?

     

    "Hardy was expected to make $5MM+ in 2011 (he eventually signed for $5.85MM), and the team "just decided that we wanted to put that money into other areas." The Twins had conversations with other teams about Hardy, but there were never any real offers. The trade with Baltimore was "by far [their] best opportunity to make a deal." -- does that sound like Antony really understood the value of Hardy as an asset?

     

    Now, maybe Antony has learned from those experiences, and the spring of 2014, but the fact that he made these decisions after many years experience in the front office doesn't inspire confidence that they were just simple rookie adjustments that needed to be made.  I suspect that he simply doesn't have the mindset and skill set of an effective MLB GM, which is no shame -- not many people do.  But that concern shouldn't be dismissed out of a sense of loyalty or fairness in our current GM search.

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    Tommy Milone got expensive but I'd still place him in the "well-done" pile as I'm confused why Oakland gave him away. With the way that starting pitching cost has escalated, it isn't until next year that it becomes a no-deal to pay Tommy Milone.

    The "no-deal to pay" threshold is a lot lower in Oakland.  Also, that threshold appears to have been met by most teams this year, as no one was interested in claiming Milone and his salary on waivers.  We'll see if it interests anyone at the deadline...

     

    (That said, I agree the trade was a solid move for the Twins.  Just probably not due to any special skill on TR's part. Same with Grossman, who was signed as the insurance outfielder after David Murphy suddenly retired. Although I worry that a GM like Smith or Antony would somehow manage to fall behind on these type of "standard GM" moves...)

    Edited by spycake
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    Yes Terry Ryan has done a good job finding talent out of the castoff pile but that's all about opportunity.

     

    The Twins have simply had more opportunity to give opportunity and I believe that is a major factor in what seems like success.

     

    I love that Grossman is getting a chance for Grossmans sake but at the same time... I'm kinda upset that we needed him. Grossman isn't a TR success story no matter how well he plays going forward... Grossman is a symptom of the failure because he is here.

     

    On Antony... No idea what kind of GM he would make and Seth is right when he says it isn't fair to judge him because of his relationship to Ryan. However... Ryan is either ignoring good advice or taking bad advice from those under him and that's why it can't be Antony. Way to risky to reach into that barrel of Apples when something is clearly spoiled.

     

    Hire from the outside just to be safe.

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    I think I explained that pretty well... in the non-on-field baseball things. The Twins do a great job in PR, in Marketing, in the stadium itself... all the non-baseball stuff... 

     

    That's why I'd be good with someone taking a president of baseball operations job and keep St. Peter doing those things that he does well. 

     

    By what, making the gameday experience less about the game and more about the "experience?"

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    On Antony... No idea what kind of GM he would make and Seth is right when he says it isn't fair to judge him because of his relationship to Ryan. However... Ryan is either ignoring good advice or taking bad advice from those under him and that's why it can't be Antony. Way to risky to reach into that barrel of Apples when something is clearly spoiled.

    This is a decent summation of my posts on Anthony too.  It would be one thing if Antony was a relative newcomer himself, but he's been assistant GM for almost 9 years now.  He's had plenty of opportunity to make his GM case beyond "respected at negotiating contracts".  The fact that he hasn't in any clear way is probably a sign that there isn't much case to be made.

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    Not acting out of fear is a terrible way to lead a business (or your life).

    I didn't see where I mentioned fear in my post.....  I was pointing out the reality of changing GM's/coaches etc., its a crapshoot.  Only time will tell whether it was the right move. 

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    I didn't see where I mentioned fear in my post.....  I was pointing out the reality of changing GM's/coaches etc., its a crapshoot.  Only time will tell whether it was the right move. 

     

    I must have read it wrong.....it seemed, to me, to imply that change was risky and shouldn't be made. Reader error, I guess.

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    I must have read it wrong.....it seemed, to me, to imply that change was risky and shouldn't be made. Reader error, I guess.

    Lots of guessing and speculation going on here :) !!!!

     

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    I think making general comments on how good Rob Antony would or wouldn't be as GM aren't fair. Yes, he worked for Ryan, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he would do everything exactly like Ryan. He may pick some things that worked well, and he may have other ideas for other things. Guilt by Association is a bad thing.

     

    I'm not saying Antony is or isn't the right person, but writing him off because he worked for Terry Ryan isn't right either. 

     

    I'm not going to pretend to know who the right person is. I know certain things I would like to see from a candidate. But if Theo Epstein came to the Twins, it doesn't mean they would be a perennial playoff team. Maybe, but not necessarily. 

     

    "Proven" or experienced GMs won't guarantee anything, and maybe hiring someone we've never heard of will prove to be the best thing. Who knows?

     

    This is exactly why Antony would not be a good pick, regardless of his audition. After all his time, his abilities are unknown? Around the league, assistant GMs, directors of player personnel and scouting directors can point to contributions to team accomplishments and have developed good reputations. Antony, after all this time, has not. What he has apparently touched was not successful. Even assuming he does OK in a few months as an interim, his accomplishments and known abilities would pale in comparison to many external candidates. To then get the job because of familiarity and a decent three months would be a bad message and a failure to get the best person.

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    I think I explained that pretty well... in the non-on-field baseball things. The Twins do a great job in PR, in Marketing, in the stadium itself... all the non-baseball stuff...

     

    That's why I'd be good with someone taking a president of baseball operations job and keep St. Peter doing those things that he does well.

     

    Keep Matt Hoy for internal ops, not St. Peter. St. Peter has been part of creating the current team culture, particularly on the administrative side, which is a large reason they're in this mess. Even the last year of Ruben Amaro, Jr. with the Phillies was way better than this - he made good trades for the future, an actual transition plan was in place before he left, etc. A real team president would have pushed for well-prepared transitions. After all, it shouldn't have come as a surprise that TR might leave during the season. In this unplanned, ad hoc transition, however, it seems that the only thing St. Peter has taken care of is St. Peter, such as by angling to have the next GM report to him.

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    Here's a interesting interview, from February 2011, with Rob Antony (by Jesse Lund at Twinkie Town, summary via MLBTR):

     

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/02/antony-on-nishioka-hardy-pavano-liriano-more.html

     

    "Tsuyoshi Nishioka first popped up on the team's radar after Antony mentioned to his agent that the team was looking to get more athletic on the infield." -- does that sound like Antony had healthy skepticism about Gardy's request?

     

    "Hardy was expected to make $5MM+ in 2011 (he eventually signed for $5.85MM), and the team "just decided that we wanted to put that money into other areas." The Twins had conversations with other teams about Hardy, but there were never any real offers. The trade with Baltimore was "by far [their] best opportunity to make a deal." -- does that sound like Antony really understood the value of Hardy as an asset?

     

    Now, maybe Antony has learned from those experiences, and the spring of 2014, but the fact that he made these decisions after many years experience in the front office doesn't inspire confidence that they were just simple rookie adjustments that needed to be made.  I suspect that he simply doesn't have the mindset and skill set of an effective MLB GM, which is no shame -- not many people do.  But that concern shouldn't be dismissed out of a sense of loyalty or fairness in our current GM search.

     

    The TR staff rarely admitted to mistakes, even after bad outcomes, instead saying they would do the same thing again, and then doing it again, with similar bad outcomes. How does someone learn from mistakes if they don't agree they are mistakes?

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    I think making general comments on how good Rob Antony would or wouldn't be as GM aren't fair. Yes, he worked for Ryan, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he would do everything exactly like Ryan. He may pick some things that worked well, and he may have other ideas for other things. Guilt by Association is a bad thing.

     

    I'm not saying Antony is or isn't the right person, but writing him off because he worked for Terry Ryan isn't right either. 

     

     

    Can we agree on this basic premise... Terry Ryan was fired because; 1) his team has been a total failure for the better part of 6 years now.  2) his team/ organization is universally considered woefully behind the times in terms of 21st century Major League Baseball.  3) Lack of innovation, new ideas, etc. has this team falling further and further behind their counterparts in each year that goes by.  

     

    Like or Dislike Terry Ryan, I don't think those points are all that much up for debate.  

     

    Now tell me how an organization that is so adverse to change, who finally realized those 3 points (amongst other things) and fired Terry Ryan... would be better off hiring the person who has been the #2 to Terry for so long, over practically anyone else from any other organization in baseball.  

     

    I will not even go into Rob Antony's baseball knowledge (or lack thereof), he could be the next great General Manager of another MLB franchise 3 years from all for all I know (I highly highly highly doubt this but I'll play along).  

     

    There is still ample evidence to suggest he should be no where near the next person in charge of fixing this organization.  

     

    And I don't know how any reasonable person can make an argument that THIS organization, that needs so much changing to keep up with the times and catch up to the rest of baseball.. will get that from hiring the guy who has been in the #2 seat all along

     

    - Sorry for rambling on, I may have talked in circles.  But to sum it up.  You like Rob Antony personally or are scared of change if you think he deserves the job.  There's literally no other reason

    Edited by alarp33
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    I'm OK with a salary dump simply because the only players I still want on this team come next year don't make much. Plouffe, Santana, Perkins, Nolasco, Mauer, Hughes? Man, if Anthony had some kind of magic potion and was able to lose those last four, even I might be on board with giving him a real shot.

    Anyone with 7000+ posts should know some of those contracts are not movable. My concern is those who will help us win in the near future, many of whom are board scapegoats. I would prefer not  hearing next year at this time, our favorite team has lost 90 games 6 of the last 7 years.

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    The need to go outside the organization for the GM is about the most obvious answer to a question out there.  If this were Jeopardy it would be a $100 question.

     

    The entire organization needs to be revamped because the incumbents, led by Terry Ryan, are not equipped to rebuild a baseball franchise.  We need a GM and maybe a manager that can work with and develop young players.  I don't know if we have people in the management structure up and down the minors and major leagues that can do that because they have all been ingrained in the very conservative approach that Ryan had.  

     

    This team is on a a 58-104 record pace yet we only have one pitcher under the age of 28 in our starting rotation, Of the remaining pitchers, 3 are marginal prospects 25/26  years of age (Rodgers, Mays, Tonkin), two are 27 (Pressley, Ramirez), and two journeymen over the age of 30.  

     

    But we leave Berrios, JT Chargois, and Hildenberger in the minor leagues.  

     

    HOw much worse can they be?  And the answer to that unasked question is why Terry Ryan is out of a job.

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    The need to go outside the organization for the GM is about the most obvious answer to a question out there.  If this were Jeopardy it would be a $100 question.

     

    The entire organization needs to be revamped because the incumbents, led by Terry Ryan, are not equipped to rebuild a baseball franchise.  We need a GM and maybe a manager that can work with and develop young players.  I don't know if we have people in the management structure up and down the minors and major leagues that can do that because they have all been ingrained in the very conservative approach that Ryan had.  

     

    This team is on a a 58-104 record pace yet we only have one pitcher under the age of 28 in our starting rotation, Of the remaining pitchers, 3 are marginal prospects 25/26  years of age (Rodgers, Mays, Tonkin), two are 27 (Pressley, Ramirez), and two journeymen over the age of 30.  

     

    But we leave Berrios, JT Chargois, and Hildenberger in the minor leagues.  

     

    HOw much worse can they be?  And the answer to that unasked question is why Terry Ryan is out of a job.

    I don't understand your fascination with age. All of them look just about average.

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    Anyone with 7000+ posts should know some of those contracts are not movable. My concern is those who will help us win in the near future, many of whom are board scapegoats. I would prefer not  hearing next year at this time, our favorite team has lost 90 games 6 of the last 7 years.

     

    You were among those most vocal about the "next year" stuff for quite some time.  At some point, you have to accept how things are likely to play out and this team would have to improve by 10-15 games next year just to be .500, much less a playoff team.  This team, at best, should be hoping to go back to being a .500 team on the rise next year. 

     

    And all those unmovable contracts are Ryan's fault.  Would it surprise anyone if he refused to concede that they were mistakes and the team was further away than he thought?  It'd match his rhetoric all year long and he's never been one to admit/reverse a mistake until it's well past the point of harming the team.

     

    Hopefully we will be dumping some of these guys, this 25 man roster needs serious turnover, regardless of who oversees it happening.

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    I think I explained that pretty well... in the non-on-field baseball things. The Twins do a great job in PR, in Marketing, in the stadium itself... all the non-baseball stuff...

     

    That's why I'd be good with someone taking a president of baseball operations job and keep St. Peter doing those things that he does well.

     

    I agree. St Peter is just fine for PR, promotions, community outreach etc.

     

    I still don't feel comfortable with him heavily involved in this GM call. If I'm Pohlad and I'm serious about getting the best candidate, I call the commissioner and the owners of the high revenue clubs and tell them that if they don't want me being a revenue sharing sieve, they need to lend a layman like me a hand.

     

    If there is no search firm, and the call all falls to St Peter and Pohlad, they'll deserve all the criticism about how the decision was about money, not winning, that will certainly ensue.

     

    Even if it's not true.

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    Fun fact... the Twins have 19 people in their "front office" that focus somewhat on player development/evaluation, outside of coaches. Probably even less that actually do "front office" type work.

     

    The Rays appear to have at least 37. The Pirates have about as many. Every team I looked up appear to have far more than the Twins. Not shocking stuff, but still I was kind of surprised to see how much personnel other teams were putting toward their player development/evaluation. The Cubs have several people who work on a "mental skills program". 

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    The "no-deal to pay" threshold is a lot lower in Oakland.  Also, that threshold appears to have been met by most teams this year, as no one was interested in claiming Milone and his salary on waivers.  We'll see if it interests anyone at the deadline...

     

    (That said, I agree the trade was a solid move for the Twins.  Just probably not due to any special skill on TR's part. Same with Grossman, who was signed as the insurance outfielder after David Murphy suddenly retired. Although I worry that a GM like Smith or Antony would somehow manage to fall behind on these type of "standard GM" moves...)

    He hasn't had a good enough year to get anything at the deadline. At this point he's just depth. But it wasn't crazy to think he could have a good/lucky start to the season and be moved if some twins minor league guys seemed ready. Didn't work out but the concept want awful.

     

    Hopefully those moves are based on scouting structures that go beyond one gm - they have guys they like in a list somewhere.

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    Here's a interesting interview, from February 2011, with Rob Antony (by Jesse Lund at Twinkie Town, summary via MLBTR):

     

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/02/antony-on-nishioka-hardy-pavano-liriano-more.html

     

    "Tsuyoshi Nishioka first popped up on the team's radar after Antony mentioned to his agent that the team was looking to get more athletic on the infield." -- does that sound like Antony had healthy skepticism about Gardy's request?

     

    "Hardy was expected to make $5MM+ in 2011 (he eventually signed for $5.85MM), and the team "just decided that we wanted to put that money into other areas." The Twins had conversations with other teams about Hardy, but there were never any real offers. The trade with Baltimore was "by far [their] best opportunity to make a deal." -- does that sound like Antony really understood the value of Hardy as an asset?

     

    Now, maybe Antony has learned from those experiences, and the spring of 2014, but the fact that he made these decisions after many years experience in the front office doesn't inspire confidence that they were just simple rookie adjustments that needed to be made.  I suspect that he simply doesn't have the mindset and skill set of an effective MLB GM, which is no shame -- not many people do.  But that concern shouldn't be dismissed out of a sense of loyalty or fairness in our current GM search.

    You have to love an emphasis on athleticism. It brings up so many questions. What is athleticism? How is it measured and how does that correlate to MLB success? And why does a 6-1 200 pound guy capable of both hitting 30 HR a year and playing SS not qualify as athletic?

     

    Are Nelson Cruz or Miguel Cabrera considered athletic? Bartolo Colon? David Wells? CC Sabathia? I bet Ben Revere is considered really athletic though.

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    You were among those most vocal about the "next year" stuff for quite some time.  At some point, you have to accept how things are likely to play out and this team would have to improve by 10-15 games next year just to be .500, much less a playoff team.  This team, at best, should be hoping to go back to being a .500 team on the rise next year. 

     

    And all those unmovable contracts are Ryan's fault.  Would it surprise anyone if he refused to concede that they were mistakes and the team was further away than he thought?  It'd match his rhetoric all year long and he's never been one to admit/reverse a mistake until it's well past the point of harming the team.

     

    Hopefully we will be dumping some of these guys, this 25 man roster needs serious turnover, regardless of who oversees it happening.

    TR didn't do Mauer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were one of the ones screaming the loudest for free agents in 2013.

     

    In August of 2013, I coined the phrase, the parade starts in 2015. I missed by 3 games. I predicted 90-72 this season. In 2010 or 2011, BA had an extensive article, by their standards, on the process of rebuilding small/mid-market teams. They said it would take a minimum of 5 years. 2017 is year 6. If we don't contend next year, I'll join The Dark Side.

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    TR didn't do Mauer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were one of the ones screaming the loudest for free agents in 2013.

     

    In August of 2013, I coined the phrase, the parade starts in 2015. I missed by 3 games. I predicted 90-72 this season. In 2010 or 2011, BA had an extensive article, by their standards, on the process of rebuilding small/mid-market teams. They said it would take a minimum of 5 years. 2017 is year 6. If we don't contend next year, I'll join The Dark Side.

     

    Absolutely, I wanted us to spend money.  I've also never been shy to share what I would do, sometimes it's been horribly wrong.  Last offseason I was pretty much batting 1.000, but that's rare.  Either way, I'm not paid to get these decisions right.  Ryan is.  And he's been getting them wrong for awhile now.

     

    You, under the guise of optimism, were setting unfair expectations for our prospects.  You can search my posts, you'll never find me advocating rushing prospects or predicting MVP awards for second year players, or any of that.  I preach patience because that's usually most fair.  

     

    But there need be no Light Side/Dark Side.  I'd prefer just being fair - that means when it's time to criticize, you do.  When it's time to be reasonable/understanding - you do.

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