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    Seth Stohs

    Terry Ryan and a large contingent of Minnesota Twins front office personnel are gathered in Nashville for the Winter Meetings. The goal for Ryan, and for every team, is to make his team better. We have written and discussed the topic ad nauseum in the Twins Daily pages since the end of the season. Some young Twins players will play a role in the Twins bullpen at some point in the near future. Today, I want to discuss two pitchers who I think could be prominent bullpen contributors right from the beginning of the 2016 season.

    There are going to be some difficult decisions next spring for Manager Paul Molitor in his second season and the helm. There are always tough decisions, but Molitor will have a lot of really quality options. When the team has needs in-season, they will have good options for replacement.

    You all have heard the names that some choose to joke about as getting starts in the last five years. There were three or four starting pitchers and a couple of bullpen arms at Rochester in 2015 who would have been called up quickly had this been 2012 or 2013.

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    This isn’t 2011 through 2014 anymore. In 2015, the Twins won 83 games and were not eliminated until their 161st game. It’s about winning now while at the same time doing what’s best for the players, short-term and long-term. Let’s discuss a couple of the young pitchers and where they should fit in 2016.

    Trevor May

    May came up in the second half of 2014 and went through some struggles. In 2015, he was set to start the season in Rochester, but Ervin Santana’s suspension pushed him into the starting rotation. May pitched all right as a starter. In 16 starts (83.1 IP), he went 4-8 with a 4.43 ERA and a 1.38 WHIP. The Twins made the decision that he would move to the bullpen in the second half when Tommy Milone returned to the team from AAA. In 32 games (31.1 IP) out of the bullpen, he was 4-1 with a 2.87 ERA, and a 1.21 WHIP. His fastball velocity increased noticeably when he knew that he just needed to go an inning or two.

    When May was moved to the bullpen, Ryan and Molitor said that he would go to spring training in 2016 with an opportunity to start again. They have stood by that as he will go to spring training with a chance. With Ervin Santana, Phil Hughes and Kyle Gibson marked in ink, and May competing with Tommy Milone, Tyler Duffey, JO Berrios and others for two rotation spots, May will have to be really good during spring to be in the rotation.

    Prediction: He will be in the bullpen. With a back end of the bullpen having Glen Perkins, Kevin Jepsen and May, that portion of the pen should be quite strong. In fact, we saw how strong it could be when Perkins was healthy.

    Taylor Rogers

    Rogers has been a starter all his life, in high school in Colorado, in college at Kentucky and all through his minor league career since being drafted in 2012. He was the Twins Daily Minor League Starting Pitcher of the Year in 2013. He’s been good the last two years as well. He was recently added to the Twins 40-man roster and worked 202 innings this year between Rochester and the Arizona Fall League.

    As a left-handed pitcher, he has two really good pitches against same-siders. While right-handers hit .326/.374/.457 (.831) with 28 doubles, four triples and nine home runs off him in AAA this year, he dominated left-handers. They hit just .177/.209/.193 (402) off of him. He gave up just three extra-base hits, all doubles.

    Reports I’ve gathered say that he has a good fastball (low-90s) and a tremendous slider. In fact, some have compared Rogers’ slider to Tyler Duffey’s curve ball. While Duffey has a fastball, curve ball and solid changeup, Rogers has not been able to turn his change into a pitch that can get right-handers off balance. If he could, he might be a mid-rotation starter, but most believe he can be a back-of-the-rotation starter, or even better out of the bullpen.

    Prediction: The Twins have six of seven starters ahead of Rogers, and we all know that JO Berrios is coming soon. Rogers turns 25 next week and could be a major contributor out of the Twins bullpen. In fact, Terry Ryan said Monday afternoon that Rogers would go to spring training competing for a bullpen job. They could send him back to Rochester and hope that his changeup develops so that he can be a fifth starter, or they could utilize him right away as a solid lefty reliever.

    Names like Tony Sipp or Antonio Bastardo might (emphasis on might) provide stability from the left side for three years, or at least parts of those three years. They’re the big names of the offseason. I have no problem with ponying up to add one name reliever that the organization feels can hold up.

    However, rather than bringing back middling lefties like Neal Cotts or Brian Duensing, I would recommend giving Rogers a shot. Maybe they give him a month of two in Rochester to get used to working out of the bullpen and start the season with Ryan O’Rourke or Logan Darnell (who could also work in long relief). But at some point, Rogers should be in the Twins bullpen.

    What does that leave the Twins with?

    Closer: Glen Perkins

    RH RP: Kevin Jepsen, Trevor May,

    LH RP: Free Agent LHP

    Two Of: Casey Fien (non-guaranteed contract), Michael Tonkin (out of options), Ryan Pressly, Alex Meyer, Ryan O’Rourke, or a second quality free agent.

    Long Relief: Logan Darnell

    And Taylor Rogers should be up soon, if not on the Opening Day roster. By May, we could see Alex Meyer, Nick Burdi and JT Chargois. That’s why I wouldn’t go out and acquire more than one reliever on a multi-year deal.

    From Nick’s article today, there are three relievers worth focusing on, in my opinion, Antonio Bastardo, Tony Sipp and Shawn Kelley. Don’t waste time on the others. Trust guys like Taylor Rogers, let them take off in their own careers and hopefully help the Twins move up to the next level.

    How do you think this all unfolds?

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    Specifically, why you believe it is more important to have multiple LH starting pitchers rather than multiple LH relief pitchers?  

    Never said that. How about ONE LH starting pitcher?. Milone has been removed from the rotation on this blog repeatedly.

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    "Overall, Twins bullpens over the past 4-5 years have turned in entirely predictable performances, so there's that. :)  I'd love to add an "unpredictable" reliever like Tony Sipp, Darren O'Day, etc. for a change"

     

    I agree. If I were to argue against that, I would have to slap myself.

    But I'd like to keep Rogers as a SP and pick up two FA LH relievers.

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    Never said that. How about ONE LH starting pitcher?. Milone has been removed from the rotation on this blog repeatedly.

    Sorry, your post specifically said "Milone in MLB" so I didn't realize this was predicated on removing him from the rotation.

     

    Although I probably would have used Rogers for MLB relief help down the stretch in 2015, I don't mind keeping him starting now if it means we get a real quality FA reliever like Sipp.  If we aim no higher than Cotts, though?  Then Rogers should get a look in relief from day 1.

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    I think comparing May's relief numbers against numbers as a starter is a little misleading.    His first six starts he had 1 quality start and an ERA of 5.4.  Over his next 9 starts he got his ERA down to 4.37 (despite a one out 5 earned runs disaster against the Brewers) and 6 of those starts were QS which is very good.    Throw away that clunker and his ERA in his last 8 starts was 2.88.     We know his nerves got the better of him in the majors in 2014 so it is not unreasonable he was still getting his feet wet to start 2015.     He has the tools and the pitches to be a very good if not great starter and I for one thought he should have been the LAST guy to go to the pen when Santana came back.  So what if he was also the guy best suited for relief.   I want this guy throwing 200 innings at 3.2 ERA rather than 60 innings of 2.8 ERA.    I think 2015 gave him the comfort and confidence to be the Twins top starter in 2016.   I've been wrong before but the biggest slam on him was his command and that has become his greatest strength to go along with some pretty good strengths in quality of several different pitches.

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    I think comparing May's relief numbers against numbers as a starter is a little misleading.    His first six starts he had 1 quality start and an ERA of 5.4.  Over his next 9 starts he got his ERA down to 4.37 (despite a one out 5 earned runs disaster against the Brewers) and 6 of those starts were QS which is very good.    Throw away that clunker and his ERA in his last 8 starts was 2.88.     We know his nerves got the better of him in the majors in 2014 so it is not unreasonable he was still getting his feet wet to start 2015.     He has the tools and the pitches to be a very good if not great starter and I for one thought he should have been the LAST guy to go to the pen when Santana came back.  So what if he was also the guy best suited for relief.   I want this guy throwing 200 innings at 3.2 ERA rather than 60 innings of 2.8 ERA.    I think 2015 gave him the comfort and confidence to be the Twins top starter in 2016.   I've been wrong before but the biggest slam on him was his command and that has become his greatest strength to go along with some pretty good strengths in quality of several different pitches.

     

    Preach it.

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    I think comparing May's relief numbers against numbers as a starter is a little misleading.    His first six starts he had 1 quality start and an ERA of 5.4.  Over his next 9 starts he got his ERA down to 4.37 (despite a one out 5 earned runs disaster against the Brewers) and 6 of those starts were QS which is very good.    Throw away that clunker and his ERA in his last 8 starts was 2.88.     We know his nerves got the better of him in the majors in 2014 so it is not unreasonable he was still getting his feet wet to start 2015.     He has the tools and the pitches to be a very good if not great starter and I for one thought he should have been the LAST guy to go to the pen when Santana came back.  So what if he was also the guy best suited for relief.   I want this guy throwing 200 innings at 3.2 ERA rather than 60 innings of 2.8 ERA.    I think 2015 gave him the comfort and confidence to be the Twins top starter in 2016.   I've been wrong before but the biggest slam on him was his command and that has become his greatest strength to go along with some pretty good strengths in quality of several different pitches.

    If we get to throw away the clunkers, take away his relief appearance July 19 at Oakland, when he was still "getting his feet wet" as a reliever, and the 3ER he gave up in 1 IP.

     

    Lets also toss out the 0IP, 3ER outing at Houston Sep 6.

     

    Now compare numbers. How's he look, starter vs reliever?

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    the point isn't "is he a better RP or SP".....the point is a number 2 or 3 starter is MUCH MORE valuable than a RP. Some of us think he's a legit MLB starting pitcher, and would rather have 200 innings of that, than 60 innings of RP from him.

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    the point isn't "is he a better RP or SP".....the point is a number 2 or 3 starter is MUCH MORE valuable than a RP. Some of us think he's a legit MLB starting pitcher, and would rather have 200 innings of that, than 60 innings of RP from him.

    I disagree. 200 innings of meh isn't more valuable than 60 strategically placed innings of dominance.

     

    I also believe if you're making a point, if you toss out the bad points for one side of the argument, you come to a more accurate conclusion if you also toss out the bad points of the other side as well.

     

    Or don't toss out the bad at all. It's not like May's bad starts didnt happen, just because someone thinks they shouldn't have.

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    I didn't toss out any stats, and I don't think he'd be "meh" as a starter. That should be obvious since I said a 2/3.

     

    I do agree, tossing out stats from bad performances, is usually a bad idea. Tossing out outliers is not. Showing progress over time is not.

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    I disagree. 200 innings of meh isn't more valuable than 60 strategically placed innings of dominance.

     

     

    I think you can make the argument that while you have a cheap internal guy who could throw 200 innings, you might be better off using him for that and sign a free agent to throw the 60 innings of dominance. You could be O'Day and Madson for the price of Ervin Santana, for example.

     

    Although we do have a lot of starters right now, and our bullpen could probably use May AND free agent reinforcements, so I don't mind it.

     

    I do worry that May had back issues and limited availability after his move to the pen, though, which makes it harder to strategically place those innings.

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    My problem with May in the pen is that there's potential dominance as a starting pitcher that's being ignored. I agree that 60 innings of dominance is better than 200 innings of meh.  I don't think May's ceiling is anywhere close to 200 IP of Meh.  He was pitching well abover average as a starter prior to his demotion (including leading the rotation in WAR).  I don't think his ceiling should be so quickly discounted based on 25 major league starts.

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    If we get to throw away the clunkers, take away his relief appearance July 19 at Oakland, when he was still "getting his feet wet" as a reliever, and the 3ER he gave up in 1 IP.

    Lets also toss out the 0IP, 3ER outing at Houston Sep 6.

    Now compare numbers. How's he look, starter vs reliever?

    Yeah, I knew I wouldn't get away with throwing out his clunker though I think it reasonable in this instance to remark on his last 9 starts vs his first 6.     If he was in his third or 4th season I wouldn't think it reasonable either.     I just don't think the 4.37 ERA reflected who he was as a starter.    I felt very good about our chances when he started.   At the time I thought he was one of the best and I just didn't want to see him yanked out of the rotation.      

    I think I have made it clear that I am with spycake in that I don't think he is a meh starter so its more the premise that we disagree on than the conclusion.    

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    I disagree. 200 innings of meh isn't more valuable than 60 strategically placed innings of dominance.

    I disagree with your disagreement.

    200 innings from a SP is 200 innings of rest for a bullpen which has been coughing up blood after the ALL-Star-Game each season. If your starters all go seven innings per start (approx. 200 innings per season), your entire bullpen has a much better chance to each produce "60 strategically placed innings of dominance".

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    IMHO we need two things to add to our bullpen in order to move May to the starting rotation and call it a net gain. If you move him to the rotation and replace him with one pen arm, we are right where we started overall as a staff. Leave him in the pen and we have the same krappy pen as last year. Replace him in the pen and add one reliever free agent and we have the same krappy pen as last year. Leave him in the pen and add a free agent pen arm and we are slightly better than last year.

     

    Basically, regardless of where you put May, in order to have a significantly improved pen, we don't just need 1 arm, we need 2 or 3 for me to have a thread of optimism.  

     

    Based on what we have as options for starters, I say leave him in the pen and sign 2 more guys. My bold suggestion.........we need a "flamethrower" and a "fireballer." They both need to be able to bring the heat, throw darts and drive tacks.

     

    I'm sick of the circus music playing in my head every time the damn bullpen door opens!!! Five years of garbage and I've had my friggin fill! Get with the program Twins!

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