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  • Projects Vs. Prospects


    Cody Pirkl

    The Twins have brought in a few project pitchers despite having several younger arms who appear ready for extended looks. The front office appears to be growing confident in its ability to identify undervalued skills and turn them into value. Is this really the way the Twins should be filling out their roster?

    Image courtesy of © Bob DeChiara-USA TODAY Sports

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    Only one rotation spot is up for grabs as we roll into spring, and it likely won’t be a long term gig, as Pineda returns 39 games into the season. The fifth spot has several competitors.

    Jhoulys Chacín - 103.1 IP, 6.01 ERA, 5.88 FIP, .280/.356/.521 against

    Chacin is believed by some to be the favorite for the fifth rotation spot despite everything bottoming out in 2019. If you’re looking at his numbers wondering why the Twins even gave him a call, it’s because prior to 2019 he sported a 3.86 ERA in over 1,200 innings in his career. He was starting playoff games for Milwaukee just two years ago and still managed a 25.7% whiff rate on the slider that’s carried him to this point in his career. If the Twins can adjust anything with Chacín to bring him near the No. 2 or 3 pitcher he was in Milwaukee, he slots in well for the fifth spot and gives you more than you can realistically ask from any of the rookies.

    Randy Dobnak - 28.1 IP, 1.59 ERA, 2.90 FIP, .245/.297/.300 against

    Lewis Thorpe - 27.2 IP, 6.18 ERA, 3.47 FIP, .336/.387/.531 against

    Devin Smeltzer - 49 IP, 3.86 ERA, 4.58 FIP, .265/.312/.466 against

    Here we have three young pitchers who you could easily argue, based on their 2019 performances, are more deserving of a rotation spot than Chacín . Even Thorpe’s ugly looking numbers are balanced by his 3.47 FIP, likely due to his .438 BABIP allowed. So why would Chacín be in consideration for it? The first thought is that he can have explosive value for a non-roster invite if he returns to form. His history says he’s at least capable, while the other three have had success in relatively small sample sizes to start their careers. Also consider Pineda’s return. Do the Twins want a young guy to settle in for six weeks and then have his role in flux?

    The bullpen had a spot open up just recently as the front office used their bullpen depth to add to their rotation depth by trading Brusdar Graterol for Kenta Maeda. Let’s call this 1.5 spots up for grabs.

    Matt Wisler: 51.1 IP, 5.61 ERA, 4.23 FIP, .272/.323/.490 against

    A former top 100 prospect, Wisler was brought in on a guaranteed contract this winter to take a spot in a bullpen with a surprising amount of depth. His FIP being a run and a half lower suggests he may have gotten unlucky. Look no further than his home run to fly ball rate at 18.2%, almost double what the league average normally is. He also has an absurd slider to work with, which earned a 40.8 whiff%. While everything but the slider got crushed in 2019 for Wisler, finding just one more effective pitch could make him a valuable reliever. While it’s not certain, I’d expect Wisler, being out of options, to hold his role with that guaranteed contract when the team heads north, leaving only one bullpen spot remaining.

    Cody Stashak: 25 IP, 3.24 ERA, 3.01 FIP, .287/.298/.475 against

    Fernando Romero: 14 IP, 7.07 ERA, 5.07 FIP, .317/.431/.483 against

    Stashak was money in his debut season, so it’s easy to want him to nab the final spot given his performance compared to Romero’s. You may even be asking what the question is here. Nick Nelson had a nice write up on why you shouldn’t just rule the hard-throwing righty out. He’s got the raw skills you dream of in a reliever, and 2020 is his last option year. It would be nice to give him another chance in the majors in low leverage to live up to his pedigree. If you disagree, also consider that one of the young guys who lost out on a rotation spot could transition to long relief to begin the year. You could solidly argue that the Twins might make better use of two bullpen spots rather than counting on improvement from Wisler.

    What the final decision may come down to is the confidence the Twins have in betting on themselves. They’d be betting on their ability to identify hidden talent and value, as well as their coaching staff’s ability to bring it to the forefront. It’s easy to say “stash the young arms in the minors in case we need them”, but they’re looking ready for a major league role after most performed better last season than the projects the front office brought in this winter. A lot of them possess a fair amount of upside themselves.

    Consider the depth that this team has in all facets, as well as the fact that they’re coming off of 101 wins with a wide open window. Do you feel comfortable with the Twins’ ability to make something of these pitchers coming off rough seasons? Or would you prefer they run with the younger, mostly unproven arms of which little is known at this point? Let us know below.

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    What about Thielbar?

    I love Thielbar, he went to my high school of a few hundred people. I think he could pitch himself into a spot, but he'll have to beat out someone like Cody Stashak who's coming off a nice year. Thielbar has the upper hand because he's a lefty, but it's unknown how much that will even play into the Twins decision with the 3 batter minimum. 

     

    All that being said, Thielbar is my sleeper to make the squad this spring. He had a hell of a year at AAA last season.

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    Could you refresh my memory? I don't recall a single instance of this.

    Maybe they're thinking of Perez last year? Didn't get released but for sure got scouted out and exposed after his first 11 starts or so. I think both of these guys are different though. Wisler and Chacin have measurable skills that they still do well. Perez just showed up with a new pitch that had 0 scouting reports on it and wasn't good enough to adjust in response. 

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    I am going to be pulling for any pitcher currently on the mound in a Twins' uniform, young  or old, rookie or veteran, minor league contract or 4 year deal, lefty or righty......And Jake Reed.

    Very much agree. I just want to see whoever ends up in that spot earn it. I'm hoping it isn't awarded because of the past or what they think of the future. We have enough options that whoever gets it should be judged on how they look in the present. Also love the Jake Reed reference. That's my guy.

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    Can we get a list of players with waaaaaaaaay too much talent who have gone away quickly?

    Every team has that list unfortunately. The nice thing about the way things fall this spring for the Twins is that the only guys who can "get away" if they don't earn a spot are guys like Chacin and Wisler. All of the young guys can be stashed at AAA.

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    I'm a prospect guy, and most of this decade, I would have just said that I support giving the prospects the innings (unless they're overwhelmed).  I'm always for minor league signings... but getting a guy with Chacin's track record on a minor league deal is fantastic.

     

    The team is in Win-Now... Chacin has been there, done that, he's pitched in the playoffs. He had one rough year... but love taking a shot on a guy like that. now that said, if Thorpe or Dobnak are better, give them the job. 

     

    I assume Chacin has an opt-out at some point early in the year... they can take advantage of that too.

    Love that thought process. The Twins are in an enviable spot where if they choose Chacin, these prospects that are in competition with him just go to AAA until they're needed later. There's risk Chacin doesn't work out, but there's no risk of watching younger talent leave the organization.

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    I think Thorpe needs major league inning to take the next step. The Twins need to develop starting pitching. I would start him in the rotation and keep Chacin in AAA until they need to make an opt out date decision.

     

    Give Thorpe those 7-8 starts before Pineda returns and give him a chance win the spot and move Bailey to the bullpen. Even if he struggles he will know what he needs to work on in AAA if he heads there when Pineda returns.

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    I think Thorpe needs major league inning to take the next step. The Twins need to develop starting pitching. I would start him in the rotation and keep Chacin in AAA until they need to make an opt out date decision.

    Give Thorpe those 7-8 starts before Pineda returns and give him a chance win the spot and move Bailey to the bullpen. Even if he struggles he will know what he needs to work on in AAA if he heads there when Pineda returns.

    Chacin is gone if he doesn't come out of the spring with a major league spot I believe. That's the catch 22. I don't think the Twins want to see another Anibal Sanchez situation where a guy could rebound in a big way but they cut him without giving him the chance. Thorpe is definitely ready for a longer look, but the front office will weigh his ability to start at AAA for sure.

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    Chacin is gone if he doesn't come out of the spring with a major league spot I believe. That's the catch 22. I don't think the Twins want to see another Anibal Sanchez situation where a guy could rebound in a big way but they cut him without giving him the chance. Thorpe is definitely ready for a longer look, but the front office will weigh his ability to start at AAA for sure.

    I wasn’t aware that he had an opt out date at the end of spring training. I wrote at the signing that this is a good deal with an opt out date of mid May but a bad deal if the opt out date is end of spring training. The Twins don’t need to give Chacin valuable spring innings to show case himself taking an opportunity from Dobnak, Thorpe or Smeltzer.

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