Painted Into A Corner (Infield Crunch)

  On 8/9/2016 at 6:06 PM, nicksaviking said:

I'm hopeful on Gordon, but there's no way I'm presuming he's going to be good enough to make Escobar a non-factor.

Pretty sure Jimmer was saying Escobar on his own is a non-factor when considering who is the future starting SS, and separately that Gordon is too far away to be counted on as well. He wasn't suggesting that Gordon is going to displace Escobar or anybody.

  On 8/9/2016 at 6:06 PM, nicksaviking said:

I'm hopeful on Gordon, but there's no way I'm presuming he's going to be good enough to make Escobar a non-factor.

If you read my post in regards to the post I was responding to, I wasn't pinpointing Gordon as the one who makes Escobar a non-factor.  We were talking about Polanco and whether or not he should be traded.  I think Escobar in no way should be a player who blocks Polanco at shortstop and Gordon is too far down the road to even consider at this point.

Escobar should be a utility IF.  That's it.  Still a useful piece, but not someone I, personally, think should be a regular starter.

So, basically, I'm saying when it comes to starting jobs, Escobar is a non-factor

  On 8/9/2016 at 6:15 PM, Taildragger8791 said:

Pretty sure Jimmer was saying Escobar on his own is a non-factor when considering who is the future starting SS, and separately that Gordon is too far away to be counted on as well. He wasn't suggesting that Gordon is going to displace Escobar or anybody.

yup.

  On 8/9/2016 at 8:47 AM, The Wise One said:

Denial is a strange thing. No matter how many times it is pointed out that there was not a market for 3B last winter there are people who insist on Plouffe  should have been traded over the winter.  It is sort of like thinking Duensing was a valuable commodity to be added into any trade to get a player or multiple prospects back.    Gluts of  1b/3b/dh types.  No one person's play has been anywhere close to making the team look foolish for having the other players.

 

Sano in right as a mistake.  Schwaber is built along the same lines as Sano. Shorter, but about the same BMI.  Can't find where people thought Epstien and Maddon were idiots. The all Star Bryant does not always play 3b, he gets to play OF     Jeezo, those Cubs must sure be idiots.

Well now, we're getting nothing for Plouffe. Happy? At least a bag of balls and warm can of Coors Light would have been something. 

'Sano in right as a mistake.Schwaber is built along the same lines as Sano. Shorter, but about the same BMI.Can't find where people thought Epstien and Maddon were idiots. The all Star Bryant does not always play 3b, he gets to play OF   Jeezo, those Cubs must sure be idiots.'

Sano is only 35, 40 pounds heavier than Schwarber (BMI doesn't matter, that's 35-40 more pounds to get moving out there.  Has there been a heavier OF given a starting OF job.  Pretty sure there hasn't) and Sano, unlike Schwarber, had no time in the minors as an OF.

With the exception of those things, their situations are exactly alike....

Tons of fans said the idea of putting Sano out in the OF was ridiculous right from the start, and he ended up being horrible out there.  For those people who want to continue to think it was a well conceived idea from the Twins braintrust, that's on them. It's kind of like faith.

Regardless of some of Sano's adventures, especially those simple pop ups, I have seen him make too many super athletic plays to prove that a fine third baseman is there that just needs reps and maturity. I hope the next GM is smart enough to see that.

Some of you nailed it.  This problem wasn't caused by not moving Plouffe.  The problem was caused by signing Park.  

It's hard to see it now but Sano's 3B defense has an incredibly small chance of panning out.  Moving him to the OF was the choice to make if the Twins did not want him to DH.  Those moves are fine if in a bubble ... but then they signed Park and blocked Sano from moving back to DH if he could not play in the outfield.  Now the Twins are truly stuck.

Now the Twins will probably need to make multiple moves to accommodate Sano.  

I'm still a little surprised that some people don't see a superstar when they look at Polanco.  I think that, sometimes, fans buy into it when a front office bounces a player around.  But I'm not sure about putting him at 3rd as has been suggested.  Good middle infielders don't grow on trees.  Polanco will be an upgrade over Dozier and Dozier will probably make a nice return on the trade market.  

I think that Park is that player in the minors who is insurance.  Since TR is gone no one has to explain or apologize so good decisions can be made instead.  Sano/Vargas/Mauer at first, Polanco or Plouffe at third, Polanco and Escobar at SS,  Santana/Dozier at second.  Looks good to me.  Outfield of Rosario/Buxton/Kepler - I refuse to give up on 22 year old Buxton - with one of Grossman or Palka in reserve and Santana back up in CF.  Walker is interesting, but we cannot have two strikeout machines (unless they are pitching) and he and Sano would combine for ridiculous number of whiffs.  

I think Suzuki might stick for another year and I am fine with him and Centeno or if needed Stuart - there was some guy that used to be with the Yankees that was up for a while, but I think his bubble has burst and he will need another minor league year to show he belongs in the majors. 

But no matter who among these players you choose, they are far better than anything that we have had in years and it is very exciting.   Now for the pitchers...

  On 8/9/2016 at 9:14 PM, alarp33 said:

So 12 infielders/ outfielders, and 2 catchers? 11 man pitching staff?

Not if it's this staff, that's for sure.

  On 8/9/2016 at 8:28 PM, h2oface said:

Regardless of some of Sano's adventures, especially those simple pop ups, I have seen him make too many super athletic plays to prove that a fine third baseman is there that just needs reps and maturity. I hope the next GM is smart enough to see that.

that or it shows that all major leaguers make great plays here and there.

He IS great on coming in on soft hit, slow grounders and throwing.  There are other times when people have raved about a play that is routine for most 3B  Our announcers are good at that.

Big Mig is clearly a DH. And there isn't anything wrong with that.

  On 8/9/2016 at 2:21 PM, alarp33 said:

I don't understand. Are you suggesting they should've traded Sano or Kepler, since they were the 2 most effected by keeping Plouffe? Why would they have done that? Plouffe isn't good. 

Sano or Kepler for the right ace might make sense, but unlikely to happen.  Getting rid of Plouffe to get Sano in makes sense.  Getting rid of Plouffe just to keep say Vargas or Palka makes no sense.  I'd rather spend the little bit extra for the better player and insurance in case Sano can't field.

  On 8/9/2016 at 10:45 PM, jimmer said:

that or it shows that all major leaguers make great plays here and there.

 

He IS great on coming in on soft hit, slow grounders and throwing. There are other times when people have raved about a play that is routine for most 3B Our announcers are good at that.

Like political propaganda and spin, I make my own decisions and observations regardless of other's opinions. I have to consider that the mindtrust gave him virtually no third base work for a year and a half. Plus he is 23. Plus he is not so humble. Time will tell, but ONLY IF HE ACTUALLY PLAYS THIRD BASE! (sorry, using phone and site provides no italic option in this format.)

  On 8/9/2016 at 6:06 PM, nicksaviking said:

I'm hopeful on Gordon, but there's no way I'm presuming he's going to be good enough to make Escobar a non-factor.

I too am hopeful about Gordon, but someone in org should give him special attention, lest he be unduly influenced by his older brother. If you grew up with an older brother, you might emphasize.

I don't think it's an infield crunch at all. Plouffe isn't that good. Mauer needs more days off. Vargas hasn't shown he can sustain offensive competence (and isn't much to speak of defensively), and the same could be said for Park.

That leaves Sano.

A few warm bodies does not a crunch make.

  On 8/9/2016 at 9:14 PM, alarp33 said:

So 12 infielders/ outfielders, and 2 catchers? 11 man pitching staff?

That would be my choice - if we can move on to some quality pitchers.  If not we move another good bat or two. 

does any team employ only 11 pitchers on a regular basis?

  On 8/9/2016 at 1:27 PM, alarp33 said:

For the 100th time, it wasn't about the market or what you could bring back. It was simply about opening a roster spot. The return didn't matter, it wouldn't be great because Plouffe isn't a great player. Him not being on the team (opening the door for Kepler in RF and Sano at 3B) was all that it was about

Up the 100. When a similar player received a late offer of 2 million you are not going to trade Plouffe and not create another problem. The return is going to be another contract of a player you do not want     Microcosmic thinking goes along with denial.

  On 8/9/2016 at 7:37 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

BMI should never be used for anything ever. It's the RBI of health statistics, measuring a result but not tracking the cause.

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439

 BMI is based  on proportions of height  and weight. The number itself for an athlete is useless in terms of body fat.  On the other hand  two people of different heights and weights with the same number as bmi are going to be built proportionately close to  the same . Despite the flaws of the usage of bmi, the number can be used as a comparison tool .  Any argument  one uses to say Sano shouldn't be in the outfield on size thus should have been used on Bryant. They were not. Sorry the word BMI is like a red flag waved in front of a bull