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  • Official Winter Meetings Monday Thread


    Seth Stohs

    Today, the Winter Meetings officially begin. There was an awards banquet on Sunday night, but the full slate of meetings begin today.

    Use this thread as the official Twins Daily rumor mill. If you read or hear some Twins-related rumors, post them in the comments. If you are hearing big player movement, post them here. Obviously if the Twins make any major league moves, we'll post that in its own article, but let's let the discussions begain.

    Image courtesy of David Banks, USA Today

    Twins Video

    The best thing about the Winter Meetings is all the rumors.

    The worst thing about the Winter Meetings is all the rumors.

    We're going to hear a lot of conversation, a lot of rumors. Again, GMs will be talking to GMs. GMs will be talking to Agents. GMs and other baseball executives will have media sessions, and fans everywhere will cling onto every single word.

    It's fun to read all the rumors. First, it's fun to contemplate what it would take for the Twins to get Player X. Second, it is then fun to think about how that player will look in the lineup. Third, the reality is that the teams each will likely make just a few transactions, so there will be many more rumors than there are actual transactions.

    Here is a tremendous interaction/discussion from MLB Network between Greg Amsinger, Dan O'Dowd, Ken Rosenthal, and Peter Gammons, discussing how teams try to use the media and how media tries to decipher all the information they're being given.

    That said, there are a lot of free agents on the market looking to sign somewhere. The key free agents will set the market for the others.

    Teams like to be aggressive early, as the Twins were with the signing of Jason Castro, but agents who have their clients wait will either find more dollars as they wait, or if they wait too long, they may run out of suitors.

    And then there will be a bunch of minor league signings. Teams need to fill out their AA and AAA rosters and they'll want to do so with guys that can do something at the big leagues if they were needed.

    On that front, Darren Wolfson of KSTP-TV and 1500 ESPN radio, tweeted the following:

    https://twitter.com/DWolfsonKSTP/status/805588149720256512

    Paulsen has spent parts of the last three seasons with the Colorado Rockies. He was removed from the 40-man roster and became a free agent. He has played the corner outfield positions and some first base.

    My initial thought was Meh. And my second thought and any subsequent thoughts were Meh. I mean, no minor league signing is going to create a lot of excitement. But it certainly can get some thoughts going. I mean, The Twins have corner outfielders in Eddie Rosario and Max Kepler and Robbie Grossman in the big leagues. Eddie Rosario and Robbie Grossman could be a pretty solid platoon. At 1B/DH, the Twins have Joe Mauer, Kennys Vargas, Byungho Park all in contention for a couple of big league spot.

    But maybe the Falvey/Levine combo might be willing to trade Eddie Rosario or Kennys Vargas or Byungho Park. Kennys Vargas gets the extra option season, which is valuable to the Twins, but it's valuable to other teams as well.

    Then consider the AAA roster. Adam Brett Walker was lost. Daniel Palka will be in Rochester. Zack Granite will be in Rochester. Will Travis Harrison and/or Dalton Hicks make the jump to AAA? There is no harm in signing a guy like Paulsen who will likely spend most of the season in Rochester, but has had success in the big leagues.

    Enough about Ben Paulsen. Let's talk Brian Dozier.

    Yesterday's thread was led by the Bob Nightengale tweet yesterday morning about the Dodgers being the leader in the Dozier sweepstakes, and that they have now piqued the Twins interest.

    Later in the day, Jon Heyman tweeted the following:

    https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/805602919403884544

    Again, the Dodgers remain the leaders, but wouldn't it be fun to have an idea of who those other four or five teams might be?

    Adding some fun to the discussion, Brian Dozier is scheduled to be at the Winter Meetings on Monday. He is there for a marketing commitment for Under Armour, but the timing is still interesting, of course. Maybe he can finally get some time and meet Derek Falvey and Thad Levine. We'll see what comes of it, if anything.

    It will also be fun to see what happens around the AL Central. Cleveland is obviously going to be good for awhile. Will they do much?

    The Royals were up to $135 million last year, and they're projected to be at $148 million. Sources told Ken Rosenthal that their break-even point is between $115-120 million, so they will likely be looking to deal some of their key players. They've got a lot of players in that group that are just starting to make some really good money. So, which will they keep and which will they trade?

    The Tigers are rumored to be shopping JD Martinez and Ian Kinsler. Miguel Cabrera said he's willing to be traded, but that is unlikely.

    The White Sox are clearly shopping Chris Sale. Atlanta and Washington are the two teams most mentioned. Dealing Sale would certainly hurt the White Sox short-term, but they could get a huge return for him as he is easily one of the top 10 starting pitchers in baseball. The White Sox have one of the worst farm systems in baseball, so they would add some talent.

    A few more notes:

    • Yesterday we wondered about Andrew McCutchen going to the Nationals. We just mentioned that Chris Sale has been mentioned with the Nationals. For what it's worth, the Nationals said on Sunday that they feel they have the players to get both.
    • Matt Holliday, who missed most of the 2016 season with injury, signed a one year, $13 million deal with the New York Yankees. Obviously he can hit when healthy. More important, the one year deal isn't prohibitive to the Yankees, who don't want to be paying into the luxury tax.
    • Joe Nathan, who is 42, says that he wants to pitch again in 2017. He pitched just one game in April of 2015 (against the Twins) and needed Tommy John surgery. He signed with the Cubs and pitched in three games for them before they let him go. He signed with the Giants and pitched in seven games for them.
    • Where will Edwin Encarnacion and his stupid imaginary parrot wind up?
    • Which of the Big Three closers will sign first? Mark Melancon, Aroldis Chapman or Kenley Jansen?

    So there is some stuff to discuss to get things started this morning. Discuss any of these topics and keep checking back as more rumors come and go throughout the day.

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    Sure would be nice if the Twins were in on the Chris Sale talks. He would be hard to get with the asking price but I think the Twins have the players and prospects to pull it off.
    I would do Eddie Rosario, Brian Dozier, Santiago and Jose Berrios for Chris Sale, and a shortstop prospect. Yes I would do it for only the two years of team control. This team desperately need's an Ace that will set everyone else up.
    To me Chris Sale is like Johan Santana was a dominant front line starter. He would set up Phil Hughes and our current Ervin Santana to be a top notch three starters deep rotation.
    You need three starters deep with a true Ace to win in this league.

    I think the Twins should be focused on trying to cultivate and develop the next Chris Sale over the next 3 to 5 years, not mortgage the future on a Team that has no chance to win in all in 2017. Plus if I'm the white sox I laugh at that package and counter with something involving probably both Sano and Buxton

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    You start low, but I think the Sox would ask for Buxton or Sano in any package for Sale. I agree on that they would insist on one of the two. I thought maybe with Sale on board the Twins would be a lot more competitive in 2017. Guess I'm way off base in my assesment.
    Agree the Twins probably don't have what it takes to get Sale, would hope the front office would at least have a conversation with the White Sox.

    Lights out Chris Sale has a WAR of around 7, a more reasonable expectation is 4 to 6. A historically lights out season for a pitcher delivers a WAR of 10. Say you believe the Twins are a 70 win team next season without Sale, maybe he gets them to 75-77 wins. That doesn't even count taking out at minimum a Sano or Buxton. Not worth it. Where it becomes worth it is with a team that will likely win in the high 80's and then would have him for the playoffs. The Twins aren't cashing in on that over the next two seasons. 

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    Not sure if you're watching or not.... If you are, could you give us the cliff notes from the interview?

    They did a lot of joking around, but he said that he's meeting with Levine and Falvey tonight. He's paying attention to and taking a positive approach to all of the rumors and taking it as a compliment, but said he'd like to be here for the long haul to win with the Twins. Overall, he said it's a really exciting time for him.

     

    He's such a great guy, which makes the possibility of him being traded a tough one.

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    I don't think your offer comes even close to getting Sale.  The White Sox are rebuilding.  They might want Dozier just to trade him again, but otherwise, they wouldn't want him at all.  My guess is any Twins offer would have to include Buxton and/or Sano along with Berrios.

     

    I think that Dozier, Berrios, and Gordon with be just about right

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    There's a good chance that will happen but it's promising the Dodgers are in the conversation, as they're the best fit for the trade. They need Dozier and they have what the Twins need.

     

    What is even more promising is the 4-5 teams in the mix.  That could quickly drive up the price.

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    Jaimedude2

     

    You would give up our best pitching prospect, a possible starting LF and our best position player for an Ace with only two years of team control?

     

    What do you do when Sale walks in 2 years for more money and a team that is more competitive? BTW, with that trade you just strengthened one of our chief competitors.

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    No way do I wanna see us trade for Sale. Why would we every give up our top young players/prospects for a pitcher to have for 2 years, then watch walk away. The White Sox would be asking for a huge haul in return too.

     

    Also if the Yankee report is true that is very good news. The Yankees do have a lot of young players we could be interested in. I'd assume Gary Sanchez would be untouchable but hopefully we could get a package headlined by Severino. I also like Justus Sheffield, Domingo Acevedo, Dillon Tate, Judge, Torres, Mateo, and Frazier. So the Yankees got prospects to deal. A bidding war between the Dodgers and Yankees would be a dream situation. So hopefully the Yankees do have interest in Dozier.

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    It's interesting with the "almost a hard cap" part of the new CBA, that seems like it helps the Twins in this negotiation. If before you had basically unlimited funds, but now your spending is being restricted to, say $250M, having a way above average guy at $8M, is a big deal because it might allow you to splurge somewhere else.

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    No way do I wanna see us trade for Sale. Why would we every give up our top young players/prospects for a pitcher to have for 2 years, then watch walk away. The White Sox would be asking for a huge haul in return too.

     

    Also if the Yankee report is true that is very good news. The Yankees do have a lot of young players we could be interested in. I'd assume Gary Sanchez would be untouchable but hopefully we could get a package headlined by Severino. I also like Justus Sheffield, Domingo Acevedo, Dillon Tate, Judge, Torres, Mateo, and Frazier. So the Yankees got prospects to deal. A bidding war between the Dodgers and Yankees would be a dream situation. So hopefully the Yankees do have interest in Dozier.

    I also like the Yankees news too. They have four top 25 prospects in baseball, 6 top 100, and that doesn't even count guys like Sanchez and Severino. My god what a farm they've assembled there as of late.

     

    For whatever reason, I don't see the Yankees being willing to pony up some of these guys quite yet as they just stocked up last season and they might want to go the free agent route and supplement those guys with a solid young nucleus until the deadline where they could really make a splash with a big guy if they are in contention. 

     

    But they certainly have a lot of prospects that would make sense for the Twins to target.

     

    Luis Severino, Justus Sheffield, Dillon Tate, and Domingo Acevedo are all pitchers and we obviously need that.

     

    Clint Frazier & Aaron Judge are absolute studs in the outfield and either could help form a potentially deadly outfield for the next 5 years with Kepler, Buxton, and Rosario.

     

    Torres & Mateo can both play shortstop which we will have a hole at. 

     

    I'd like to see either one of Severino, Torres, Mateo, Frazier, Judge be the headline of the deal and I don't know if the Yankees will go for that. If for some reason they offer TWO of the previous Five guys I listed, you pull that trigger right away. This would only happen if a bidding war takes place. Even in that scenario I see the Yankees pulling out as Castro was actually decent last year

     

     

    Edited by Baseball Bat
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    Tweet from MLB Trade Rumors: "I haven't had any dialogue with the Twins about Dozier. That's a false report." - Yankees GM Brian Cashman on Yanks/Dozier rumors

    Well, I was two minutes late.

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    Maybe the Yankees aren't in play but it did get me thinking a bit.  While a young potential Ace starting pitcher is everyone's dream here, there are other possibilities to improving the pitching situation.  I'll type this up about the Yankees but it could apply to other teams as well.

     

    The Twins could look to trade Dozier for a good all around SS (in this case like Torres/Mateo).  In a year or two if/when Gordon is ready you play some combination of Torres, Polanco and Gordon at 2nd/3rd/SS.  Move Sano to DH or 1B.  Combined with Buxton in CF and Kepler in one of the corners that is one hell of a defense.  There is speed and athleticism everywhere across the board.  It will also be a pretty cheap lineup freeing up money for another masher at 1B or a corner OF spot.  Or alternatively the Twins could go real big on a pitcher. 

     

    Combine all of that with a good framing catcher and I think there would be a real significant change in the stats of the pitchers.  Will that turn a Gibson into an ace? No.  Could that defense/catcher drop his ERA to consistently sub 4? Perhaps.

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