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  • Myth: Starting Pitcher Velocity


    Seth Stohs

    How many times and in how many ways have you heard the following comment? “He sits 91 to 93 with his fastball. That’s not hard enough.” “The Twins need more hard-throwing starters.” “Other teams have starters that average 95 mph or more with their fastballs.”

    So, how do you feel about that? What value does extra velocity have for a pitcher, and do pitchers need to throw 95 to be successful? Do they need to average 94 of 95 with their fastball to be an “Ace?”

    Image courtesy of Marilyn Indahl, USA Today

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    In my opinion, that is completely a myth and there are so many examples of that. Here are a few things we do know about velocity.

    1) Velocity allows a greater margin for error for any pitcher. The faster the ball comes in toward the plate, the quicker the batter’s brain needs to process whether to swing at it and then try to hit it. There’s no question about that.

    2) Control and – more important – command are much more important than velocity alone in a pitcher’s success. Alex Meyer can hit 98 with his fastball with frequency. When he is on, he can dominate. When he lacks control, gets behind and then lacks command in the strike zone, he – like every other pitcher – is going to struggle.

    3) MLB hitters can hit straight fastballs, even if they come in near triple digits. MLB hitters are good and have great hand-eye coordination. Making the fastball move – in, out or down – is very important to sustained success. Having a good four-seam fastball is great, but a two-seam fastball with movement is usually a better pitcher’s pitch, even though it comes in a couple of miles per hour slower.

    4) Having quality second and third and maybe even fourth pitches is also important for a starter. Having control of a change-up that comes in eight to twelve mph slower than the fastball with the same delivery can be the most difficult pitch to hit because it messes with your timing. It can also make the fastball look a couple of mph faster. I always thought that the change-up and the cutter were the two most difficult pitches to hit. That said, a curve ball like Tyler Duffey showed in his big league debut is also difficult because it changes the batter’s eye level.

    This is not a knock on velocity. In fact, if a pitcher has 1-4 above and throws 98, he's going to be great. Velocity is not a bad thing.

    I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know. For a starter, being able to mix and match three or four pitches with good control is immensely important, and I would argue it is far more important than velocity.

    Now, maybe the Twins Geek will want to run a Correlation Analysis to show what makes a starting pitcher successful. My hypothesis for such a study would be that velocity wouldn’t be in the Top 5 factors for pitcher success.

    But again, I thought it would be interesting to see how Twins pitchers compared in terms of fastball velocity to other starters around baseball. In 2015, 141 pitchers threw at least 100 innings. Going back to my days as a math minor, I believe that “median” is the number in the middle of a group, a number in which half of the data comes in higher and half are lower. The “Median” Average Fastball Velocity for the 141 starters is 91.8 mph.

    Two pitchers (Yankees Nathan Eovaldi, and Mets Noah Syndergaard) averaged 96.0+ on their fastballs. Just 11 of the 141 pitchers averaged 95.0 with their fastball. 25 averaged 94.0+ with the fastball. In other words, when you hear someone say that a pitcher sits between 91 and 93 mph, that isn’t a knock. It just is what it is. That’s what 60% of pitchers throw, with more big leaguers below that range rather than higher.

    TWINS VELOCITIES

    The Twins had six pitchers throw at least 100 innings, and here is how they ranked by Average Fastball Velocity.

    • Trevor May – 93.2 (was tied with Justin Verlander for 36th in MLB, though clearly that number was improved by his time in the bullpen)
    • Mike Pelfrey – 93.0 (was tied for 38th on the list – Tied with Jordan Zimmerman and Sonny Gray)
    • Ervin Santana – 92.5 (was tied for 49th on the list)
    • Kyle Gibson – 92.0 (was tied for 61st on the list. Tied with the likes of Masahiro Tanaka, Madison Bumgarner and Jon Lester.)
    • Phil Hughes – 90.7 (was tied for 98th on the list – he as at 92.1 in 2014)
    • Tommy Milone – 87.6 (was tied for 131st on the list)

    So, what does that mean? Well, four of the six Twins pitchers with 100 or more innings in 2015 pitched with above-average velocity. The Twins starting rotation was improved in 2015 (starter ERA improved by nearly a run), but they were still 10th in the American League. However, struggles of the staff should not be attributed to lack of velocity.

    THE CASE OF TOMMY MILONE

    Tommy Milone is an interesting case. Many believe he is not a guy to build around because of his lack of velocity. However, a quick look at the pitchers in MLB whose average velocity is even lower than Milone’s proves interesting.

    • Dodgers RHP Mike Bolsinger (87.2), Rockies RHP Kyle Kendrick (86.7), Nationals RHP Doug Fister (86.4), Royals RHP Chris Young (86.4), Cubs RHP Dan Haren (86.0), Diamondbacks RHP Josh Collmenter (85.9), Angels RHP Jered Weaver (84.9), Blue Jays LHP Mark Buehrle (83.9), Blue Jays RHP RA Dickey (81.4).

    There are some long-time, very successful starting pitchers in that group. They are rare, and you’ll note just how pinpoint their control has been over the years. It has to be. I’m not saying that Tommy Milone will turn into the next Mark Buehrle, but I also refuse to say that he can’t be. His fastball may be just 87.6 mph, but he has a slow curve ball and a very good change-up. That three-pitch mix can be success (with command) at any level.

    PLAYOFF ROTATIONS

    You will also often hear that the Twins need some flame-throwers in order to make a run in the playoffs. Again, that wouldn’t hurt, but velocity isn’t necessarily the key to success for starters to get a team to the playoffs. Just for fun (and because I’m curious), I looked at the 10 playoff teams and considered their playoff rotations as well as other starters who helped a team to the playoffs (for instance, the injured Carlos Martinez of the Cardinals, or CC Sabathia of the Yankees). What you will find is a mixed bag of pitchers in the rotations.

    Pittsburgh Pirates: Gerrit Cole (95.5), Francisco Liriano (92.1), Charlie Morton (92.1), Jeff Locke (91.8), AJ Burnett (91.1)

    New York Yankees: Nathan Eovaldi (96.6), Ivan Nova (93.0), Adam Warren (92.8), Michael Pineda (92.5), Masahiro Tanaka (92.0), CC Sabathia (90.3)

    Chicago Cubs: Jake Arrieta (94.4), Jason Hammel (92.2), Jon Lester (92.0), Kyle Hendricks (89.9), Dan Haren (86.0)

    St. Louis Cardinals: Carlos Martinez (95.2), Michael Wacha (93.9), Lance Lynn (91.7), John Lackey (91.6), Jaime Garcia (90.0)

    New York Mets: Noah Syndergaard (96.5), Matt Harvey (95.2), Jacob De Grom (94.9), Stephen Matz (94.3), Bartolo Colon (90.3), Jon Niese (89.2)

    Los Angeles Dodgers: Clayton Kershaw (93.6), Zach Greinke (91.8), Brett Anderson (91.0), Alex Wood (89.3).

    Houston Astros: Lance McCullers (94.2), Scott Kazmir (91.5), Collin McHugh (90.3), Scott Feldman (90.0), Dallas Kuechel (89.6), Mike Fiers (89.4)

    Kansas City Royals: Yordano Ventura (95.6), Edinson Volquez (93.8), Danny Duffy (93.6), Johnny Cueto (92.2), Jeremy Guthrie (92.0), Chris Young (86.4)

    Toronto Blue Jays: David Price (94.0), Marcus Stroman (92.9), Drew Hutchinson (92.4), Marco Estrada (89.1), Mark Buehrle (83.9), RA Dickey (81.4)

    Texas Rangers: Derek Holland (92.9), Cole Hamels (92.1), Martin Perez (91.8), Yovani Gallardo (90.5), Nick Martinez (89.7), Colby Lewis (88.2)

    The Mets clearly are all about youth and velocity and that’s a good strategy when the pitchers are as talented as that young quartet. Jake Arrieta and David Price are aces who throw hard. But look at the Astros pitching after McCullers. Dallas Kuechel, the likely AL Cy Young Award winner, doesn’t average 90 mph on his fastball.

    Great pitching comes in all shapes and sizes. Some develop by 21 or 22, and others don’t reach their potential until they’re 25 or 26. Most are somewhere in between. There have been great pitchers who are 6-0 tall and others at 6-11, and everywhere in-between. Likewise, there have been aces who throw 97, and there have been aces that top out at 89 or 90. And, everywhere in between.

    Velocity can be a good thing for a starting pitcher for several reasons. However, it is a myth if someone tells you that one must have great velocity to become an ace.

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    In one of the thru the fences posts in the minor league area, Bob quotes scouts from other teams commenting on the Twins costing their minor league pitchers velocity.

     

     

    Yeah, I thought this was really interesting. Platoon describes it in post #42. It was cryptic and vague insinuation rather than something definitive, but telling nonetheless.

     

    Just wish we had a journalist who would pursue the topic.

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    I agree they did, but I'm not holding it against them anymore as I think they changed, at least when it comes to the draft.
     
    But I am curious, Ryan has said many times that Deron Johnson and the scouts are really the ones who run the draft, and lately they have been getting harder throwing guys (the results can be a different topic of discussion) yet in free agency, the Twins still seem to favor the control guys.  It also seems that many guys who were drafted with high 90's heat or projections for high 90's heat have now fallen to low to mid-90's guys.  I don't think this is entirely unique to the Twins, and some of that could be due to age, as pitchers seem to lose velocity pretty early into their careers these days, but I wonder if there is any kind of disconnect between what the scouting department covets in a pitcher and what those that develop them ultimately want to see from them.
     This from a recent Bob Sacemento post from Florida: >>>>>>On Saturday, lefty Sam Clay started for the Twins going 4 innings, his fastball was continually 89-91 mph maxing out at 92 mph with a slider around 76-78 mph. I was sitting next to two AL East Scouts (one amateur, one pro), and they were comparing notes on Clay. Last year, Clay's fastball was continually 92-95 mph when he first joined the Twins. They jokingly said that's the Twin's for you, I asked them what they meant and they said happens alot with Twins pitchers. >>>>>>. I wish there was more background or context to that discussion. I don't think the Twins "tell" pitchers to lose velocity. But I do wonder if the overriding lesson from the pitching coaches is control, control, control, that the players drop a little velocity in an attempt to improve their control, and their standing in the eyes of their beholders? That would be a very normal response by a young athlete trying to improve his position in the pecking order.

     

     

    Yeah, the notion of a disconnect among scouts drafting fireballers, Ryan signing "control" FA's, and developers struggling to get the Burdi's of the world to the next level is interesting. One thing that seems to stick out is that guys like Burdi, Jones, and Reed struggled, but not because of reduced velocity. Their problems were more about control, right? So I'm not sure that leads us anywhere.

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    Didn't mean to annoy you Hosken. Funny, but I watched a lot of baseball this season and missed every single one of those conversations you're describing here. If I heard Perkins or Gibson say something this inane, I think I would have noticed.

    Radio.

     

    Also, internet.

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