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  • Molitor Hints At Six-Man Rotation


    Parker Hageman

    Ervin Santana’s return to the Minnesota Twins is imminent and this presents an interesting personnel decision for the team. On Twins Radio prior to Wednesday’s game against the Red, manager Paul Molitor did not offer any hints as to the direction the Twins wants to go.

    “I think everyone is excited that we are going to be adding a pitcher of Ervin’s quality to our staff,” Molitor told Cory Provus on the pregame show. “I haven’t talked to the AAA staff, I just saw the numbers and like everyone else, we’re really happy to see his last start there was good in terms of command and efficiency and results. So we’re gonna get through today and probably the next 24 or 48 hours make an announcement when he’s gonna pitch for us.”

    As it lays out, the open date in the rotation is Sunday against the Royals in Kansas City but Molitor was mum regarding whether or not that would be Santana’s start.

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    Santana’s post-suspension tune-up with Rochester was impressive. Over the course of three starts, he worked 20.2 innings while allowing 17 hits (.227 batting average) and just four runs resulting in a 1.74 ERA. In his final two outings, both against the Red Sox’s Pawtucket affiliate, Santana faced several Major League caliber bats including Rusney Castillo and Allen Craig. The velocity was reportedly down to the late-80s/low-90s but he mixed in a slider and change to keep hitters off-balanced.

    With the excitement building within the team about Santana’s impending arrival, Provus asked the question of how the rotation will shape up once Santana returns and if the six-man rotation is on the table.

    “It’s one of the options we are looking at,” Molitor said regarding the shift to six in the rotation, “We have options but one of them would be to go ahead and insert Ervin there and give everybody an extra day and use all the starters we have until we get to that last game. Obviously the other route would be to take someone out and try to piece it together from there because of the rest that we will be able to have. Once we decide when where we are going to slot those guys in, we will trust it and go with it.”

    While Molitor seems open to the six-man idea, general manager Terry Ryan seems less receptive and is leaning towards replacing a current member of the rotation.

    “Things happen, we all know that,” Ryan told the Star Tribune. “Paul is very adept with connecting with players, I can tell you that. Most players will be very receptive. If I went to them, it might be a different story. It will be a tough decision for whoever winds up getting squeezed.”

    The New York Mets recently switched to the six-man rotation and the St. Louis Cardinals toyed with the idea this spring. Both team’s motivation was predicated on limiting innings to young arms as well as reducing the workload on rebuild arms like Matt Harvey. The Twins do not have the same scenario when it comes to rationing innings like the two NL teams did. Minnesota’s motivation would be to not remove any of the current starters who are performing serviceably across the board. The obvious reasoning is that it allows the Twins to showcase a pitcher as a trade candidate between now and the July 31 deadline but the other factors could be keeping their pitchers healthy and improving their performance.

    In 2014, Enos Sarris pointed out that the Japanese trend of using six-man rotations might be responsible for why Japan’s pitchers tend to have fewer instances with Tommy John surgery compared to their Major League counterparts. The data blog FiveThirtyEight.com’s Rob Arthur dug further into the hypothesis and found that pitchers who have four days of rest – like the standard five-man rotation have – will have a reported injury risk of one percent over the next two weeks after pitching. However, a shift to a full five days of rest – enjoyed by those in a six-man rotation – have a 0.8 percent chance of injury, a 20 percent decrease in comparison to the four-days of rest. The caveat, Arthur found, was that while the six-man prevented injuries to some degree, the nature of the injuries were comparable to those of the five-man. In short, while longer rest showed the ability to reduce the frequency of injuries, it did not reduce the risk for suffering major injuries such as UCL tears.

    Still, for a team over a 162-game schedule, keeping their core starting pitching healthy means fewer dead-arm spells that pitchers try to work through far too often before admitting something is wrong.

    But not everyone in the game is convinced the extra day between starts is better for the arm. Former MLB pitcher and current FOX Sports analyst CJ Nikowski spent time pitching in Asia and says his personal experience tells him that the notion that the six-man rotation saved arms in Japan is hogwash.

    “The problem with the notion of “they do it Asia” is that in the four years I spent pitching in both Korea and Japan, I saw more arm injuries than I did here,” Nitkowski wrote in February of this year. “I remember one day sitting in the bullpen and looking around at my teammates, every one of them had a significant arm injury at some point in their professional career.”

    While there are no numbers in Nitkowski’s post to determine if his gut model statement is true, Nitkowski cites the increase – some say even insane, per Twins pitcher Blaine Boyer – amounts of sideline throwing between starts and in spring training negates any effects the six-man rotation rest factor would play.

    Nitkowski also argued against the six-man structure because it would reduce the number of starts giving to a team’s high-paid ace. The Twins, however, lack any real “ace” caliber pitchers in the current rotation. Distributing the starts among six and keeping arms healthy for the latter portion of the season could ensure that all pitchers are fresh but it could also mean reducing the number of starts for those starters who are clicking.

    Like the small decrease in limiting the number of injuries, moving from a four-day to a five-day rest period also has a very minor increase in production. According to Baseball-Reference.com’s splits, pitchers who work on a four-day rest cycle have posted a 4.35 ERA since 2000 while those on a five-days of rest have turned in a 4.31 ERA. Over a 30-game span, if that performance maintains, that could be the difference in at least one run.

    It may be unlikely for the Twins to embrace the idea but If Santana is added to the core of Phil Hughes, Kyle Gibson, Mike Pelfrey, Tommy Milone and Trevor May for the starting six, it might be a very insightful decision by the Twins to maximize their current production…or it could be an innovative way to market a tradable commodity.

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    I think an important note in the original article is this: "While Molitor seems open to the 6 man idea, GM Terry Ryan seems less receptive to the idea and is leaning towards replacing a current member of the rotation."

     

    I believe TR is going to win this argument, and we'll be going back to debating who's the odd man out at SP.

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    Somewhere Gardy is going 'damn, why didn't I think of that, when I was betting Mike Redmond 3rd?'

    I think we should go to a 7 man rotation. They each would have an assigned day of the week and everybody would know when they need to pitch

     

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    6 man rotations takes starts away from better pitchers and give starts to inferior pitchers. It also messes with routines many have had their whole career.  It could also mean an even larger overall pitching staff and less bench.  It's not a good idea.

     

    That sounds more like a generalization to me. Who might you be referring to when you speak of "inferior" and "superior" in regards to our current rotation? That's the entire issue, isn't it? 

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    I think an important note in the original article is this: "While Molitor seems open to the 6 man idea, GM Terry Ryan seems less receptive to the idea and is leaning towards replacing a current member of the rotation." I believe TR is going to win this argument, and we'll be going back to debating who's the odd man out at SP.

     

    The last piece of his quote as well was basically "it sucks for whoever gets yanked" as if he knows already that is what will happen. 

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    “Things happen, we all know that,” Ryan told the Star Tribune. “Paul is very adept with connecting with players, I can tell you that. Most players will be very receptive. If I went to them, it might be a different story. It will be a tough decision for whoever winds up getting squeezed.” Looks like TR is going to tell Molitor who goes. Molitor will then pass on the good news, while connecting with the receptive recipient, while TR is on the first plane to Chattanooga! :)

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    Gibson can start two more times. Tuesday and Sunday. A 6 man rotation would eliminate that possibility.

     

    Which of these gives the Twins the least chance to win next week?

     

    Gibson v Tigers

    Milone v Tigers

    May v Orioles (skipping May and means Milone starts against the Orioles instead of the Tigers)

    Pelfrey v Tigers

     

    Isn't that how the Twins should make up their rotation? Debating the merits of the 6 man rotation is a nice exercise but the Twins are playing real games and need to decide based on their best chances to win those games.

     

    Molitor needs to assess which of those gives him the best shot at winning games.

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    To me, whoever the 'powers that be' figure are the best five that's the five that should be in the rotation. I'm not married to my list, it's just who I would go with. I'm not claiming my list is 100% correct.  We all have different ways we evaluate pitchers. If someone else, like you, has a different best five and the 'powers that be' agree, let's go with that five.  Doesn't matter to me.

     

    The whole point was, whichever five are the best should be in the rotation instead of giving starts to the sixth best, whomever that may be.  This is, of course, if the goal is to try and wins as many games as possible this year.  I honestly don't see us making the playoffs, so maybe our course of action should be guided by different goals.

    Like I said the logic is unassailable but the execution is questionable.   it does matter who the best 5 are which is not solved by who makes out the list.    Its  why I wanted Santana to start out in the bullpen and simply wait until performance or injury sorts it out.   I think all the current starters have earned their way to keep going right now.   

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    My last point here is that the rotation has been what has kept us in it.   The offense has been spotty at best and the relief corps has been suspect also.   Putting Santana in the pen will strengthen a weakness without weakening our strength.   Depth is great as long as we have the order correct.

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    Like I said the logic is unassailable but the execution is questionable.   it does matter who the best 5 are which is not solved by who makes out the list.    Its  why I wanted Santana to start out in the bullpen and simply wait until performance or injury sorts it out.   I think all the current starters have earned their way to keep going right now.   

    Just so you know, I put Santana in there only because he's absolutely going to be put in there by the team and this is thread about whether or not we should go from a 5 man rotation to a 6 man rotation. I'm on the side of the 5 man rotation and I've given reasons why.

     

    There is another thread about who should be the odd man out to maintain a 5 man rotation (titled 'Odd SP out')where the debate on who the five should be rages on. Your thoughts about where Santana should fit on the team when he returns is ideally put there.  It'd be an interesting debate for sure.

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    The only reason to start Pelfrey is to build up his value. Yet, if he has no value beyond this year with the Twins, getting something, anything for him woiuld be better than having him prevent someone,say May, from starting. At this point, he is not a necessity in the rotation. And what happens when Nolasco needs to come abck and pitch because of his salary. The Twins need to think hard about anyone WHO WILL NOT BE WITH THE TEAM IN 2016 and what they actually contribute to the team and their chances for winning this year during the all-star break. Pelfrey isn't a necessity. If Noalsco can continue to win (if he pitches again this year) you can always send him thru waivers and if some team wants him abd enough, elt him go. Blow apart the bullpen. You can't rely on some guys in a pressure situation. Yes, they MAY perform, but we have to look beyound the maybees. We can always find a maybee and let's give some of those other guys a chance (Oliveros, Achter and even Darnel, let alone Rogers and, now that he had a taste of major leage money, meals and travel, Alex Meyer. )

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