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  • Let's Stop Discounting Tommy Milone


    Nick Nelson

    In discussions of how the 2016 Twins rotation might shape up, one thing that I've been noticing is that fans seem rather sour on Tommy Milone. I don't fully understand why.

    Image courtesy of Ken Blaze, USA Today

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    When it became clear last week that Paul Molitor is planning to put Trevor May in the bullpen, much of the frustration I saw related to the fact that the Twins would opt for a pitcher like Milone in the rotation. The rationale, then, must be that May is likely to be so much better than Milone as a starter that it cancels out the edge gained by utilizing his potent skills as a reliever.

    May certainly has more upside, I don't think anyone would deny that. He has the ability to be a No. 2 or No. 3 type in a rotation, and that's hard to envision with Milone. But there is value in a quality fourth or fifth starter, and Milone has very consistently been that.

    Here are some reasons that I think people need to appreciate Milone a little more, particularly as it pertains to this discussion:

    He has never been bad.

    He has had bad stretches. But since coming to the big leagues in 2011, Milone has never truly been bad over the course of a full year. His worst season-ending ERA was 4.19, and that came in 2014 when he finished on an uncharacteristically brutal note after being traded to Minnesota.

    He has never had an ERA+ above 105 or below 90, so you pretty much know what you're getting. He's reliably average, and there's value in that; for proof, look no further than the deal Mike Leake signed with the Cardinals this week.

    Lineups don't adjust to him.

    In contemplating May's merits as a starting pitcher, I think these splits (via Baseball Reference) are worth considering:

    maysplit.png

    That's how May has fared the first, second and third time through the lineup in his MLB career. As you can see, he gets noticeably worse each time through, and what stands out in particular is the K/BB ratios.

    (Of course, the sample size for May is quite small – he only has 25 major-league starts, less than a full season's worth.)

    Here are the same career splits for Milone:

    milonesplit.png

    It looks like opposing hitters jump on him right away occasionally, but they don't adjust to his lower velocity and start crushing him. Quite the opposite.

    He doesn't seem to offer much as a reliever.

    This is a big piece of this thing that many seem to overlook. We know that May has the ability to be a transformative asset in the bullpen. Do we think Milone can really provide much value there at all, outside of serving as a long reliever or mop-up guy?

    Milone doesn't really have the kind of splits that you'd want in a lefty specialist, and my non-scouting eye doesn't see his stuff playing up all that much in short stints. There's just not a lot of benefit to be seen there, which is probably why only nine of his 213 appearances as a pro have been in relief.

    Now to be clear, none of this is meant to downplay May, who I still want to see in the rotation long-term. But to suggest that the Twins are shooting themselves in the foot by preferring Milone over him as a starter right now ignores the qualities that the lefty brings to the table, as well as the comparative advantage of moving May to the bullpen instead.

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    Is it wrong that I was hoping that Nolascos name would show up on that Al Jazerra investigation? A well timed suspension or a "phantom injury" would be the best thing to happen to this rotatio. (As it would force the twins to give a spot to Duffey or may instead of Nolasco)

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    Is it wrong that I was hoping that Nolascos name would show up on that Al Jazerra investigation? A well timed suspension or a "phantom injury" would be the best thing to happen to this rotatio. (As it would force the twins to give a spot to Duffey or may instead of Nolasco)

     

    That is funny.  Because it is true.

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    I want to know why we are having these discussions without considering Alex Meyer for the rotation. The Twins are RUINING Meyer. His numbers were solid as a starter in the minors, and he had upside. So what do the Twins do? Move him to the bullpen, where his numbers were horrendous as a reliever. Now, he's an afterthought?

     

    "Twins are RUINING Meyer"

     

    Please provide proof of this statement.  Alex Meyer has ALWAYS been wildly inconsistent in his minor league career with the Twins and Washington.  Blanket statements like this are factually inaccurate.

     

    That said, his flameout last season shouldn't be a surprise to anyone given he was walking 4+ guys a game on a fairly consistent basis.  It does not bode well for him that he has taken a big step backwards with his control and part of the reason he's fallen so far off the radar for the Twins. 

     

    2016 is a HUGE year for Alex.  If he doesn't make a big turnaround this season he will have very little chance of ever being a starter with this franchise given he's 26 and counting.  I think that there might be promise for him as a power reliever but that would be a big disappointment given how highly he was touted in the past.  

     

    As of right now he shouldn't even be in the conversation for a major league rotation spot this year over Berrios, Duffey and May.  

     

    I don't think the Twins had anything to do with that.  Alex has to bear some responsibil

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    I do agree this is a big year for Meyer. I don't think last year was a flame out. At the time he was removed from the rotation his FIP was essentially the same as it was in 2014. It ended much better than 2014 at 3.28. The difference in the two seasons early on was an insanely high BABIP that was far out of line with his career. I don't think the Twins handled it well as they tried to have him make adjustments that may not have been necessary. I expect he will be a valuable part of the staff by midseason.

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    Exactly what were these adjustments  that you claim to have been made?  When did the Twins admit to changing Meyer's form?  I don't recall any statement to said "changing".  Where does this "somebody 'fouled-up' Meyer" excuse come from?--rather than the more likely PHL  "soured" on Meyer and sought a trade partner (sucker) to unload Meyer for someone "useful"?

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    They need to make a decision on some point on Meyer, before he's 30......will they trust him to be a wild starter, or make him a RP? Will they live with the balls, in exchange for more SOs, or not?

     

    My prediction is that someone will have success with Alex Meyer, I just don't know if it will be the Twins or not.

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    If the Twins "ruined" Meyer, they sure did a roundabout job of it.

     

    When the team acquired Meyer, he was ranked #83 by BP.

     

    Before the 2015 season, he was ranked #14 by BP. Other lists had similar jumps, though BA stayed consistent with him (#59 in 2013, #62 in 2015).

     

    So in essence, people are arguing the Twins first helped the guy before destroying him.

     

    This argument is... highly illogical.

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    They need to make a decision on some point on Meyer, before he's 30......will they trust him to be a wild starter, or make him a RP? Will they live with the balls, in exchange for more SOs, or not?

     

    My prediction is that someone will have success with Alex Meyer, I just don't know if it will be the Twins or not.

     

    I agree with you for the most part.  But last year, I don't think any team would have put him in the MLB rotation.  He had no idea where his fastball was going and his wicked slider rarely is thrown for a strike . So the game plan was let him throw two balls and either sit on the fastball down the middle or take a walk.

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    I agree with you for the most part.  But last year, I don't think any team would have put him in the MLB rotation.  He had no idea where his fastball was going and his wicked slider rarely is thrown for a strike . So the game plan was let him throw two balls and either sit on the fastball down the middle or take a walk.

    The Twins need to make a decision with Meyer but last year, they had no good options. They couldn't even keep the guy in the AAA rotation because he was a disaster. They certainly couldn't put him in the MLB rotation.

     

    At that point, the only (crappy) option remaining is to let him try to sort things out in the bullpen.

     

    We can only hope last year was an aberration for Meyer.

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