Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account
  • Is This Front Office Truly Enlightened About Pitching?


    Nick Nelson

    We're about to find out.

    When Derek Falvey was hired to run Minnesota's baseball ops, he brought with him a rep as a pitching guru, partially responsible for constructing the enviable staff in Cleveland. That group, of course, wasn't assembled through big-money free agent signings, but through savvy trades and superior development strategies.

    So it comes as no surprise that he's attempting to apply this same model with the Twins. It's why he was hired.

    Image courtesy of Kim Klement, USA Today (Jake Odorizzi)

    Twins Video

    While Ivy League educations are now becoming the norm at 1 Twins Way, it didn't take a Harvard grad to see that Minnesota needed to seriously upgrade its rotation for 2018.

    Opinions differ on the seriousness of their attempts, but the Twins did take a shot at top names like Yu Darvish and Chris Archer this offseason. When they deemed the threshold for acquiring these potential aces too high for their liking, Falvey and GM Thad Levine lowered their gaze substantially and pivoted to a pair of extremely low-risk – and seemingly low-upside – options.

    On Friday, they signed free agent Anibal Sanchez to a non-guaranteed deal that will max out at $5 million if he sticks and earns incentives. A day later, they traded shortstop prospect Jermaine Palacios to the Tampa Bay Rays for right-hander Jake Odorizzi.

    These certainly aren't the kinds of authoritative, high-impact additions fans hoped to see. In terms of money, commitment length, and player capital, the Twins gave up very little to bring the two aboard. It appears Falvey is going all-in on his revamped department's ability to maximize these assets and extract hidden value.

    Between the two cases, there is a common thread worth keeping an eye on.

    Suite of Arms

    Ever since he arrived in 2016, Falvey has been systematically and continually building out the organization's baseball operations. His inspired outside hires have included Director of Baseball Operations Daniel Adler and Director of Minor League Operations Jeremy Zoll, both renowned for their intelligence and analytical chops.

    Falvey is a strong believer in collaboration, astutely understanding that successful execs surround themselves with the right people and listen to them. To this end, he has put a clear focus on pitching specializations. Last summer, the Twins brought in former big-league hurler Jeremy Hefner as a data-driven video scout. In December, they lured Josh Kalk – considered a pitching analytics expert – away from the Rays as a senior analyst.

    That latter name is interesting with regard to Minnesota's newest player acquisition.

    Kalk is of course very familiar with Odorizzi, who threw almost 700 innings in Tampa after being picked up in the 2012 James Shields trade. The right-hander was highly effective in 2015 and 2016, posting a 3.53 ERA and 3.98 FIP. With those kinds of numbers, he'd be a slam-dunk add for Minnesota – especially at the cost of Palacios, a good-not-great prospect who was buried on the org depth chart.

    Of course, Odorizzi wasn't that same pitcher in 2017, producing career-worsts in ERA (4.14 ERA) and FIP (5.43). But it stands to reason that Kalk and others see something fixable.

    Leveraging the very same PitchF/X data that Kalk is said to have excelled with using in Tampa Bay, Travis Sawchik of FanGraphs argued over the weekend that Odorizzi may be one adjustment away from turning the corner. The piece is worth reading, as Sawchik lays out pitch usage, location, release points and more to establish a fairly convincing case for Odorizzi's issues being correctable.

    The Anibal Challenge

    Turning around a pitcher like Odorizzi – a former first-rounder and top prospect who's still only 27 and has a recent track record of MLB success – isn't a monumental undertaking. Far more ambitious was the assignment Minnesota's brain trust took on a day earlier, with the signing of Sanchez.

    When news came down on Friday afternoon that the Twins had reached agreement with the embattled right-hander, it hit like a ton of bricks, for numerous reasons. Pent-up frustration of a long and unfulfilling winter, punctuated by the recent Darvish letdown, surely factored.

    But there's also this: Sanchez has been one of the worst starting pitchers in the league over the past few years. Twins fans have watched from up-close while his $80 million contract with the Tigers deteriorated into a liability they paid $5 million to cut loose after last season.

    In 2017 Sanchez faced the Twins far more than any other team, and posted an 8.69 ERA against them. In 2016 he went 0-4 with a 10.13 ERA in four starts against Falvey's Indians.

    This front office has has seen Sanchez at his worst, extensively, and they still wanted him. In an odd way, that kind of inspires confidence.

    While it's easy to draw parallels, this isn't in the same vein as ill-fated past investments like Kevin Correia or Jason Marquis. It could easily end up the same way, but the Sanchez signing wasn't simply an attempt to procure veteran innings, regardless of their quality. It's said to be an "analytically driven" move.

    And, at a glance, there is some validity to it. Last September, Tigers reporter Evan Woodbery wrote that while Sanchez's time in Detroit was assuredly coming to a close, "There will be a team (or perhaps several) enticed by his peripherals, which remain incredibly, absurdly, inexplicably strong for a pitcher with a 7-ish ERA."

    Sure enough, it would seem the Twins weren't alone in having interest. Although Sanchez's contract is non-guaranteed, it is a major-league deal, meaning that he will occupy a 40-man roster spot in camp and is entitled to more compensation if he gets cut than your typical non-roster invite (e.g. last year's nonconventional pet project, Craig Breslow).

    The fact that an MLB contract was required to get this done suggests Minnesota was not bidding against itself. Despite the ugly numbers, Sanchez has some legitimately appealing qualities. His 3.59 K/BB ratio in 2017 would've outranked every Twins starter. He induced a spectacular 15% swinging strike rate over his final four starts and averaged a strikeout per inning in the second half.

    Just like Odorizzi, the 34-year-old hurler's biggest weakness last year was the long ball.

    Although his fastball has gradually lost its oomph, becoming entirely too hittable in the process, Sanchez's splitter-changeup remains a powerful weapon. He also has that much in common with Odorizzi, who himself leans on a vaunted split-fingered change, having learned the grip from former Rays teammate (and current free agent) Alex Cobb.

    It's worth noting that Fernando Rodney, another newly minted member of the Twins pitching staff, features a "magic changeup" of his own. The changeup was said to be a key focus that Neil Allen brought over from Tampa's system when he came on as pitching coach, and while he has moved on, that emphasis evidently has not.

    The Big Gamble

    In acquiring Odorizzi and Sanchez, the Twins are minimizing their material risk. They've only given up an expendable prospect and about $11 million, tops. They're not tied to either pitcher beyond 2018 (though Odorizzi will be arbitration-eligible again in 2019).

    But in another sense, they're taking a huge risk, by betting so strongly on their own ability to help these pitchers cut down on long balls and reach another level of production. Misguided overconfidence would be hugely detrimental, because this pitching staff needed a much bigger jolt than the 2017 versions of Odorizzi or Sanchez would provide. Much bigger.

    The Breslow experiment, while carrying far lower stakes, went down as a whiff on Falvine's first analytically driven attempt to uncover a diamond in the rough. Will these ventures, overseen by a collection of brilliant minds in the front office and guided by a new pitching coach in Garvin Alston, turn out more favorably?

    For a team that's already making a number of precarious gambles in the rotation, with players like Kyle Gibson and Adalberto Mejia figuring to land spots, rounding out the mix with Odorizzi and Sanchez is a harrowing choice, even if the mindset behind it is sound and reasonable.

    MORE FROM TWINS DAILY
    — Latest Twins coverage from our writers
    — Recent Twins discussion in our forums
    — Follow Twins Daily via Twitter, Facebook or email
    — Become a Twins Daily Caretaker

     Share


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Featured Comments

    i agree that those numbers are bad and we'd want and need better than that, but we also have to remember what those numbers would be replacing a big chunk of:

     

    https://twitter.com/danhayesmlb/status/965348219105538048

     

    Other WC teams did get better and the Twins do need a number one or two still, but replace those stats from last year with Odorizzi putting up 165 innings of your stats and you've got a big improvement or an improvement at least if the word "big" is too strong.

     

    Obviously I want more/better, I was on the sign Darvish train, but this "should" help us not have to rely on the Tepesch and Turley's of the world (I know they are no longer Twins). If the Twins could win 85 with that bad of production for 100+ innings, adding in Odo should be an easy upgrade and help a team win more than 85. That still might not be enough to beat the WC teams though and I acknowledge that. Again, I wanted Darvish.

    Well Odorizzi was worth 0.1 fWAR last year, so he's not going to give you that many wins over the -0.3 fWAR that you cited.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I think it's obvious that ownership capped payroll at around $115 million, basically making a major free agent signing impossible. There are only 2 significant questions that I think can be asked as relates to the Twins' off-season strategy:

     

    1) Should the Twins have given up a huge prospect haul for Archer?

     

    2) Should the Twins have signed Cobb or Lynn instead of acquiring Rodney, Reed, and Odorizzi?

     

    I don't think a low-payroll team like the Twins could realistically choose option (1), because they will need their prospects to have any hope of competing in the future. The more interesting question is option (2), which would have produced a more reliable mid-rotation option than Odorizzi albeit without being able to improve the bullpen.

    They also could have traded for Gerritt Cole.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I keep hoping the "Falvine" brain-trust knows what it's doing, or at least has some sort of rational plan for getting the Twins to the next stage of the playoffs. Perhaps the most puzzling move so far this off-season was choosing Tyler Kinley in the Rule 5 draft. Will be waiting to see if that pickup amounts to anything remotely impressive.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    I agree. Sign Lynn. He'll be expensive but signing him would make this team a division contender. A rotation of Santana, Lynn, Berrios, Odorizzi and Gibson / one of the many 5th rotation options is a strong starting five.

    (Go the distance)

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Falvine haven’t proven a thing in the area of pitching. Their two obvious attempts last year were Haley and Breslow. Both were flops and they compounded their error by hanging on to both far too long

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    i agree that those numbers are bad and we'd want and need better than that, but we also have to remember what those numbers would be replacing a big chunk of:

     

    https://twitter.com/danhayesmlb/status/965348219105538048

     

    Other WC teams did get better and the Twins do need a number one or two still, but replace those stats from last year with Odorizzi putting up 165 innings of your stats and you've got a big improvement or an improvement at least if the word "big" is too strong.

     

    Obviously I want more/better, I was on the sign Darvish train, but this "should" help us not have to rely on the Tepesch and Turley's of the world (I know they are no longer Twins). If the Twins could win 85 with that bad of production for 100+ innings, adding in Odo should be an easy upgrade and help a team win more than 85. That still might not be enough to beat the WC teams though and I acknowledge that. Again, I wanted Darvish.

    the obvious question: have Falvine done much of anything to improve spots 5-16?

     

    It requires a leap of faith to conclude they have.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    the obvious question: have Falvine done much of anything to improve spots 5-16?

    It requires a leap of faith to conclude they have.

    The Twins are much deeper in starting pitching than in any of the last 20 years.  This year may be a revolving door as the opening to the future.  I also feel this FO will move the good minor league pitchers in the lower levels much faster than the old FO did (At least I hope).  That would have us with a homegrown rotation by 2021 at the latest.  

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    They also could have traded for Gerritt Cole.

    Don't get me wrong, I like Gerrit Cole, not sure he's all that much better than Odorizzi though. Just taking a quick look at the stats and a lot of stuff seems pretty close. Their FIPs are a bit apart but the problem there is Cole regularly under-performs his while Odorizzi regularly over-performs. Take in to account what was paid in prospects and and contract, seem pretty close.

     

    Sources:

    https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/65957/gerrit-cole

    https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/58507/jake-odorizzi

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    The Twins are much deeper in starting pitching than in any of the last 20 years. This year may be a revolving door as the opening to the future. I also feel this FO will move the good minor league pitchers in the lower levels much faster than the old FO did (At least I hope). That would have us with a homegrown rotation by 2021 at the latest.

    I don't see how adding Odorizzi/Sanchez suddenly makes us deep in pitching.
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    the obvious question: have Falvine done much of anything to improve spots 5-16?

    It requires a leap of faith to conclude they have.

    That's fair.  Here's a comparison of where we stood on opening day 2017 vs 2018, where I've tried to roughly average bWAR and fWAR.

     

    Entering 2017:

    Santana coming off a 3-4 WAR season

    Santiago coming off a ~1 WAR season

    Gibson coming off a ~1 WAR season

    Hughes coming off surgery

    Mejia with 1 MLB game

    Duffey coming off a ~0 WAR season

    Berrios with 14 MLB games

    Jorge with zero MLB games

    Slegers with zero MLB games

    Gonsalves with zero MLB games

    Romero with zero MLB games

     

    Entering 2018:

    Santana coming off a 3-4 WAR season but scheduled to miss at least the first month

    Odorizzi coming off a ~0 WAR season

    Gibson coming off a ~0 WAR season

    Hughes coming off another surgery

    Mejia coming off a ~1 WAR season

    Duffey hasn't started a game in over a year

    Berrios coming off a ~2 WAR season

    Sanchez coming off a ~0 WAR season

    May coming off surgery, hasn't started a game in over 2 years

    Slegers with 3 MLB games

    Jorge with 2 MLB games

    Gonsalves with zero MLB games

    Romero with zero MLB games

     

    I'd pick the 2018 group, but its primary improvement is Berrios. Still quite a bit of risk, and not a ton of upside -- I guess Odorizzi is a year removed from a ~3 WAR season, but lest we forget, so was Gibson entering 2017.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Doesn't look a lot better.... Let's not forget Santana isn't getting younger, at some point he will get worse.

     

    There is hope, but almost none of it has been added by this front office, unless you like Odorizzi

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    I don't see how adding Odorizzi/Sanchez suddenly makes us deep in pitching.

    I said deeper which you have seemed to confuse with better.  Gonsalves, Romero, and Sanchaz are probably going to be better than Tepsesh, Turley, Wick and the others the Twins have run out there lately.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Doesn't matter who their choices were, this is what they accomplished so far.... Usually you judge people on actions, not what they wanted to do, but didn't

    Right, but I was refuting that the current moves have anything to do with judging their "enlightenment". I'd think failure to get better pitchers more likely stems from tentativeness, frugality, an unfavorable destination for free agents or other reasons. I don't know that it has much to do with enlightenment:

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Right, but I was refuting that the current moves have anything to do with judging their "enlightenment". I'd think failure to get better pitchers more likely stems from tentativeness, frugality, an unfavorable destination for free agents or other reasons. I don't know that it has much to do with enlightenment:

    Got it. I guess I don't care if they are enlightened, or whatever. I care if the make the team better, or worse.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    If the market comes back on in next few days for remaining free agents like I think could happen. I could see the Twins signing Cobb for a three year contract at 36 to 39 million dollar mark with more incentives added to the contract to get the deal done. This would put the Twins pitching rotation in position to compete for the whole season with likely rotation Santana, Berrios,Odorizzi, Cobb, Gibson, and then you would have Hughes if healthy, Duffy, Mejia, and May to fill if anybody hurt or not performing. Also this this still leaves the two in minor leagues also available. It also may mean they don't add Cobb may wait until trade deadline to add a pitcher to see how the season goes. I soon would think they are going to turn their attention to resigning some players and extending some of their young talent. I guessing they are behind on this because of the slow off season in acquiring talent.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Imo, it is a pipe dream that Berrios signs an extension. It is getting rare for elite talents to do so.

     

    As for pitching, waiting for the deadline is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy.... They aren't likely to be really good, and need more pitching....

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    the obvious question: have Falvine done much of anything to improve spots 5-16?

    It requires a leap of faith to conclude they have.

     

    I thought they should have signed an ace? Now they should have signed a bunch of minor league depth?

     

    As some other posters have said, the plan may largely be to let progression candidates actually progress. We get ourselves tied up over acquiring a #1 or 2 starter (whatever that means), but maybe the plan is for Berrios to take a step forward. It's not unreasonable to think he's capable of producing 4-5 fWAR. He produced about 3 fWAR last year as a fairly raw 23 year old. Steamer has him projected at 2.0 fWAR, which of course includes his terrible 2016 season. Fangraphs readers project him for 4.3 fWAR. For comparison, Steamer projects 3.9 fWAR for Darvish, and Fangraphs readers project 3.7. It's possible Berrios could deliver a very similar performance for about $19.5 million fewer.

     

    Let's see how it plays out. If Berrios realizes his potential, then they already have the ace we're clamoring for. The addition of Odorizzi would then bolster the middle of the rotation, and the back end could be filled by guys returning from injury and/or promising rookies. If things don't go as planned, they have plenty of prospect capital to acquire someone during the season.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Imo, it is a pipe dream that Berrios signs an extension. It is getting rare for elite talents to do so.
     

     

    That could very well be, but free agency has been a nightmare even for some quality players. Some guys might rather have the security of an early extension.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    I thought they should have signed an ace? Now they should have signed a bunch of minor league depth?

     

    As some other posters have said, the plan may largely be to let progression candidates actually progress. We get ourselves tied up over acquiring a #1 or 2 starter (whatever that means), but maybe the plan is for Berrios to take a step forward. It's not unreasonable to think he's capable of producing 4-5 fWAR. He produced about 3 fWAR last year as a fairly raw 23 year old. Steamer has him projected at 2.0 fWAR, which of course includes his terrible 2016 season. Fangraphs readers project him for 4.3 fWAR. For comparison, Steamer projects 3.9 fWAR for Darvish, and Fangraphs readers project 3.7. It's possible Berrios could deliver a very similar performance for about $19.5 million fewer.

     

    Let's see how it plays out. If Berrios realizes his potential, then they already have the ace we're clamoring for. The addition of Odorizzi would then bolster the middle of the rotation, and the back end could be filled by guys returning from injury and/or promising rookies. If things don't go as planned, they have plenty of prospect capital to acquire someone during the season.

    Signing an ace would push our current 1-5 starters down to 2-6. That's probably a better way to improve depth than acquiring more 4-5-6 types.

     

    You make it sound like the Twins could only have one ~4 WAR pitcher.  Having Berrios add 1-2 WAR would be nice, but so would adding Darvish's ~4 WAR over, say, Hughes/Sanchez -- without costing any prospect capital, and not making us overly reliant on the vagaries of the trade market (and helping us from day 1 of the season rather than day 1 after the trade deadline too).

    Edited by spycake
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    As for pitching, waiting for the deadline is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy.... They aren't likely to be really good, and need more pitching....

    Not only that, but even if they make it to the midway point within reach of contention, the primary focus of the FO seems to be finding great "value." That's going to be tough to come by if they're buying at the deadline, especially if the player is a rental. They weren't willing to make any big moves this offseason, I'm not sure why there is any faith in them acquiring a front end starter at the deadline. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I thought they should have signed an ace? Now they should have signed a bunch of minor league depth?

     

    As some other posters have said, the plan may largely be to let progression candidates actually progress. We get ourselves tied up over acquiring a #1 or 2 starter (whatever that means), but maybe the plan is for Berrios to take a step forward. It's not unreasonable to think he's capable of producing 4-5 fWAR. He produced about 3 fWAR last year as a fairly raw 23 year old. Steamer has him projected at 2.0 fWAR, which of course includes his terrible 2016 season. Fangraphs readers project him for 4.3 fWAR. For comparison, Steamer projects 3.9 fWAR for Darvish, and Fangraphs readers project 3.7. It's possible Berrios could deliver a very similar performance for about $19.5 million fewer.

     

    Let's see how it plays out. If Berrios realizes his potential, then they already have the ace we're clamoring for. The addition of Odorizzi would then bolster the middle of the rotation, and the back end could be filled by guys returning from injury and/or promising rookies. If things don't go as planned, they have plenty of prospect capital to acquire someone during the season.

    I like and share your optimism on Berrios, but even with Odorizzi the rotation is still looking at too many #5 types getting too many starts.
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    I said deeper which you have seemed to confuse with better.  Gonsalves, Romero, and Sanchaz are probably going to be better than Tepsesh, Turley, Wick and the others the Twins have run out there lately.

    Chief said deeper too, no? Also if the added depth isn't "better", what good is it to be deeper?

     

    Gonsalves and Romero were already available last year, the Twins just chose not to use them. Maybe they will be more ready later this season, but their presence isn't much of a credit to the current front office.

     

    And It's not altogether clear that Sanchez is going to be a better option than those other guys.  Last 3 seasons by bWAR: 0.1, -1.2, -0.8.  And we may not have the luxury of keeping him in reserve as a midseason reinforcement, or for a spot start -- his contract apparently calls for us to put him on the opening day roster or release him.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Right, but that's pretty close to the Archer scenario in terms of requiring significant prospects.

    That's still their choice though.

    They chose not to pay the required trade package, they deserve to be judged on their choices on the roster.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Don't get me wrong, I like Gerrit Cole, not sure he's all that much better than Odorizzi though. Just taking a quick look at the stats and a lot of stuff seems pretty close. Their FIPs are a bit apart but the problem there is Cole regularly under-performs his while Odorizzi regularly over-performs. Take in to account what was paid in prospects and and contract, seem pretty close.

     

    Sources:

    https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/65957/gerrit-cole

    https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/58507/jake-odorizzi

    Gerritt Cole is a much better pitcher than Jake Odorizzi, which is why he cost more to acquire in a trade.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    The Twins are much deeper in starting pitching than in any of the last 20 years. This year may be a revolving door as the opening to the future. I also feel this FO will move the good minor league pitchers in the lower levels much faster than the old FO did (At least I hope). That would have us with a homegrown rotation by 2021 at the latest.

    So right around the time most of Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Kepler, Polanco are leaving in free agency?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Chief said deeper too, no? Also if the added depth isn't "better", what good is it to be deeper?

     

    Gonsalves and Romero were already available last year, the Twins just chose not to use them. Maybe they will be more ready later this season, but their presence isn't much of a credit to the current front office.

     

    And It's not altogether clear that Sanchez is going to be a better option than those other guys.  Last 3 seasons by bWAR: 0.1, -1.2, -0.8.  And we may not have the luxury of keeping him in reserve as a midseason reinforcement, or for a spot start -- his contract apparently calls for us to put him on the opening day roster or release him.

    You seemed to have missed my point. The bottom end pitchers we use this year are likely to be Gonsalves, Romero, Slegers, Littel etc. That could be light years better than Colon, Turley,Tepesch .

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

    Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...