Give Alex Meyer A Chance To Start

That's really been the the theme with this "rebuild," hasn't it? Setting up young players for failure. Rushing Hicks to the majors twice, before he was ready. Not learning the key lesson from that mistake they rushed Buxton to the majors twice, before he was ready. They've been jerking around May, Meyer, and Duffey for the past 10 calendar months. Then they move Sano to a position he has never played on the fly while he is still trying to establish himself at the major league level. Not to mention calling up Kepler and Polanco (multiple times) to sit on the bench.

This comment is absolutely spot on. I had to search back through the thread to pull it back up. Really questionable overall approach to developing young players. I think you could add Arcia to this list.

Eddie Rosario, on the other hand, is one of the few Twin prospects that has gotten the consistent playing time that is needed to establish himself.

Nolasco needs to be traded asap. He is already reverting to the Nolasco of old. That would open a spot for two of our young pitchers (more than likely Duffey and Berrios) and then we go forward from there.

Maybe trade Nolasco to the Tigers? How would you feel if your favorite team signed Jordan Zimmermann and Mike Pelfrey to multi-year contracts in the same off-season? Is that a net positive?

I can't wait to see Meyer.  He looked like crap in spring training, but turned it around in AAA.

Here's hoping tonight's catcher doesn't leave him hanging like they did with Berrios.  When a rookie pitcher runs into trouble, the catcher is the one that should calm him down.

Obviously this is true, and I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting otherwise.

 

However, it's not unreasonable to suggest that their expectations and preconceptions are affecting their usage of him.  Molitor is on record as preferring Meyer in the bullpen -- is he more concerned about setting up Meyer for a successful start, or about lining up the rotation for the return of Santana/Gibson?

I don't know what other point you could be making other than to suggest that Molitor (secretly or strategically) wants Meyer to fail in order to get him in the bullpen and free a spot up for Santana/Gibson.  I think that's pretty unreasonable to suggest.

This thread just goes back to the prospect paradox: the team deserves criticism either because: 1) the team is unwilling to promote prospects b/c it is risk adverse and allows useful talent to waste away in the minor leagues, or 2) the team too readily promotes prospects and puts them in the position to fail.  We have these same arguments about every prospect when they initially struggle, yet too many fans--rather than accepting that even the best-developed prospects still fail when first exposed--will impugn the intentions and the integrity of the front office.   It's a rather insufferable attitude. 

No.  I thought I was clear, but I guess not.  It's obviously not about wanting someone to fail, the Twins don't want that, and we fans don't want that either.  It's about not trusting someone to succeed, and the decisions and priorities one makes based on that level of trust/confidence.

 

I am sure Molitor and company would love nothing more than for Alex Meyer to throw a great game tonight, but evidence suggests that they do not believe that is particularly likely, and thus have been putting priorities about Meyer's development (i.e. the timing of his promotion and MLB appearances so far) well below other priorities like, say, stashing an emergency arm at the back of the pen, or setting up the rotation for the easy return of a disabled veteran.  (Sounds patriotic when I put it like that )

 

They are going to Meyer tonight ahead of Milone, which is definitely something in Meyer's favor.  It's about the bare minimum they could have done, though, given what little else they have done with him since his arguably premature promotion -- if they were going to promote him this early, he needed to get some kind of look before they would potentially send him back down.  A little like Max Kepler getting that one last start before getting sent back down.

Although Meyer and Kepler lingering on the bench isn't ideal, the harm of a loss of two week's worth of at bats or starts isn't so great, and the benefit of limited MLB exposure (even bearing witness on the bench) may chill the initial anxieties that plague prospects in the early going.   My point is that the Twins aren't doing the least they could in regard to development for Meyer.  There's a human complexity to actual success at the highest levels that goes beyond the number of at bats and innings pitched -- I think that's something pretty easy to discount when we talk about what's best for a given player. Although, sitting on the bench for two weeks may not have been ideal for Meyer, it may have done him some good in managing his inevitable debut as starter.   At the very least, the premise shouldn't be discounted out of hand.  

The Twins' plans may not have been ideal, but nor have their plans been enacted with total disregard to what best for the player's development either; it's complex, and a balance between what's best for the team and what's best for the player, without disregarding either. 

I'm not alleging any ineptitude or anything nefarious, either of the team or of the posters here, and I would suggest you do the same.  Facts and opinions are often quite a bit more complicated than they seem.

I'm not sure what you're alleging then.  There's awful lot of implication and inference, combined with the disclaimer "well that's not what I'm saying".   (For my part, it's pretty clear what's being alleged even if put in negative terms and not overtly suggested). 

The complexity of the situation, as I think I've indicated, would seem to cut-against making much of the Twins' disparate choices over the span of two years (or two weeks) with regards to Meyer.  (Things have probably changed since last season, such as Meyer's actual AAA success as a starter.)  

Am I really not being clear?  I feel like I am being clear.  The Twins don't hope Meyer to fail, but their belief in the likelihood of his success right now is influencing their priorities.  So they're putting a lower priority on putting him in the best position to succeed than other priorities, like having a emergency arm at the back of the pen for another extra inning game, or setting up the rotation for Santana's return.  This isn't unique to this situation or to the Twins, it's something that literally everybody does, everyday.  And it might make some things a little harder for those people and things that get assigned that lower priority, like Alex Meyer in this case.

What exactly isn't clear about that?  I'd honestly like to know.

I guess what isn't clear is what you make of that determination - that the Twins are deprioritizing putting Meyer in the best position.  (I don't necessarily agree with that determination, as I think it's more complex, even though I do agree it's less than ideal).   The implication/inference of that determination would seem to be that the Twins are making a mistake. And for some posters, maybe not you, this mistake is illustrative of a general incompetence by the FO in regard to the development of prospects, and hence the piling on (before Meyer even makes his first ML start, no less).  

That's fair.  But I suspect somewhat overrated.  The Twins opted not to promote Meyer either of the last two Septembers to "bear witness on the bench", even though it literally would have cost them almost nothing (a league minimum paycheck and some days service time for a prospect likely controlled through his age 32 season anyway).  And he bore witness on the bench last summer briefly already.

 

And the promotion of Kepler to "bear witness on the bench" (I like that phrase ) was also timed quite oddly, given how he already bore witness on the bench (do judges do that? ) last September, and he had all of 2 career games at AAA when it happened (and a lot to prove at that level yet, like Meyer as a SP this year except for different reasons).  And his appearances, like Meyer's, felt a bit more happenstance (i.e. starting against a tough lefty, then sitting for over a week) than you would imagine for a careful, considered introduction of a prospect to the MLB world.

Everyone agrees it's strange.  Are Molli and Terry on the same page or bumping heads?  This happened once before with Meyer (Coach killer?) and Santana SS vs. CF.  Next thing we knew Gardy went from safe to fired, to unemployed, to MiLB road consultant or some made up thing.  Therefore it's clear, Ryan is actually setting Molitor up for some sort of weird backward promotion.  

But seriously, no one whole heartedly wants Meyer to fail.  But more people than you think value being right (selfish success) more than they wish for others' success.  You're being naive to suggest that personal motives don't play in and that everyone desires to see Meyer pitch well. 

Personally, I think some success as a starter is a step toward dominance in the pen.