Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account
  • Fixing Jose Berrios


    Parker Hageman

    On Friday night in Kansas City Bert Blyleven described to viewers what he and the Twins’ coaching staff were working on with Jose Berrios in order to straighten him out.

    “Right...there!” Blyleven exclaimed as Berrios delivered a fastball for strike three to the Royals’ Jarrod Dyson in the bottom of the first. It was a beautiful pitch that was beautifully executed by the rookie. “EXPLODE towards home plate,” he emphasized. As the replay of the strikeout rolled, Blyleven further elaborated by saying “once you get to that balance point, utilize the rubber and explode towards home plate” and that Berrios needed to “push off” the rubber more.

    And just like that, Jose Berrios was fixed forever, right?

    Image courtesy of Brad Rempal // USA Today

    Twins Video

    For those who are able to see the embedded Twitter post, you can watch and listen to the entire conversation here:

    Berrios, of course, came unglued shortly thereafter. He issued four walks and allowed four runs to score during his four innings of work. He either stopped exploding towards home plate or that wasn’t the pitching tip that was going to remedy what ails him.

    Now, regular Twins broadcast viewers will recall this pitching advice. This, along with a “good downward plane”, have become common pitching jargon slung around for years. Scott Baker never figured out how to get a good downward plane. It has come to the point where if any Twins pitcher is struggling, the inevitable cure from the broadcast booth would likely be one of those two remedies.

    To be clear, I’m not suggesting that Bert Blyleven doesn’t know pitching. Bert Blyleven has forgotten more about pitching in the time it took you to get to this point in the sentence than most people hope to learn in a lifetime. However, when it comes to utilizing the rubber by pushing off, as Blyleven suggests, science might not agree with the Dutchman’s assessment. According to Kyle Boddy and his Driveline Baseball think tank in Seattle, Washington has studied the “push off” phenomenon and his preliminary research shows that the back leg push off is not the velocity-inducing catalyst that people think it is.

    Boddy offered the Mariners’ Arquimedes Caminero as a good example of how velocity isn’t generated off the back leg. When he gets to his balance point and goes forward, his foot disengages the rubber area but doesn’t push off.

    http://i.imgur.com/cxLJzHG.gif

    When it comes this particular pitching cue, Blyleven is incorrect. By Boddy’s account, coming from someone who has dedicated his career to understanding the science behind it, pushing from the back leg has little influence on velocity or command. What we hear from players, former players and coaches is a disconnect between what they FELT and what is actually happening during the process. To Blyleven, the act of driving off the back leg may have felt like pushing off the pitching rubber but that is not what actually transpires in the kinetic chain.

    Berrios’ problem does not stem from not utilizing the pitching rubber enough.

    In the case of Berrios’ development, as Mike Berardino of the St Paul Pioneer Press recently phrased it, the Twins are using a “village” approach. In addition to Blyleven, Berrios has been receiving advice from Neil Allen, Eddie Guardado and teammate Ervin Santana. While the guidance from multiple experienced baseball men can be beneficial, there is also the danger that a young prospect has too many messages being communicated -- especially when some of the advice, in spite of the well-meaning nature, is wrong.

    There is no denying that Berrios needs refinement. When it comes to his fastball command, he has found the zone just 46% of the time -- compared to the 53.5% major league average. In fact, of those who have thrown 350 or more fastballs, Berrios’ in-zone rate is the fifth lowest. Beyond that, Berrios also struggles to command his fastball in the zone, missing the glove by a wide margin and winding up in a hitter’s whump-em zone.

    Berrios KC.PNG

    That being said, in spite of the poor command, Berrios’ movement and velocity on his fastball has also incited plenty of swing-and-misses making it a very good potential weapon. Right now his fastball gets a swinging strike 9.3% of the time it’s thrown -- well above the league average of 7.5%. By comparison, the hard-throwing Noah Syndergaard gets a swinging strike 9.5% of the time. That would be good over the course of an entire season. That would be really good.

    http://i.imgur.com/VH4xtUF.gif

    Guardado told me something in spring training that resonated about his instructional approach and the psyche of pitchers in general. “I don’t like to go in there and fix a damn engine when you only need to change a spark plug,” he said. “That’s what I try to do. Keep it simple, keep it easy. Not too much to think about because it is already tough to go out there and the pressure out there trying to compete.”

    There is a lot of pressure. Especially for someone who has been deemed the team’s top pitching prospect and one -- through various social media channels -- who has also set a lofty expectation for himself as well. Berrios has talent, skill and dedication like few others have ever had or ever wish to have and he has carved up hitters in the minor leagues. It is only a matter of time before it all clicks.

    MORE FROM TWINS DAILY
    — Latest Twins coverage from our writers
    — Recent Twins discussion in our forums
    — Follow Twins Daily via Twitter, Facebook or email
    — Become a Twins Daily Caretaker

     Share


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Featured Comments

    I can see why you might think that, but the argument that this writer put forth was a little more nuanced. Basically, shortish pitchers like Berrios need to create a fair amount of momentum and burst from their lower half in order to (in his opinion) safely generate arm speed. If the top-half (arms, shoulders) are moving too slow, it ends up lagging behind the lower half. That lack of sync causes the release point to be behind and pitches to drift armside.

     

    I wish you could see the article. He added a couple of nice gifs that contrasted two pitches against different lefties. They may have been cherry-picked, but even to my untrained eye I could see a subtle difference between them. Basically, if you look at where Berrios's arm is when his left foot hits the ground, you can see that his arm is just a little bit behind on a arm-side miss than when he throws a good strike.

    Roy Oswalt comes to mind. He got really low and drove hard with his legs.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Seeing the struggles of top prospects like May, Meyer, and Barrios makes one leery about what else is in the cupboards.

    Seems like there's plenty of groceries in the cupboard.  Old Mother Hubbard don't seem to be much of a cook though.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    This conversation is above my pay grade as a fan.... All I know is someone needs to fix Berrios, because he's the only internal option that could realistically make a difference for this rotation in 2017. I really don't want to think about the possibility that Berrios is another #4/5 starter. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Won't explain the 4 walks in an inning but I have noticed the same thing in Berrios as I did in May when he first came up.    When they get ahead in the count they are trying to make the perfect pitch and invariably throw the curve balls in the dirt or the fast balls head high or the sliders a foot wide.    I have no problem with throwing off the plate on 0-2 but if you are not even tempting the batter then you are truly wasting the pitches and the advantage of being ahead while running up the pitch count and evening the count to no purpose.   

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Very nice insights, Parker. I recently saw some Nolan Ryan footage and noticed the same thing. He did not push off of the rubber at all, either. He had a long stride but lifted his right leg after he planted his left and just pulled it through the motion after him. All his velocity came from his 90-degree trunk rotation which was perfectly synced with his trebuchet-like arm whip. Sandy Koufax was similar but appeared to have more "fall" in his delivery, buckling his back leg on the rubber as he started his motion towards the plate so he would drop forward, rotate, and arm-whip at the same time. Of course the mound was 18 inches high back then and the Koufax style reflected that. Doubt he could use the same motion on today's shorter mound. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I know exactly how to fix him:

     

    I'm sure a lot of people can relate to the "I play better after a few beers" theory in softball, golf, pool, whatever your game. It's all about getting yourself in the right state of mind. Maybe the kid just needs a shot of Wild Turkey in between innings.

     

    But seriously. I think it's all mental/confidence. One good start will go a long way towards getting that ball rolling. He's nervous, he's pressing, he's hanging on every pitch....which trickles down into his mechanics. He just needs to trust his stuff/mechanics, and go out there and have some fun.

    Edited by Darius
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Brunansky did some talk on the morning show on KSTP last week about players having multiple coaches and how you, the team coach, deals with all those other people offering advice. The easiest is that everyone's remarks are funneled thru one person. The second best is Bruno's approach, where he listens to the player's take on the advice, why they are listening, asks about their feelings about what they are doing, and then goes forth from there, discussing how we should actually tackle this problem and the advice. The player, first, ahs to recognize that something isn't working. They should feel it, or see it, at some point.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Biggest thing for Berrios is to just r e l a x. Once he did that in Rochester he was back to his dominant self. He has the stuff and command, if he isn't amped up. We all know he is a hard worker and wants to do well, he just has to "do" it. I don't know if pitching in the bullpen will help, it might though especially if Berrios can get a clean inning or two. Obviously I am not suggesting on turning Berrios into a reliever, but have him in the bullpen until he's got the confidence in himself to start. I mean it worked for Johan Santana and Fransico Liriano it could work for Berrios too.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Another interesting tidbit is Berrios' release point has dropped some in August. Obviously there is not a ton of data from earlier in his development (mostly AZ Fall and MiLB All Star Game appearances) and the drop is roughly .3 inches but the Twins have driven home finding his release point. 

     

    Brooksbaseball-Chart.png

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I think the Twins need to stop "tinkering" and let Berrios pitch for better or for worse.  In Santiago's case he stated that the Twins had already started changing his approach after his second start.  Maybe they should give these guys a couple more starts before changing things up.   

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Parker is way too technical....and I know he likes this stuff. There is too much on Berrios' plate right now. Like the the old golf pro Bob Toski(before Leadbettter and Butch Harmon) he said you can have, "paralysis from over over analysis".

    Pitching is really a free flowing motion...like the golf swing each individual has his own little quirks and idiosyncrasies.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Very nice insights, Parker. I recently saw some Nolan Ryan footage and noticed the same thing. He did not push off of the rubber at all, either. He had a long stride but lifted his right leg after he planted his left and just pulled it through the motion after him. All his velocity came from his 90-degree trunk rotation which was perfectly synced with his trebuchet-like arm whip. Sandy Koufax was similar but appeared to have more "fall" in his delivery, buckling his back leg on the rubber as he started his motion towards the plate so he would drop forward, rotate, and arm-whip at the same time. Of course the mound was 18 inches high back then and the Koufax style reflected that. Doubt he could use the same motion on today's shorter mound. 

    Yeah, I read an article recently that found that mound push off did not help with velocity at least, BUT that the landing leg is what mattered. Like, landing straight and pole vaulting hard off of it,  or something similar to this is what generates power and velocity.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Parker is way too technical....and I know he likes this stuff. There is too much on Berrios' plate right now. Like the the old golf pro Bob Toski(before Leadbettter and Butch Harmon) he said you can have, "paralysis from over over analysis". Pitching is really a free flowing motion...like the golf swing each individual has his own little quirks and idiosyncrasies.

    The more the consistent and repeatable the swing, the better the golfer. Same for pitching.

     

    Mind also analysis is preferred over lysis of the player. The paralysis does not come from the analysis but the lack of knowledge involved in the treatment plan.

    Edited by The Wise One
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Parker is way too technical....and I know he likes this stuff. There is too much on Berrios' plate right now.

     

     

    What? I'm not being technical. The point is the Twins are being too technical, and in this case, feeding him false information. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    I know exactly how to fix him:

    I'm sure a lot of people can relate to the "I play better after a few beers" theory in softball, golf, pool, whatever your game. It's all about getting yourself in the right state of mind. Maybe the kid just needs a shot of Wild Turkey in between innings.
     

     

    I would watch that game.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Per reporters: Twins are sending him and Tyler Duffey down to Rochester.

    Twins need to send Allen and Molitor down to Rochester.

     

    Hopefully the advice for Berrios when he gets down there will be, "next time you get up there just do what you've done at every level and don't listen to a word those guys say.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Berrios now has been sent back down.  One of the best pitchers in the minors get to the majors twice and his pitching goes to hell and he gets sent back down.  The problem isn't that a room full of people are giving him technical pitching instruction.  The problem is that a room full of people are even allowed to approach him with advice is the issue.  It means that no one has taken ownership for the development of our prize pitching future.  This alone should be reason to fire Moitar.

     

    I cannot but wonder if the same thing wasn't done with Buxton and some of the other hitters that have failed.  Can you imagine Jason Day on the practice range at the US Open and a series of retired good players not trained teachers mind you, just guys that used to be a good players came up to him one at a time and suggested that he change his grip, alignment and tempo?  They'd shut down the practice tee.

     

    The circumstance described is the most damning description I've ever heard of how to deal with a valued prospect.

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Who is the Twins' AAA pitching coach? Can we send Neil Allen down and call up that guy?

     

    Seriously though, the Twins need to give serious thought to a new pitching coach. The fact that everybody from Blyleven to Santana and Dick Such was giving him something different to work on tells me that Allen is not communicating well.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

    Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...