Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account
  • Dyson Drama: The Case of the Mystery Injury


    Nick Nelson

    The Minnesota Twins acted at the deadline and acquired the impact relief help they badly needed. One week later, in the wake of a catastrophic series of events, they are heading into their most important series of the season without their premier addition at their disposal.

    The fishy circumstances behind this situation reflect poorly on either Sam Dyson, the Twins, the Giants, or perhaps all three parties. Whatever the case, it's very bad news for Minnesota.

    Image courtesy of Steve Mitchell-USA TODAY Sports

    Twins Video

    He wasn't the sexiest pickup in everyone's eyes, but from all available evidence, Dyson was the high-caliber reinforcement this bullpen required at a minimum. He's been a mostly consistent performer at the back end of MLB bullpens for the past five years and was enjoying an excellent season as setup man for San Francisco, ranking among the league's leading relievers in Win Probability Added.

    Against this backdrop, Dyson's immediate collapse for the Twins was a total shock to the system. He completely imploded in his debut, blowing a three-run save against the Marlins in an eventual loss, which carried the added negative of burning a Taylor Rogers appearance.

    The following night, he came back out against a similarly bad Royals offense and looked similarly terrible, coughing up three runs on four hits while recording only two outs, endangering a blowout victory.

    In both games, the performance matched the results. Dyson didn't look as bad as the assortment of Quad-A relief arms who've briefly passed through Minnesota this year – he looked worse. The right-hander's execution was nonexistent as he consistently missed targets and fell behind in counts before serving up beach balls.

    When news surfaced on Sunday that Dyson was battling biceps tendinitis and would be heading to the injured list, the revelation wasn't surprising, but it was upsetting. And the details we've seen bleed out in the days since cast an ominous cloud over the entire ordeal.

    To recap...

    Dyson told reporters on Monday he's been dealing with "an issue" in his shoulder that dates back to around two weeks before he was traded, adding that he was "just grinding through it the whole time" while costing the Twins dearly in his two appearances.

    https://twitter.com/DaneMizutani/status/1158501551805206530

    By all accounts, the Giants were not explicitly aware of Dyson's ailment. Although La Velle doesn't sound entirely convinced in his tweet here:

    https://twitter.com/LaVelleNeal/status/1158863783265284097

    As I see it, there are three possible explanations for what happened here.

    1: The Giants did in fact know, or suspect, that Dyson was playing hurt before they traded him, and failed to inform the Twins of it. Not unprecedented, but this would be grounds for Minnesota to seek recourse through the league office, and there've been no rumblings of such.

    2: The Giants knew or suspected that he was hurt and made it known to the Twins, who traded for him anyway. This isn't unthinkable, because the ailment affecting Dyson – if it's indeed only a routine bout of tendinitis – isn't all that uncommon or concerning on its face. But I find this hard to believe. Is a front office that's known for fiercely protecting its minor-league assets going to trade three prospects for a guy with an aching arm? And even if so, are they going to throw him into a game right off the plane with said bum wing? Then AGAIN the next day after he looked horrendous in his debut?!

    I find it impossible to believe the Twins were aware of this affliction until after his second appearance. Which leads us to our third and most likely scenario...

    3: Dyson did not tell the Giants he was hurting, and also gave the Twins no indications of it until he'd been walloped in two straight outings.

    This would be fairly typical for a professional ballplayer – gutting it out in the name of "toughness" while hurting yourself and your team in the process. It's a toxic mindset, and one that this new Twins front office has admirably rooted out. The 2019 Twins have largely avoided lengthy absences and setbacks because they seem to foster an open, honest environment where players are forthright about nagging pains and noticeable discomfort. Minnesota's strategy of playing it cautiously at almost every turn has worked out well.

    So if this is indeed what happened, Dyson is bringing an immediate culture clash that is far more problematic to me than a couple of rough pitching performances. That I can handle. But taking the mound in important spots for a contending team when you know something's wrong (and this wasn't exactly minor; he claims he could feel it when "picking a plate up in the kitchen or putting [his] (expletive) clothes on")? Pretty inexcusable in my eyes. A terrible first impression from a guy who was too stubbornly focused on creating the opposite.

    Having said all that, I have a hard time letting Derek Falvey and Thad Levine off the hook entirely, even if they weren't made aware of this arm problem. I remarked in my Week in Review column on Sunday, published before Dyson revealed that the issue had been affecting him for half a month, that his "issue actually appears to date back a ways; in his last four appearances with the Giants, he got only one swing-and-miss on 42 pitches after inducing 18 in his first eight July outings (15% rate)."

    In my mind, when a pitcher who's accustomed to missing bats suddenly stops doing so in such stark fashion, it's one of the clearest indicators something is wrong. One swinging strike on 42 pitches is egregious; by comparison, Ehire Adrianza got two swinging strikes on 14 pitches when he threw an inning against the Mets in July. Now, after pitching twice for the Twins, Dyson has induced two whiffs on his last 80 pitches.

    He's broken. He was starting to break before he got here. But because he failed to report it and the Twins failed to notice it, he yielded two costly meltdowns on the hill, and is unavailable for the most pivotal stretch of the season.

    Hopefully the bullpen can get by without him, and a little rest serves as the fix he needs. But for now, this is looking like one of the biggest deadline duds in memory, and a fiasco that – unlike most of Byron Buxton's bad breaks – could've and should've been avoided.

    MORE FROM TWINS DAILY
    — Latest Twins coverage from our writers
    — Recent Twins discussion in our forums
    — Follow Twins Daily via Twitter, Facebook or email
    — Become a Twins Daily Caretaker

     Share


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Featured Comments

     

    Baseball reference Game logs. Mid May he had 3 straight appearances with 0 swinging strikes, and on each side of those 3 games had a game with 12 pitches and 1 swinging strike.

     

    55 pitches in Mid June with 2 swinging strikes. Again, this really wasn't that huge of anomaly. He wasn't struggling through appearances. He threw 42 effective pitches across 4 outings 

    Thanks for the tip! You know, I look at those game logs all the time, and never really noticed the "StS" column.

     

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=dysonsa01&t=p&year=2019

     

    If I were you, I'd lead your point with these specific examples, rather than immediately jumping to the absurd/troll accusations. Nick may be incorrect in this instance, but he deserves an opportunity to change his mind before getting berated!

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Thanks for the tip! You know, I look at those game logs all the time, and never really noticed the "StS" column.

     

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=dysonsa01&t=p&year=2019

     

    If I were you, I'd lead your point with these specific examples, rather than immediately jumping to the absurd/troll accusations. Nick may be incorrect in this instance, but he deserves an opportunity to change his mind before getting berated!

     

    Probably a good point and I was too harsh. I don't like the insinuation the front office didn't do their jobs, when using cherry picked examples. If someone in the front office deserves being called out I'm all for it, but the evidence here is flimsy at very best

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Probably a good point and I was too harsh. I don't like the insinuation the front office didn't do their jobs, when using cherry picked examples. If someone in the front office deserves being called out I'm all for it, but the evidence here is flimsy at very best

    Maybe there was nothing to see. These were literally the last four appearances before they traded for him so, again, the heightened relevance seems self-evident to me. I didn't "cherry-pick" four appearances from mid-May.

     

    The swinging strikes are a piece of the puzzle that caught my attention — granted, with the benefit of hindsight, having watched him get shelled while fooling nobody in his first two appearances for MN.

     

    What we know (now) is that Dyson was pitching through an arm issue, which worsened as soon as he got here leading to an implosion and a very poorly timed IL stint. Were there indicators in his recent performance that could've been seen? Reduced movement on his pitches? Small lapses in command? I don't know, but then again I don't have the full resources of a sophisticated analytical operation.

     

    I think it's quite a stretch to equate me saying I find it hard to let Falvey & Levine "off the hook entirely" with saying they "didn't do their jobs." Anyone who reads my writing here regularly knows I have an extremely favorable view of this front office, which is why the whole situation hits me in such a weird way. I thought it was made clear I hold Dyson most accountable. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    What we know (now) is that Dyson was pitching through an arm issue, which worsened as soon as he got here leading to an implosion and a very poorly timed IL stint.

    I think we have to take Dyson's word with a grain of salt too. Players aren't really unbiased reporters of such things, especially if they need to explain a poor performance. I'm pretty sure he experienced something recently with his arm, but I don't really know how it compares to other instances in his career, etc.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I don't know how I missed this quote before:

     

    https://www.twincities.com/2019/08/05/sam-dyson-speaks-out-about-struggles-since-joining-twins-at-trade-deadline/

     

     

    “You could feel it when you were picking a plate up in the kitchen or putting your (expletive) clothes on,” Dyson said. “It wasn’t the best.”

     

    Were they special clothes for performing an "(expletive)" task? Or clothes he really doesn't like? Maybe he doesn't like any clothes -- maybe he should come off the IL and try pitching shirtless. :)

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I think we have to take Dyson's word with a grain of salt too. Players aren't really unbiased reporters of such things, especially if they need to explain a poor performance. I'm pretty sure he experienced something recently with his arm, but I don't really know how it compares to other instances in his career, etc.

    If I start snap hooking my driver on the golf course, you best believe I'm going to blame my back acting up that day!

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I don't know how I missed this quote before:

     

    https://www.twincities.com/2019/08/05/sam-dyson-speaks-out-about-struggles-since-joining-twins-at-trade-deadline/

     

     

    Were they special clothes for performing an "(expletive)" task? Or clothes he really doesn't like? Maybe he doesn't like any clothes -- maybe he should come off the IL and try pitching shirtless. :)

    I typically perform (expletive) duties without clothes. But that’s me.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I considered that as last- minute ... maybe not as last-minute as Dyson, but it's last-minute when the need for BP arms wasn't addressed in the off-season, imo. We all knew it was a weakness going into ST. But then, maybe we were counting on some things to happen that didn't. Still ... it was not only a weakness, it was a glaring weakness. Addressing it in late July, when 2 minutes before the deadline or 2 days before ... is last-minute shopping when we knew it needed to happen back in November.

     

    All 'imo', of course. But that's how I feel about it.

    But most of the big name relievers signed in the offseason haven't been good.

    So they still would have needed help at the deadline.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Encarnacion was a salary dump.

    Nevertheless, New York knew they wanted him and they got him. Now he doesn't play for another team that can hurt them.

     

    Nobody is trading an impact pitcher in April or May.

    Perhaps. But others have noted there was also the off season, and nobody was blind to shortcomings in the roster. In any case, Stroman came much cheaper because the Mets grabbed him before any other major pitching trades, and that action changed the market behavior of other buyers and sellers.

    The Yankees got him because their ownership will allow them to grab mediocre salary dumps.

    A player like Encarnacion is available that far in advance only because he's a salary dump.

     

    Name the relief pitchers you asked for in the offseason, odds are they haven't been good.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    But most of the big name relievers signed in the offseason haven't been good.
    So they still would have needed help at the deadline.

    That may be how it worked out this time, but I would have been a lot less forgiving of doing last-minute shopping in that case.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    That may be how it worked out this time, but I would have been a lot less forgiving of doing last-minute shopping in that case.

    Ok, let's play this out to it's possible conclusion.

     

    If they'd signed two guys in the offseason that ended up being terrible, then stood pat at the deadline, with the given explanation being, "we did our shopping in the offseason, we don't do last minute shopping", you're reaction would be?

     

    If we want to critique their offseason moves, that's of course fair. But, it's independent of their moves at the deadline. Moves in the offseason are no guarantee that further moves won't be required at the deadline.

     

    Decision making is a moving target. Let's judge their deadline moves with the information and the resources they had at the deadline, not the ones they had 8 months ago.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Maybe there was nothing to see. These were literally the last four appearances before they traded for him so, again, the heightened relevance seems self-evident to me. I didn't "cherry-pick" four appearances from mid-May.

     

    The swinging strikes are a piece of the puzzle that caught my attention — granted, with the benefit of hindsight, having watched him get shelled while fooling nobody in his first two appearances for MN.

     

    What we know (now) is that Dyson was pitching through an arm issue, which worsened as soon as he got here leading to an implosion and a very poorly timed IL stint. Were there indicators in his recent performance that could've been seen? Reduced movement on his pitches? Small lapses in command? I don't know, but then again I don't have the full resources of a sophisticated analytical operation.

     

    I think it's quite a stretch to equate me saying I find it hard to let Falvey & Levine "off the hook entirely" with saying they "didn't do their jobs." Anyone who reads my writing here regularly knows I have an extremely favorable view of this front office, which is why the whole situation hits me in such a weird way. I thought it was made clear I hold Dyson most accountable. 

     

    Again, he threw 42 pitches over 4 appearances where his velo was fine, and his performance was dominant. There was nothing to see there, but the insinuation in the article I had an issue with was that this was some glaring issue. "He's broken, he was starting to break before he got here" "One of the clearest indicators something is wrong" "stop missing bats in such a stark fashion". 

     

    This wasn't a large handful of 20+ pitch outings where he struggled to put guys away or get guys out. Nothing of the sorts. He threw extremely efficient innings 4 straight outings. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Ok, let's play this out to it's possible conclusion.

    If they'd signed two guys in the offseason that ended up being terrible, then stood pat at the deadline, with the given explanation being, "we did our shopping in the offseason, we don't do last minute shopping", you're reaction would be?

    If we want to critique their offseason moves, that's of course fair. But, it's independent of their moves at the deadline. Moves in the offseason are no guarantee that further moves won't be required at the deadline.

    Decision making is a moving target. Let's judge their deadline moves with the information and the resources they had at the deadline, not the ones they had 8 months ago.

    I can't answer that because it's not what happened. You are asking me to play an ''iffing and hindsighting' game. But okay ... let's do that ... if the FO had addressed their weakness in the offseason, the best pitchers available then would be doing better on our team because our pitching coaches would have done better with them and our offense would have backed them up, so we wouldn't have had to do last-minute shopping now. See how that works?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I can't answer that because it's not what happened. You are asking me to play an ''iffing and hindsighting' game. But okay ... let's do that ... if the FO had addressed their weakness in the offseason, the best pitchers available then would be doing better on our team because our pitching coaches would have done better with them and our offense would have backed them up, so we wouldn't have had to do last-minute shopping now. See how that works?

    Wait, didn't this start with you and Chief playing the "if" and "hindsight" game? (If they'd signed free agents in the offseason, and if they'd worked out.)

    Edited by Mr. Brooks
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    He says it began the 2nd series after the break, he allowed 2 hits in 7 shutout innings in that time before the trade. I can see where he would think he could continue to pitch through it. I bet he wasn't wincing after each pitch, I don't think its uncommon for pitchers to pitch through a little soreness throughout the season.

     

    He should have told someone earlier (especially as he is going thru our medical exams to trade for him!) but its likely he didn't view this at the time as "I'm injured" more of I'm a little sore but still capable of pitching.

     

    At least he did mention it instead of insisting that he was fine. I would have been mad if he pulled a Brian Dozier on us when he declared after the season that his knee was bothering him for the entire season.

     

    This is exactly what has been reported. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Hopefully they don’t compound the problem by taking him to arbitration and then dealing with his decline and likely injuries next year.

     

    They need to seek a better solution and I fear they won’t if they go the arbitration with him.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    In discussing Dyson's stats this year, and particularly with the Twins, the sample is really small. I presume that by July just about every pitcher's arm hurts after an outing. The key is knowing if you can work through it or you need time off or treatment. It wouldn't surprise me if Dyson has experienced arm and shoulder pain before but got through it. 

     

    I don't condemn the Twins for making a trade on the deadline, a large majority of deals were done in just that way. 

     

    Finally, if Dyson returns healthy and effective, his two outings and stint on the Injured List will be a footnote. If he either doesn't get healthy or continues to struggle, that will be another story.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    I don’t think that’s the right lesson, or rather not specific enough. I’d say the lesson is, don’t wait until the trade deadline to actually build a bullpen, but rather use it to add that one special piece.

    Let me toss this out there: The FO knew they needed to find some help for the bullpen, but, due to the lack of success of the team in prior years, coupled with a new FO, it was difficult to attract premium arms. As an example, look how the FO put together the starting rotation this year, with Pineda and Perez. 

     

    The team turned out to be very successful and did a lot more than just take a step forward, it took a leap forward. The FO made a couple of good deals to get what they thought would be good solid additions to the bullpen.

     

    So far, Romo looks really good, but, unfortunately, Dyson looks equally bad.

     

    This is an atypical team in a very atypical year.

     

    It will be interesting to see how things play out.

     

    It's been a fun season and a wild ride, none of which was expected, by anyone, this year.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Are we really suggesting that he didn't know he was injured, despite struggling to put his (expletive) clothes on?

    That's not normal soreness.

    For an MLB pitcher, do we really know? He didn't say he struggled to put his clothes on, like he couldn't do it, just that he felt it while doing so. I imagine that, for a professional pitcher, the morning after pitching, stretching the pitching arm to put on a shirt might feel a little different than a normal day for you or me.

     

    I'd say I would trust his judgment, but athletes aren't unbiased. They are human and may not be able to subjectively gauge the effects of different things on their performance, whether it be injuries or centerfield trees. :)

    Edited by spycake
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    For an MLB pitcher, do we really know? He didn't say he struggled to put his clothes on, like he couldn't do it, just that he felt it while doing so. I imagine that, for a professional pitcher, the morning after pitching, stretching the pitching arm to put on a shirt might feel a little different than a normal day for you or me.

     

    I'd say I would trust his judgment, but athletes aren't unbiased. They are human and may not be able to subjectively gauge the effects of different things on their performance, whether it be injuries or centerfield trees. :)

    If it was the normal soreness that he typically feels the day after pitching, it wouldn't have been noteworthy enough in his mind to bring it up in the context that he mentioned it.

     

    He was able to pinpoint the exact series when it began to feel different.

    By definition, if it felt different, then it wasn't just normal soreness.

    Edited by Mr. Brooks
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Ok, let's play this out to it's possible conclusion.

    If they'd signed two guys in the offseason that ended up being terrible, then stood pat at the deadline, with the given explanation being, "we did our shopping in the offseason, we don't do last minute shopping", you're reaction would be?

    If we want to critique their offseason moves, that's of course fair. But, it's independent of their moves at the deadline. Moves in the offseason are no guarantee that further moves won't be required at the deadline.

    Decision making is a moving target. Let's judge their deadline moves with the information and the resources they had at the deadline, not the ones they had 8 months ago.

    How about I just judge ALL of their decisions and just say they should be escorted back to the airport and sent back to Cleveland and Dallas respectively.
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

    Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...