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  • Diving Into The Offseason: A Dozier Extension?


    Seth Stohs

    A year ago, the Twins were coming off of a 103-loss season, and all of the talk was about whether or not Brian Dozier would be traded for prospects. A deal was not able to be worked out, and Dozier remained with the Twins.

    Things have changed after a 2017 season that saw the Twins win 85 games and make the playoffs for the first time in seven years. With Derek Falvey and Thad Levine preaching long-term, sustainable, championship caliber team as the goal, what will they attempt to do with Brian Dozier this offseason?

    To trade, or to sign to a long-term contract? That is the question.

    Image courtesy of Jesse Johnson, USA Today

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    Yesterday, Brian Dozier was named the 2017 Twins MVP for the third straight year. He’s coming off of another big season.

    With the team’s success in 2017, the idea of trading Brian Dozier would not go over well with the fan base. That, however, is not the ultimate concern for the front office, though it certain will be a factor. However, when the Twins were unable to acquire a sufficient package for Dozier after his 42 home run season, with two more years left on his contract, it’s hard to believe they would get a better offer for one season of Dozier.

    If that is the case, then the discussion has to turn to whether or not they should consider attempt to sign him to another long-term contract or let him become a free agent at the end of the 2018 season. Dozier, who turned 30 in May, has averaged 4.5 bWAR and 4.25 fWAR over his five full big league seasons. Over the last two seasons, he’s been worth approximately 5.5 WAR.

    In my opinion, an attempt should be made, or at least a conversation should be held regarding an extension for Brian Dozier. So, I thought I’d consider what a long-term extension for Brian Dozier might look like. To do so, I had to look at some of the great second basemen in baseball that have signed in the recent past.

    Jose Altuve - The Astros wisely locked in Altuve before the 2014 season. He signed a four year, $12.5 million contract with two option seasons. Assuming the Astros don’t tear up that deal, his option seasons of $6 million and $6.5 million for 2018 and 2019 will be picked up. There is nothing in that deal to compare to Dozier.

    A quick look and we’ll see that the four year, $20 million deal gave him deals that lined up nearly identically with the contracts signed at that same time in the careers of Dustin Pedroia, Jason Kipnis, Ian Kinsler and Robinson Cano.

    Starting in 2015, Dozier’s annual salaries have been or will be $2 million, $3 million, $6 million and $9 million.

    • Dustin Pedroia got $1.5 million in 2009, followed by salaries of $3.5 million, $5.5 million, $8 million and then $10 million.
    • Jason Kipnis’s deal started in 2014 and provided salaries of $2 million, $4 million, $6 million and $9 million.
    • Ian Kinslers deal, starting in 2009, gave him salaries of $3 million, $4 million, $6 million and $7 million.
    • Robinson Cano’s deal started in 2008, and he got $3 million, $6 million, $9 million and $10 million (though it started a year later). He also had $14 million and $15 million options picked up in 2012 and 2013.
    • Rougned Odor signed a deal that started in 2017 in which he got $1 million, $3 million, $7.5 million, $9 million, $12 million, $12 million and an option for $13.5 million in 2023.

    Of course, in 2023, Odor will be 29 years old. Of this group, Dozier was the eldest as far as when he made the deal. That has to be factored in, but more into the length of the contract, not so much the dollars.

    Understanding that Dozier’s deal lined up so closely with so many quality second baseman, it is clear that the next step for us is to look at what type of contract each of those players got following their initial deal. How much did their post-free agent-eligible years cost. Here’s the quick rundown.

    • Dustin Pedroia - The Red Sox second baseman jumped to $12.5 million in 2014, and then was paid $12.5 million, $13.0 million and $15.0 million in the three years since. He still has four years remaining on his contract with salaries of $16 million, $15 million, $13 million and $12 million in 2021 (age 37).
    • Jason Kipnis - Cleveland paid Kipnis $9 million in 2017. He will make $13.5 million in 2018, $14.5 million in 2019 and he has an option for $16.5 million in 2020 (age 33 season) with a $2.5 million buyout.
    • Ian Kinsler - The Tigers second baseman signed his deal back in 2013 while with the Rangers. He made $13 million in 2013, $16 million in 2014 and 2015, $14 million in 2016 and $11 million in 2017. He has a $10 million option for 2018, his age 36 season, with a $5 million buyout. (It was also a vesting option and because he got over 600 plate appearances in 2017, it was picked up.)
    • Robinson Cano had his options for 2014 and 2015 picked up for a combined $29 million. Of course, he then became a 30-year-old free agent and signed a 10-year, $240 million deal with the Mariners.

    So, what does all that mean for Brian Dozier? Well, it gives us some parameters for an extension. Those All Stars or former All Stars signed similar contracts as when Dozier signed his, and they have signed for several years after when that contract ran out. We have to account for baseball salaries continuing to rise since those deals as well as Dozier’s age as he enters the extension.

    Brian Dozier is set to make $9 million in 2018. Using those other contracts as a baseline, here is what I would think a potentially realistic extension for Dozier could look like:

    2015 - $2 million

    2016 - $3 million

    2017 - $6 million

    ---------------------------------------

    2018 - $9 million (unchanged)

    ---------------------------------------

    Signing bonus - $3.5 million (paid in 2018)

    2019 - Age 32 - $14.0 million

    2020 - Age 33 - $14.5 million

    2021 - Age 34 - $15.0 million

    2022 - Age 35 - $14.0 million

    2023 - Age 36 - $12.0 million (option with a $4 million buyout, which would vest with 600 PA in 2022.)

    ---------------------------------------

    If that is the deal, we are looking at a 4 year, $65 million with an option that could make it a five year, $73 million deal.

    2024 would be Dozier’s Age 37 season, so it is likely that Derek Falvey and Thad Levine would prefer a contract extension be more in the three or four year range, maybe even if that means a higher annual salary. They could get creative and put a couple of options on the end of it. They may want to give Jorge Polanco and Nick Gordon another year to develop to see what a lineup without Brian Dozier in it looks like for 2019. Also, understanding that they may need to sign some long-term deals in the not-too-distant future with some of the youngsters, they may be more willing to frontload a contract.

    Dozier is one year from free agency. If he gets there, and stays healthy, there should be a good market for him. Maybe that would allow him to make a little bit more. At the same time, as a free agent entering his age-32 season, he may not receive more than four year contract offers… or he could get six years.

    With all of that at your fingertips, what would you do as it relates to Brian Dozier? Still look to trade him? Let 2018 play out. He’ll become a free agent, and take your chances then. Or, should they spend the offseason discussing a long-term extension to keep him as a leader of the Twins for the foreseeable future?

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    COMING SOON! A reminder, Nick Nelson is leading the way in the final steps of creating the Twins Daily Annual Offseason Handbook. Keep checking back next week for many more details. As we have in the past, we'll take a look at what options the Twins may have during the upcoming offseason. Trade Targets. Free Agents. Exclusive articles from the Twins Daily owners only available in the electronic book. Definitely something Twins fans will want at their fingertips.

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    I am not saying we can't sign him, i would rather spend the money on front line pitching. Good pitching wins most of the time.  Signing him and getting the core into long term contracts is sending down the path of the 90's Twins or the mid 80's Twins or mid 70's Twins.  Very good hit, very no pitch.

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    Let's see how the second basemen for NYY, LAD and CHC do in the playoffs. If one or more play poorly, there may be a veritable hue and cry for an update that just MAYBE increases Dozier's value.

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    Let's see how the second basemen for NYY, LAD and CHC do in the playoffs. If one or more play poorly, there may be a veritable hue and cry for an update that just MAYBE increases Dozier's value.

     

    LAD could use a second baseman upgrade in the near future. Forsythe was horrible and Uttley will be retiring.   The Cubs have Baez and the Yankees Castro, so it is unlikely that there will be interest there.  The Mets and Diamondbacks need second basemen, as far as contenders go.   So 3 pretty good openings there.

     

     

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    Seth, I would do the contract you laid out. He's a different player than Kinsler - less defense and average, more power - but Kinsler just had 2.5 WAR at age 35 after three much better years, which means that his contract is a good deal for the team. Actually, for your dollars, four years of 2.5 WAR would be good for the Twins.

     

    If Gordon and Polanco look like they, in combination with Dozier, make up three major leaguers for two positions, that can be dealt with then. One could be traded or Dozier could become a primary DH. That's a much better set of problems than worrying about whether Gordon is ready or letting Dozier go for a third round draft pick.

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    LAD could use a second baseman upgrade in the near future. Forsythe was horrible and Uttley will be retiring.   The Cubs have Baez and the Yankees Castro, so it is unlikely that there will be interest there.  The Mets and Diamondbacks need second basemen, as far as contenders go.   So 3 pretty good openings there.

    I'd add the Angels to your list.

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    Extending a player doesn't mean you can't still trade them after.  The guy hasn't been banged up too much by injuries either, so he should age better than many.  I say go for it.

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    Like it or not, the Twins operate under a self imposed salary cap.
    This club needs pitching, and pitching is expensive.
    It's hard to imagine a scenario where this extension doesn't interfere with purchasing pitching.

    It's not as black and white as simply wanting him to stay or not.

     

    Non-profit organizations aside, EVERY business has a salary cap.  Detroit operated for a handful of years with little regard for the bottom line.  Every other pro sports franchise operates within a budget.  The position the Twins are somehow different is an exceptionally simplistic view of the world.

     

    I have posted Forbes annual recaps here more than once it is was really quite clear the Twins spending policies were in line with the rest of MLB .  There is an awful lot of completely unsubstantiated rhetoric around this position.  I sure would like to see someone support this position with some form of documentation for once.

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    Non-profit organizations aside, EVERY business has a salary cap. Detroit operated for a handful of years with little regard for the bottom line. Every other pro sports franchise operates within a budget. The position the Twins are somehow different is an exceptionally simplistic view of the world.

     

    I have posted Forbes annual recaps here more than once it is was really quite clear the Twins spending policies were in line with the rest of MLB . There is an awful lot of completely unsubstantiated rhetoric around this position. I sure would like to see someone support this position with some form of documentation for once.

    It's a dumb complaint, but also misguided. The way it gets presented in the local media really takes the heat off how mediocre (or worse) a gm both Smith and Ryan were. It's a simple complaint with an easy villain.

     

    If we just got a new owner, <shakes fist>, we would finally have a payroll...that is pretty much exactly the same.

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    It's a dumb complaint, but also misguided. The way it gets presented in the local media really takes the heat off how mediocre (or worse) a gm both Smith and Ryan were. It's a simple complaint with an easy villain.

    If we just got a new owner, <shakes fist>, we would finally have a payroll...that is pretty much exactly the same.

    Do you believe the Twins, over history, have been aggressive with payroll? Or cautious to the point of favoring money over success?

     

    It's not a dumb complaint depending on your answer to the above.

     

    It's hard to know exact figures, but I know this...the team was purchased for $44M and is now worth something approaching 20 times that amount.

     

    SOMEbody thinks the Twins are printing money.

     

    I'd also like to know why the Twins needed ~$70M to pay for everything over and above major league payroll in the dome, but immediately needed ~$110M the day they moved into TF. Nobody has ever offered an explanation that doesn't include "they're not actually putting a penny of their own money into TF."

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    In 2015, the Twins were tied for 11th in % of revenue put into player salary, putting 49% of revenue back into player salary. 

     

    http://i.imgur.com/yPYrkOg.jpg

     

    We're usually around that. In the dome, at times, we got quite a bit higher.

     

    Salaries for players past their initial controllable years are well past the point of getting ridiculous though.

    Edited by jimmer
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    Do you believe the Twins, over history, have been aggressive with payroll? Or cautious to the point of favoring money over success?

     

    It's not a dumb complaint depending on your answer to the above.

     

    It's hard to know exact figures, but I know this...the team was purchased for $44M and is now worth something approaching 20 times that amount.

     

    SOMEbody thinks the Twins are printing money.

     

    I'd also like to know why the Twins needed ~$70M to pay for everything over and above major league payroll in the dome, but immediately needed ~$110M the day they moved into TF. Nobody has ever offered an explanation that doesn't include "they're not actually putting a penny of their own money into TF."

    I think they have been pretty much exactly like the majority of mlb teams. All available evidence points to this.

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    For the other questions, this has been discussed, but they now pay all operating expenses and upgrades at Target Field, and they have upgraded facilities in Florida and DR and elsewhere. And expenses always go up through simple inflation.

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    For the other questions, this has been discussed, but they now pay all operating expenses and upgrades at Target Field, and they have upgraded facilities in Florida and DR and elsewhere. And expenses always go up through simple inflation.

    They also now get all advertising and suite revenue, which they didn't get in the dome. Seems like, at worse, a wash.

     

    The Florida facilities upgrade cost the Twins $13.8m (part of which is increased rent payments). http://m.mlb.com/news/article/40185098//

     

    The Dominican upgrade cost them $9m. https://puckettspond.com/2017/01/20/minnesota-twins-open-baseball-academy-dominican-republic/

     

    Try again.

     

    With that, I'm going to suggest we take this elsewhere.

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    Another thing to remember about a Dozier extension, Pohlad still loves Joe Mauer, like it or not (I like it), and another contract for him may signify an end to Dozier's time in MN. The 1B market that year is weak and I don't think the Twins want to move Sano (just my thoughts, I have no idea) unless Mauer leaves or retires.

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    Another thing to remember about a Dozier extension, Pohlad still loves Joe Mauer, like it or not (I like it), and another contract for him may signify an end to Dozier's time in MN. The 1B market that year is weak and I don't think the Twins want to move Sano (just my thoughts, I have no idea) unless Mauer leaves or retires.

    I hope Mauer gets another contract.  His defense and his OBP are valuable.    Obviously he'd need to take a decent pay cut, butt he still has good value.

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    They also now get all advertising and suite revenue, which they didn't get in the dome. Seems like, at worse, a wash.

     

    The Florida facilities upgrade cost the Twins $13.8m (part of which is increased rent payments). http://m.mlb.com/news/article/40185098//

     

    The Dominican upgrade cost them $9m. https://puckettspond.com/2017/01/20/minnesota-twins-open-baseball-academy-dominican-republic/

     

    Try again.

     

    With that, I'm going to suggest we take this elsewhere.

    I appreciate digging into the specific numbers, but before I become think more negatively about payroll spending, I would like to see at least some evidence that the Twins operate in a manner different from the vast majority of teams in the league, either in revenue/payroll split or in a failure to fully reinvest franchise value appreciation. I'm highly, highly, highly skeptical that can be shown. I would guess the typical franchise is even *worse*.

     

    If ownership allocates an appropriate amount of resources (based on revenue level), which by all available evidence they do, I put the onus on the front office to win.

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    Another thing to remember about a Dozier extension, Pohlad still loves Joe Mauer, like it or not (I like it), and another contract for him may signify an end to Dozier's time in MN. The 1B market that year is weak and I don't think the Twins want to move Sano (just my thoughts, I have no idea) unless Mauer leaves or retires.

    There is enough to go around, assuming the Mauer contract is reasonable.

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    It is funny to me that so often we hear about how people think that because the Twins got a new stadium that they would be able to keep their stars. Brian Dozier is a star, and yet of the first six comments, five of them say to just let him go elsewhere.

     

    And while I understand the thinking for any player over 32, and I get that Polanco can move to 2B and Nick Gordon could be ready for SS in 2019... I wonder if people realize just how good Dozier has been. Even if he takes one WAR off over the next couple of years, there's value in having him the next couple of years.

     

    I would LOVE to see them sign him to just a two-year extension, but there's no reason for him to do that. Are you going to get 4 WAR out of Polanco or Gordon in 2019 and 2020? Will you get that between the two of them? I don't know...

     

    I'm not saying that the answer 100% is to sign him to an extension... but I don't think the answer can be not to just because he is going to be 32 (or 35 at the end).

    the problem with the first deal is it didn’t buy his first year or two of free agency.

     

    Now, he’s already declining defensively. Extending him 3-4 years makes no sense. 1-2 years extension makes perfect sense, but is entirely unrealistic. Brian Dozier wants and rightfully deserves a long term payday.

     

    With the needs at pitcher and the likelihood of the contract becoming painful before the Twins truly contend, I can see why the FO would pass.

     

    Not that I want to see him leave after 2018, I want to see him leave after 2019 or 2020.

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    Give him what he wants. Most productive hitter in the lineup the last 2 years. Need to keep a leader and veteran in the dugout for all of the youngsters they have now. If Mauer is worth $23M Dozier is worth just as much or more.

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    Non-profit organizations aside, EVERY business has a salary cap. Detroit operated for a handful of years with little regard for the bottom line. Every other pro sports franchise operates within a budget. The position the Twins are somehow different is an exceptionally simplistic view of the world.

     

    I have posted Forbes annual recaps here more than once it is was really quite clear the Twins spending policies were in line with the rest of MLB . There is an awful lot of completely unsubstantiated rhetoric around this position. I sure would like to see someone support this position with some form of documentation for once.

    Where did I claim, or even imply that the Twins operate differently?

     

    I dont think they can afford pitching AND the example Dozier extension, that's all.

     

    I prefaced it because otherwise someone would have eventually responded, "no salary cap in baseball", not because I was ripping the teams spending.

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