Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account
  • Buyer Beware: Avoiding a Chris Archer Trade


    Cody Christie

    Amid one of the toughest parts of their schedule, Minnesota fans are clamoring for the Twins to make a trade. With just over a week until the deadline, the hot stove has been less than lukewarm. The Twins have cleared out multiple 40-man roster spots over the last month, but it remains to be seen as to what the club is going to do with all of these openings.

    It’s important to remember not to make any impulse deals when it comes to trading away top prospects. Last July, the Pittsburgh Pirates made a deal that looks very lopsided in hindsight. How can the Twins avoid a similar fate?

    Image courtesy of © Mark J. Rebilas-USA TODAY Sports

    Twins Video

    Pittsburgh sat with a 56-52 record on July 31, 2018. This was good enough for third in their division and they were trailing multiple teams for a Wild Card spot. Being on the outside looking in, didn’t stop them from making a franchise altering trade. The Pirates wanted right-handed pitcher Chris Archer, so they went and got him. Spoiler alert… Pittsburgh would finish fourth in their own division last season.

    During his last three seasons in Tampa, Archer posted a 3.77 ERA and a 1.21 WHIP while averaging 245 strikeouts and 205 innings per season. He had one top-5 finish for the AL Cy Young and he represented the Rays in the 2015 and 2017 MLB All-Star Game. He was a workhorse as he led the AL in games started in both of his All-Star campaigns.

    Archer had seemed to be on the trade block for multiple seasons because Tampa Bay had him signed to a team friendly deal and the two-time All-Star might not have a higher value. Because of their market, the Rays are forced to part with players as their contract costs rise. Tampa has been able to flourish through strong scouting and thinking outside of the box.

    Tampa certainly knew what they were doing when they dealt Archer for a package that included Austin Meadows, Tyler Glasnow and Shane Baz. Meadows was elected to his first All-Star Game this season after hitting .289/.364/.502 in the first half with 30 extra-base hits including 12 homers. He currently looks like the biggest piece of the trade for Tampa, but both pitchers could still turn out to be very good.

    Glasnow has an injury history including currently being on the IL with a right forearm strain. In his eight starts (48 1/3 innings) since being dealt, he has a 1.86 ERA with a 0.91 WHIP and 55 strikeouts and 9 walks. Fans might remember Baz’s name because he was one of the top prospects in the 2017 Draft, when the Twins had the first pick. He’s pitching in the Midwest League and has a 3.45 ERA and a 1.23 WHIP in 10 starts.

    Since being traded, Archer has not been the same pitcher that he was in Tampa. He has a brutal 4.97 ERA and a 1.39 WHIP in 143 innings. His strikeout rate has gone up from 9.7 K/9 in Tampa to 10.4 K/9 in Pittsburgh, but his walk rate has also increased (2.9 to 4.0 BB/9). He’s giving up home runs at almost twice the rate and one of the biggest concerns might be the amount of hard contact he is giving up. His 12.3 Barrel % is in the bottom 4% of the NL.

    So how can the Twins avoid an Archer style fleecing by another club?

    In all reality, it’s rarely known this quickly after a trade if one team has gained a significant advantage. Meadows was a consensus top-50 prospect for most of his professional career. In comparison, Minnesota’s closest prospect might be Alex Kirilloff. It seems likely that Kirilloff is on a short list of prospects that Minnesota wouldn’t be willing to trade unless they were floored by a deal.

    The Twins might not have a comparable pitcher in their farm system to Glasnow. Entering the 2017 season, he was ranked in the top-25 prospects in baseball by all three major rankings and he was big league ready at the time of the trade. Someone like Jordan Balazovic might be the closest as he continues to rise in prospect rankings. He, like Glasnow, was a fifth-round pick, but he isn’t close to being big league ready.

    Few saw this kind of drop-off coming for Archer and that’s what can happen with some of the big deals that will happen before next week. Back in 2016, Cubs fans saw their club deal future All-Star Gleyber Torres to the Yankees for closer Aroldis Chapman. Chapman and the Cubs went on to win the World Series and he returned to New York that winter as a free agent.

    My guess is Cubs fans will take the World Series flag flying over Wrigley instead of having Torres in the middle of their infield.

    What are your thoughts as the Twins become buyers? How can they avoid an Archer deal? Leave a COMMENT and start the discussion.

    MORE FROM TWINS DAILY
    — Latest Twins coverage from our writers
    — Recent Twins discussion in our forums
    — Follow Twins Daily via Twitter, Facebook or email
    — Become a Twins Daily Caretaker

     Share


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Featured Comments

     

    Per Baseball Reference Realmuto WAR 2.5, Garver 3.0, Castro .6, Astudillo -.1

    My math says Realmuto and Garver better than Garver, Castro and Turtle

     

     

    Castro is also outplaying Realmuto by a considerable margin.

     

    Hmmmmm. And Castro couldn't even catch easy pitches the other day against Oakland, and he is supposed to be a glove guy. I don't know if WAR is the final authority, or if the above is correct as I am using a third party's homework, but I am not of the opinion that Castro is outplaying Realmuto.... by even a slight margin. Infact, it looks like Realmuto is outplaying Castro by the considerable margin.

     

    Edited by h2oface
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    It's shaping up to be a really bad trade deadline for buying teams. The starting pitching market is extremely bare. There will be like a dozen teams fighting for the available relievers. Expect to get fleeced on a Stroman deal. Not that he will be anywhere near as awful as Archer but you will give up the farm to get what is essentially an effective groundball/pitch to contact guy (not a true ace).

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    It's shaping up to be a really bad trade deadline for buying teams. The starting pitching market is extremely bare. There will be like a dozen teams fighting for the available relievers. Expect to get fleeced on a Stroman deal. Not that he will be anywhere near as awful as Archer but you will give up the farm to get what is essentially an effective groundball/pitch to contact guy (not a true ace).

    I agree more with the first half of your comment. I’m sure there are pitchers out there this deadline with unseen value, beyond the big names. But even those might cost more than a lot of posters here are comfortable.
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Hmmmmm. And Castro couldn't even catch easy pitches the other day against Oakland, and he is supposed to be a glove guy. I don't know if WAR is the final authority, or if the above is correct as I am using a third party's homework, but I am not of the opinion that Castro is outplaying Realmuto.... by even a slight margin. Infact, it looks like Realmuto is outplaying Castro by the considerable margin.

    B-Ref catcher WAR is close to useless.

     

    FanGraphs tries to incorporate the unique nature of catchers into WAR and Castro has slightly more than half the WAR of Realmuto in less than half as many plate appearances (ie. Castro is slightly outplaying him, albeit much closer than I expected).

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    None of that has played out yet, and it's tough to argue the Twins would be worse off with Realmuto.

     

     

     

    Realmuto has been out performed this season by Garver, Castro, and Cron. We'd be worse off offensively with him this season (though probably a bit better defensively), and there's zero question about that... and I say that as a guy that wanted him. If he's here, Garver is probably spending a lot of time in AAA, except when Cron is on the DL. 

     

    Right now, I have to conclude that NOT making that trade was the right thing... It may change next season when Castro is gone and Garver hits the DL for a lengthy period of time... but right now, this team would probably have a couple more losses of Realmuto was our starting catcher. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Realmuto has been out performed this season by Garver, Castro, and Cron. We'd be worse off offensively with him this season (though probably a bit better defensively), and there's zero question about that... and I say that as a guy that wanted him. If he's here, Garver is probably spending a lot of time in AAA, except when Cron is on the DL. 

     

    Right now, I have to conclude that NOT making that trade was the right thing... It may change next season when Castro is gone and Garver hits the DL for a lengthy period of time... but right now, this team would probably have a couple more losses of Realmuto was our starting catcher. 

     

    The Phillies gave the Marlins a major league catcher in that trade as well. It's reasonable to assume along with Lewis or Kiriloff, that Garver would've needed to be included in that trade. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

    Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...