Brewers 7, Twins 6: Poor Pitching Dooms Twins to Drop Series Opener

Song for Sano on his return.

He has been away, and I know it is still "early",

but I saw him on the dance floor and nothin' had changed.

Another winnable game that slipped away ....

Everyone knows our bullpen is bad  ,,,

Use the 2 best bullpen arms late in the game  ( jax and Duran  ) , jax goes out and usually pitches good right after the starter departs ...

Doesn't Rocco have any trust in jax to pitch in pressure situation  ....

Duffey in the ninth  must of been  the plan  ,,,, I don't ever trust him , even in his good years  ...

The BP is need of improvement, but I don't think Rogers staying would have changed much. In his last 21 games (starting with his 2nd BS of the year on 5/28) he is 0-4, has blown 4 saves (11/15), and his ERA is 7.52. 

That was kind of a tough angle to throw from, and it would have to be a perfect throw to get the runner at home anyway, but that throw by Kirilloff was just sad. Maybe he thought he was bowling.

Twins starter stumbles, the offense make a dramatic and inspiring comeback, bullpen immediately gives momentum away and the Twins lose late.

The W-L record in games when the Twins hit a go-ahead HR in the 5th inning or later is probably something like 2-8. It's unbelievable.

This team is still limping along. Go get 'em today, I guess.

Doing the same, expecting different results...

Bundy = Shoemaker

Just sad.

I understand the frustration with the bullpen, but I don't think it's fair to blame them for this game.

It certainly wasn't great, but 2 ER in 5 IP against a decent Milwaukee lineup is par for the course.

Another sloppy Twins game.  I didn't see in your article that after Garlick was gifted on a poor defensive play by Brewers to get him to second did you mention his base running good.  He got doubled off second on a good outfield catch.  He had a runner in front of him who rightfully wasn't running waiting to see if the catch was made.  Garlick, like usual, played it poorly and took us out of a potential good inning.  It doesn't help when your own pitching staff continues to demonstrate how poor it is.  How has Duran done the past several games?  He sure didn't pitch a clean inning yesterday and has struggled the past few outings. Yes even the good ones run into slumps.  Wednesday 4 innings Archer is pitching.  Look for bullpen overuse again and Twins struggling to score against a very good Brewer pitcher today.  Twins may be in first place but they sure aren't a first place team.  Way too many holes.  They are well below 500 the past 55 games.

I blame the BP and I blame the starter and I am amazed when Baldelli comes up with "We needed better at-bats late in the game to make something happen."  True, but they had hits, what they needed most was arms to shut down the Brewers.

Miranda deserves at bats no matter what.  Sano, one game back and nothing has changed.  Telling that he was 9th in lineup, mentally takes the pressure off of swinging in middle of the order but my goodness, they need him to do something to get value in next couple of days.  

Handful of pitchers that I don't trust at all, way too many pieces to fix at trade deadline.  They will limp along and miss the playoffs as I don't see 2 SP and 3-4 RP coming via trade to salvage a winnable division.

Front Office won't be all in for this year, so not much changes 6 days from now

When your starting pitchers rarely go longer than 4 innings and the bullpen rarely has anyone go longer than 1 inning, your bullpen will breakdown. The bullpen wasn't terrible in April and May but, the same guys sure are bad now. Rocco wore them out.

19 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

Another sloppy Twins game.  I didn't see in your article that after Garlick was gifted on a poor defensive play by Brewers to get him to second did you mention his base running good.  He got doubled off second on a good outfield catch.  He had a runner in front of him who rightfully wasn't running waiting to see if the catch was made.  Garlick, like usual, played it poorly and took us out of a potential good inning.  It doesn't help when your own pitching staff continues to demonstrate how poor it is.  How has Duran done the past several games?  He sure didn't pitch a clean inning yesterday and has struggled the past few outings. Yes even the good ones run into slumps.  Wednesday 4 innings Archer is pitching.  Look for bullpen overuse again and Twins struggling to score against a very good Brewer pitcher today.  Twins may be in first place but they sure aren't a first place team.  Way too many holes.  They are well below 500 the past 55 games.

Garlic ended any hope for a Twins' victory by getting doubled off 2B.  There were so many things wrong with his thinking, it is not worth getting into.  What a bonehead.

The most important addition is a starter to push Gray and Ryan down a slot. Five innings and two runs is a reasonable performance from a bullpen. I would take an ERA of 3.60 overall from the pen.

I don’t know how they can come up with the best offer for Castillo but it is essential. They also need to expect Ryan and Gray to go through the order a third time as well as Castillo. That will reduce the burden on the bullpen. Two arms are needed in the pen also but the top prospect capital has to go for Castillo. 

1 hour ago, Rik19753 said:

I understand the frustration with the bullpen, but I don't think it's fair to blame them for this game.

It certainly wasn't great, but 2 ER in 5 IP against a decent Milwaukee lineup is par for the course.

I agree the bullpen wasn't bad, but it wasn't 2 ER in 5, it was 2 in 4 2/3. You gave Duffey credit for an out he didn't get, and remember there were still two guys on so if it wasn't the 9th it could have been much worse.

1 hour ago, mikelink45 said:

I blame the BP and I blame the starter and I am amazed when Baldelli comes up with "We needed better at-bats late in the game to make something happen."  True, but they had hits, what they needed most was arms to shut down the Brewers.

Yea I was scratching my head on that one too. You score 6 runs and lose but he is talking about poor at bats. Maybe he doesn’t want to pile on his horse bleep pitching staff. 

45 minutes ago, Jamie Cameron said:

This is a more than fair point, so let me expand on what I mean a little more.

I think the biggest frustration at the moment, is the feeling of inevitability of what is going to happen after you have burned Jax and Duran. In this case, Jax was used in the seventh, Duran the eighth. I'm sure, in an ideal world, they would have loved to to use Duran again in the ninth, but he struggled (uncharacteristically).

It's more than fair to shift this blame/narrative to a failing of the front office, it just felt like, in the game, when Williams and Hader were staggered in the 8th and 9th, compared to Jax and Duran in the 7th and 8th, it was advantage Brewers.

The Twins have plenty of OK-ish MLB relievers, but realistically, they need two more guys who can perform in high leverage. Pagan, Duffey, Cotton, Smith - have all shown that they are categorically not those guys, but because there are only two (maybe three with Thielbar) really reliable relievers, they have to take turns in important innings, it usually goes poorly.

If the write up tonight was a little gloomy, it's just because I perceive the bullpen construction as such an abject failure by this front office. I think the Twins need two good relievers to have a good October bullpen. This is especially true when you think about how October games are won (short starts, lots of pitching changes and matchup coordination).

So back to the original point, absolutely fair, the pen was fine in this game, it just not constructed in a way that gives the Twins a shot at winning enough times when it comes down to our pen VS an opponents.

I appreciated the "gloomy" write up. We continue to lose winnable games because we can't hold leads. Rocco goes out of his way to never mention it. Must mean major change coming to the pen is my take.

All these posts about getting good relief pitchers from other teams.  Realistically, who will give up quality relief pitchers? We would give up way too much in trade to pick up an average relief man. Keep the team, play for next season(like was anticipated in spring). Bring up some minor league pitchers, get their feet wet.  Dump the dead weight in bullpen to the free agent list. Great core of young players reminds me of mid  80’s  

55 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I agree the bullpen wasn't bad, but it wasn't 2 ER in 5, it was 2 in 4 2/3. You gave Duffey credit for an out he didn't get, and remember there were still two guys on so if it wasn't the 9th it could have been much worse.

Agree. And let’s not forget the two walks. That’s inexcusable. But we shouldn’t let Duran off the hook either. He had a walk fest going in the 8th and came within a cross up of walking in the go ahead run (given how things are going, I’m surprised that pitch didn’t go the backstop lol). 

Really just more of the same mental mistakes that we’ve come to expect - yesterday it was relievers walking multiple batters late in the game and a base running error that likely cost us at least one crucial run. It’s like little league out there sometimes. But sadly getting to be so typical.

29 minutes ago, TruthInDuluth said:

All these posts about getting good relief pitchers from other teams.  Realistically, who will give up quality relief pitchers? We would give up way too much in trade to pick up an average relief man. Keep the team, play for next season(like was anticipated in spring). Bring up some minor league pitchers, get their feet wet.  Dump the dead weight in bullpen to the free agent list. Great core of young players reminds me of mid  80’s  

You mean before after they signed a SS to a 35 million dollar contract or traded a former first round pitcher for a guy with 2 years of control?

Which pitchers would you like brought up? Balazovic, Enlow, Henriquez, Sands, Smeltzer or Strotman, those are the only pitchers in the minors on the 40 man? Or are you talking about bringing up guys that need to be added to the 40 man?

One to argue this core isn't even as good as the core that was assembled in the late 2016 - 2021 and how did that work out?

This play for the next year attitude when you are in first and have been for months is perverted, hey lets give up on this year so we can play for the totally unknown next year, its sad.

i feel for the big guy but sano looked like sano. it's time to cut ties though what they'll get for him is a bag of balls at this point.

Too many holes in this years lineup to really compete in the playoffs 

look at our record vs yanks,astros,brewers

we need catcher, two starters, and 2 relief pitchers 

seriously think those holes can be fixed with trades? Who would bring that value? 

Walking guys late in the game is not good. Duffey looked so solid to his first hitter then he just lost it. 

Bundy is done. Flat out. I think he has worn out his welcome. He actually did a pretty good job making it this far into the season before turning into a pumpkin. 

Archer probably in for a similar fate today, I'm guessing he goes 4 at best. This kind of thing is just unsustainable all year when the bullpen you have is 2-3 deep of really solid guys. 

They need a starter and bullpen help. Even a starter that could slot in about #4 in our rotation paired with 2 solid relievers would help win the division.

11 minutes ago, TruthInDuluth said:

Too many holes in this years lineup to really compete in the playoffs 

look at our record vs yanks,astros,brewers

we need catcher, two starters, and 2 relief pitchers 

seriously think those holes can be fixed with trades? Who would bring that value? 

Lineup is fine IMO. Not perfect, but it is enough to compete with a competent pitching staff. Look at the runs scored vs those teams. Our lineup has put up a fair amount of runs against those same teams. We have given up a TON to them though, poor pitching.

1 hour ago, In My La Z boy said:

I appreciated the "gloomy" write up. We continue to lose winnable games because we can't hold leads. Rocco goes out of his way to never mention it. Must mean major change coming to the pen is my take.

Rocco never calls individuals out in the press. If Buxton strikes out 4 times and he is asked about it, Baldelli will say something like "yeah, tough day for a lot of bats out there today" and then add "defensively he had a great game", or something like that and switch the subject. He's never once called a guy out, if anything he'll publicly heap praise on guys who are clearly struggling.

To some it makes Rocco look clueless, but he's clearly just the type of manager who would never be critical of his own players to the press. I know the players like it, but as a fan it can be very frustrating.

10 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

I mean.....he isn't wrong.  After the Urshela HR in the 5th....they had 2 base runners for the rest of the game.  An infield hit and a walk.  6 runs is fantastic, but the offense did completely shut off for the other half of the game.

You are correct he isn't wrong per se. The offense blew up the starter and first relief pitcher which in theory sends the Brewers down the path of using their worst relief pitchers which might allow the offense to continue to pile on runs but to no available the Twins pitching staff said we will have none of that and gave up just as many runs as the offense scored and allowed to Brewers to bring in their shut down arms for the last three innings and Rocco blames the offense for that. It is ridiculous  to say because the pitching staff can't hold a team to less than 6 runs it is on the offense for not scoring of the back end of the Brewers pen.