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Reusse: Twins and timid intersect too often


Highabove

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A team in the rebuilding mode is always a pretty easy target. I question how many teams get more out of the International Market than the Twins. You certainly have to give Pat credit for playing for his crowd. He's the darling of the Strib comments section. On my other board we refer to the comments section as where intellect goes to die.

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Question it all you like. But how long will the Twins be able to take credit for the Sano signing? Pat was right. They do have money and they do have one of the largest pool amounts. Why not go large and get these two pitchers? They like Tseng according to all reports. So now is the time to outbid the Cubs. And Gonzales has no limit as to what can be offered. We all know how rare it is to get a shot at a number 1 starter. Commit 10 million a year 40 mill for 4 or more. That's what they spent on Correia and Pelfrey. They have the money. They HAVE to take a chance to get pitching.

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Question it all you like. But how long will the Twins be able to take credit for the Sano signing? Pat was right. They do have money and they do have one of the largest pool amounts. Why not go large and get these two pitchers? They like Tseng according to all reports. So now is the time to outbid the Cubs. And Gonzales has no limit as to what can be offered. We all know how rare it is to get a shot at a number 1 starter. Commit 10 million a year 40 mill for 4 or more. That's what they spent on Correia and Pelfrey. They have the money. They HAVE to take a chance to get pitching.
I would think it's customary to take credit for him at least as long as the national media is gushing over him. To take a shot at a proven number 1 starter is indeed rare. To take a shot at someone that is projected to be a number 1 starter, not nearly so. Very likely the Twins do not project him as highly as others. The recent draft clearly shows the Twins are taking chances to get pitching.

 

Edit: He was suspended in Cuba for attempting to escape. Hasn't officially pitched in 2 years, except for exhibitions in Mexico. Has had arm problems. Doesn't project as a 1 starter. Price is probably closer to 60M for 5 years, with an all out bidding war expected between the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Cubs. Pat probably felt the average Twins fan wouldn't be able to make the right determination with this type of detail.

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They have enough money left in the pool to get Tseng. Gonzalez doesn't count against the pool, but Reusse's 40M figure, from what I've heard, is low. It's going to be closer to 60M. I wouldn't mind the Twins going after Gonzalez than for no other reason that payroll is low this year and getting lower. I'm not sure I see the need for Alvarez.

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Edit: He was suspended in Cuba for attempting to escape. Hasn't officially pitched in 2 years, except for exhibitions in Mexico. Has had arm problems. Doesn't project as a 1 starter. Price is probably closer to 60M for 5 years, with an all out bidding war expected between the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Cubs. Pat probably felt the average Twins fan wouldn't be able to make the right determination with this type of detail.

 

It is possible for a criticism of the front office to have merit. Your zeal to defend against any and every criticism really strains credulity, especially when you don't provide a strong analysis for why. In this case, you criticize the player for wanting to escape a poverty riddled country for a new life and give a list of reasons against him that would qualify as potential negatives against roughly 95% of the pitchers on the planet (some arm problems, bidding wars for talent, maybe not be a true ace)

 

Here is a scouting report. Pat probably read up on the player and used the many sources in MLB that he has culled over decades of working with professional baseball to determine that this guy was a pretty interesting arm. He then probably (after defending the Twin's lack of spending in the offseason) figured that with their enormous payroll flexibility that this would be a perfect time to gamble on something they desperately need.

 

Makes a lot of sense to me. He may be wrong, but his article is spot on - if you do save this much money in normal free agency, it would behoove them to be aggressive with it when they can in international free agency.

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To Reusse's larger point, I think one of my biggest concerns with Ryan taking back the GM role was that Smith was brilliantly aggressive in the international market. He went after a lot of players that his scouts liked and it was instrumental in the organization's resurgence. In particular, his decision to go heavy on Miguel Sano made up for one of Ryan's most notable mistakes in his tenure (Cabrera).

 

One hope I had was that if there was any place Ryan was going to be more aggressive spending his money it would be in trusting his international scouting. So far that hasn't been the case and I think Reusse is right to suggest that we should be demonstrating more aggressiveness.

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To Reusse's larger point, I think one of my biggest concerns with Ryan taking back the GM role was that Smith was brilliantly aggressive in the international market. He went after a lot of players that his scouts liked and it was instrumental in the organization's resurgence. In particular, his decision to go heavy on Miguel Sano made up for one of Ryan's most notable mistakes in his tenure (Cabrera).

 

One hope I had was that if there was any place Ryan was going to be more aggressive spending his money it would be in trusting his international scouting. So far that hasn't been the case and I think Reusse is right to suggest that we should be demonstrating more aggressiveness.

 

My question, and it's a serious one, when has Ryan ever really been aggressive on any front in acquiring talent? I'm trying to rememeber when he ever was. Getting Santana in rule 5 isn't aggressive. Trading away AJ when he became completely expendable with the emergence of Mauer, doesn't really fit the bill either.

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Under Ryan the drafting and scouting teams show aggressiveness, but the timidity starts to shine through when he is directly in control.

 

It could certainly be true the Twins scouts just don't like these guys, but its hard not to doubt money is a factor when it shouldn't be.

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In what way? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't really see how.

 

The Twins aggressively expanded their international scouting base under Ryan, which I still think was one of his best, most unheralded moves under his first tenure. I think part of their aggressiveness is going after their guys no matter how they are ranked nationally.

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The Twins aggressively expanded their international scouting base under Ryan, which I still think was one of his best, most unheralded moves under his first tenure. I think part of their aggressiveness is going after their guys no matter how they are ranked nationally.

 

That's enlightening. Thanks, man.

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Personally, I don't have a problem with the Twins failing to spend big money on the Cuban defectors. There probably isn't much info out there on them and due to their ages, you would have to hope that they are ML ready. Despite that, these players are going to get big time free agent type money usually reserved for proven players. I would rather have money go elsewhere.

I think we can all agree that the Twins have made some great international signings recently: Sano, Kepler, Vargas, Polanco, Jorge, Rosario, Landa, Thorpe. So if they avoid a bidding war for 1 or 2 of the top prospects to sign several lesser known ones, I trust their judgement.

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The Twins aggressively expanded their international scouting base under Ryan, which I still think was one of his best, most unheralded moves under his first tenure. I think part of their aggressiveness is going after their guys no matter how they are ranked nationally.

 

The international scouting did expand, but only because it needed to. The Twins were among the last to have a regular presence in the Carribean. It was once again a reactionary move as the Twins were trying to keep up with the rest of the league.

 

Reusse's article boiled my blood last night when I read it even though it's the same stuff we say here daily. Our frustration just seems more justified when someone who gets paid to say it, says it.

 

You don't get the hot girl to dance if you sit in the corner of the gym with your science club buddies texting your mom to come pick you up. Get off your butt and make a bold move Ryan. There is no room in this league for a functioning passive-holic.

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Personally, I don't have a problem with the Twins failing to spend big money on the Cuban defectors. There probably isn't much info out there on them and due to their ages, you would have to hope that they are ML ready. Despite that, these players are going to get big time free agent type money usually reserved for proven players. I would rather have money go elsewhere.

I think we can all agree that the Twins have made some great international signings recently: Sano, Kepler, Vargas, Polanco, Jorge, Rosario, Landa, Thorpe. So if they avoid a bidding war for 1 or 2 of the top prospects to sign several lesser known ones, I trust their judgement.

I'm sure Oakland regrets their decision to outspend everyone for Yoenis Cespedes, for example. Cincinatti and Chapman come to mind as well.
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Personally, I don't have a problem with the Twins failing to spend big money on the Cuban defectors. There probably isn't much info out there on them and due to their ages, you would have to hope that they are ML ready. Despite that, these players are going to get big time free agent type money usually reserved for proven players. I would rather have money go elsewhere.

I think we can all agree that the Twins have made some great international signings recently: Sano, Kepler, Vargas, Polanco, Jorge, Rosario, Landa, Thorpe. So if they avoid a bidding war for 1 or 2 of the top prospects to sign several lesser known ones, I trust their judgement.

 

Yeah, they're not doing that either, hence Reusse's complaint about not signing Tseng.

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The international scouting did expand, but only because it needed to. The Twins were among the last to have a regular presence in the Carribean. It was once again a reactionary move as the Twins were trying to keep up with the rest of the league.

 

 

 

Well, that kind of makes it not some much aggressive but rather reactionary. Still good that he did it, for sure, but if you're one of the last to get out there, that's not aggressive. See, this is why I like coming here. There are times when one can really learn something if they're open to learning something, that is.

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Yeah, they're not doing that either, hence Reusse's complaint about not signing Tseng.

 

I'm not even sure I like that strategy. it's certainly not aggressive. the Cubs were aggressive this year. I'd rather have two or three highly thought of international prospects than one highly thought of prospects and 4 or 5 other guys I got on the cheap.

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The international scouting did expand, but only because it needed to.

 

Quite true, but nevertheless he did it. So you can't dismiss credit IMO.

 

Your nerd in the corner analogy was amusing but I'm sure it will be totally lost on a bunch of guys who focus on stats and math when discussing sports. :)

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I'm not even sure I like that strategy. it's certainly not aggressive. the Cubs were aggressive this year. I'd rather have two or three highly thought of international prospects than one highly thought of prospects and 4 or 5 other guys I got on the cheap.

 

I'm ok with that. If you don't like one guy at a Sano-like level, then it's ok to spread out your resources. However, there is no such excuse when it comes to Gonzalez.

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I'm ok with that. If you don't like one guy at a Sano-like level, then it's ok to spread out your resources. However, there is no such excuse when it comes to Gonzalez.

 

That's too much playing it safe for me, but that's just me (not talking about the Gonzalez part). I've noticed that some of the top 30 international prospects that continue to be unsigned aren't able to be signed until mid August. That could be part of it, if one is wanting to give benefit of the doubt that they'll grab one of those guys.

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The Twins aggressively expanded their international scouting base under Ryan, which I still think was one of his best, most unheralded moves under his first tenure. I think part of their aggressiveness is going after their guys no matter how they are ranked nationally.

 

Reusse's point is on the mark. IMO, the jury's still out on the decision-making in the international market from 2009 to the present. The top 25 prospect list for the pro scouts is probably quite different, so I'm not ready to get outraged unless they don't spent their allotment. And last year, they spent their wad and landed two guys in the media's top 25 in Minier (#7) and Silva (#22?), and also signed Thorpe. I don't know if Landa, Jorge, and Rosario were ranked highly or not, but, aggressve or not, we seem to be holding ourown.

 

But it sure would be nice to see a balls-out display by Ryan once in awhile, like now.

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It's possible that the front office sees something they don't like in Gonzalez.

 

It's possible that the front office wants to spend that money on the FA market this offseason.

 

It's also possible, and more likely, that Ryan just doesn't want to spend the money at all.

 

I don't understand the hesitation to pursue these international free agents. If anything, it seems like the one place where Ryan would feel comfortable spending money.

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I don't believe the expansion of their international scouting was reactionary rather than strategic, but it certainly was due to an assessment that the international market was increasingly fertile. And I would guess their Dominican operation is still not a top tier program.

 

Sure wish our mainsteam media people who probe this stuff once in awhile.

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It's possible that the front office sees something they don't like in Gonzalez.

 

It's possible that the front office wants to spend that money on the FA market this offseason.

 

It's also possible, and more likely, that Ryan just doesn't want to spend the money at all.

 

I don't understand the hesitation to pursue these international free agents. If anything, it seems like the one place where Ryan would feel comfortable spending money.

You're missing one obvious possibility...it's possible the Pohlads don't want to spend the money at all. That would explain a lot of things that have us collectively scratching our heads quite often.

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