Leaderboard

I couldn't care less about "combined" no hitters. They're meaningless to me. Completely. Nothing more than a participation trophy. Still, Joe Ryan was at 106 pitches. I can't see the Twins allowing him to go 135+ pitches in pursuit of a no hitter just to have him blow his shoulder out (See: Mets and Johan Santana)

One of the reasons he got pulled after the 7th was because he might very well have gotten through the 8th without still giving up a hit, but sitting on a pitch count north of 120. Because now the pressure really would have been on for Rocco to "let him try" for the no-hitter, regardless of the impact on the pitcher. They don't want any part of starting pitchers throwing 130+ pitches and seeing guys blow their arms out. (Cubs fans are all nodding their heads right now, thinking about Kerry Wood) I'm sure Ryan wasn't thrilled about coming out, but you know what? That's how it goes, and you don't just do something because the player wants it. Managers have to be strong enough to do things that might not be popular but are in the best interests of the team. We need Joe Ryan to be healthy and a staple of this rotation. And clearly, "computer printouts" are the new meme for "anything I don't like" about the Twins. Y'all need some new material.

I'm not sure which I like better: Rocco not sending Ryan out for the 8th, or getting himself into a situation where he has Duran warming in a game his team had a no hitter and 6-0 lead thru 7. Also no game Twins game would be complete without incomprehensible baserunning. Hard for me to even take any joy out of this win. Baseball needs to have some soul, not computer printouts.

We are a mid market team. To compete with the larger market teams, we must do some things under the manager/coaching staff’s areas of responsibility extremely well and, hopefully, much better than others. Those include: 1. Playing/managing strong fundamental baseball day in and day out. 2. Have strong team chemistry - confidence and camaraderie. 3. Continue to develop young players once they make the big leagues. (A number 4. is health - keeping your players on the field. I’m not sure whose responsibility that is - coaching staff or FO. Either way, it’s been a disaster obviously). Objectively, how has the this staff under Rocco performed in these areas? 1. We have never played strong fundamental baseball under Rocco. Never. Also, no one would ever call Rocco a strong in-game manager. Sure, he’s had his moments, but overall, it’s not his forte. 2. No playoff victories. We just went 1-13 vs. the Dodgers, Astros, Yankees, and Guardians over the past month or so in the midst of a pennant race. Camaraderie? Perhaps. Confidence? None. Rocco has not been able to get his teams past the mental block of being able to compete with the better teams. 3. Which young Twins under Rocco have developed to their potential? Certainly the jury is still out on a couple, notably Miranda and Gordon (trend is positive). But how many more have stagnated or failed? If you want to consistently win, you must have your young talent continue to improve and get the most out of them - I’m not sure I see the track record of that under Rocco. Rocco has won more games than lost. No doubt, he has done a lot of good things. The question is: is he the guy to deliver a consistent contender for a Pennant? Unless he substantively improves in key areas managing/leading a well-positioned mid-market club, the answer is likely (and objectively) no.

Give Rocco, coaching staff, FO and medical staff pink slips.

For those about to jump off the ledge here is some reasoned perspective for you

Three thoughts. First, Wallner is continuing his pattern of struggling a bit at every new level, but then lighting it up. It would be nice if he could win Kepler's spot next year at some point. Second, Julien is so incredibly consistent, and is an on base machine. He too has to get a close look in spring training. The Twins do have a lot of younger position players in or close to the majors--Arraez, Kirilloff, Larnach, Miranda, Lewis, Wallner, Julien, and Lee so I feel pretty comfortable with the lineup long term. Third, the area I feel much less comfortable with is the pitching, both due to underperformance and injuries, so it is great to see Festa stepping up big time. He should move fast.

A complete Twins win! Good pitching, good fielding, good hitting and a Watkins Factor event worthy of ESPN top plays list. One of the few times in the last two weeks that I actually found myself agreeing with a Baldelli decision. It would have been sweet for JR to have that complete no-hitter, but in this moment, I felt it was a good decision to rest him. It was great to see Correa continue the hot bat but better to see Arraez leveling that swing and putting on the sting for hits. Go Twins! Twins Geezer.....out!

I don't think they are giving up on him. They are just making room on the 40-man for players that need to be added. No one is going to claim him at this point, he will more than likely get an invite to ST as a non-roster invitee and he can still pitch his way back onto the roster. Giving up on him would be releasing him.

I hate to say it but I was kind of waiting for Headrick to fall later in the season. I also thought the move up might hurt him and it has tainted his ERA and WHIP but the K rate remains very good which bodes well. Maybe someone else can correct me but I am not aware of him having a plus pitch. Maybe the slider or change is there now but I don't really know. He was dominant at High A but he wasn't really young for the level either. He is a lefty with a good K rate though so a much needed arm in the Twins system. I would say he an outside chance to start but I see him ending up a reliever myself. We will soon see how the Twins feel as they have a lot of Rule V 40 man decisions to make this coming year.,

I didn't take the time to read all the comments yet. But I'll say that letting Ryan go for the no-hitter would have been tantamount to giving up on the season. The Twins' only chance to make the rest of the season relevant is to win the next 7 games. That means Ryan needs to be at full strength on Sunday. For those who feel he should have continued to pitch we'll just have to agree to disagree about Rocco making the correct decision.

To those who are angry, You know he wasn't going to throw 130 pitches under any circumstance. If you don't know that... your anger doesn't matter.

Hopefully unemployment but unless the front office is willing to change their approach, the next manager will probably fail as well. The front office needs to stop investing in damaged pitchers.

For those that are saying Ryan didn't mind being pulled, there were two post game interviews. In the first that was conducted on the field he was clearly pissed and couldn't even answer the question he was asked. The second interview in the clubhouse shows a Ryan that had calmed down and he deftly handled the situation.

Rocco stinks. The end.

Dobnak was on the 60-day IL, but his injury had healed enough for a rehab assignment. I believe his rehab time is up, so now the choice is to reinstall him on the 40-man roster (either with the Twins or on option to St. Paul) or put him on waivers. This move makes the most sense and when he’s not claimed, he can be outrighted to St. Paul and off the 40-man roster.

You apparently didn't hear about Festa's game last night. Hit 101 mph. 6.2 innings when most others go 5 or less. No runs and no walks in a playoff game. He was dominant. Not true. Festa was drafted in the 13th round. Can hit 100mph with no walks in a game. Apparently I am on the Festa bandwagon more than anyone on TD. As for Headrick, he will be on the 40 man. Twins traded away two lh starters in Povich and Hajjar. Can't afford to let another get away.

Funny thing is that Cash and Roberts would be just as hated here as Rocco since they manage just as strictly by spreadsheets as Rocco does. People poopoo the 2019 season because of "the Bomba Squad" and all those homeruns "make it easy to manage" while ignoring that they also had a top 10 pitching staff that year that Rocco apparently didn't ruin single handedly. Yet Roberts gets credit for managing successful teams full of All Stars and MVPs. I don't think Roberts is any better than Rocco. And the Rays are the leaders in managing by "the plan" so I hope fans who don't like Rocco don't want Cash here. Francona is a better mix of following the analytics and in-game feel. But it's just as easy to manage a pitching staff full of stars as it is to manage a lineup like the Bomba Squad. He hasn't turned the Guardians into offensive juggernauts with some sort of magical managerial potion. Managers just can't turn bad baseball players into good ones.

Wallner didn't struggle at Triple-A for long. First two weeks: .105/.227/.105 (10 games) Since then: .303/.424/.592 (37 games). K-rate is also way down. 22.3% in September thus far while his batting line has been ridiculous: .383/.453/.787. The only reason I think Julien has remained at Double-A, is to be available for the playoffs. He still needs to improve defensively, but he could have been promoted months ago.

the coaching change I most want to see is moving on from Tommy Watkins as 3B coach. No signal at all to Correa last night who got thrown out by a mile, and it's only one of a litany of WTF moments in Twins baserunning that might have been alleviated by better work from our 3B coach. We've had many inexplicable decisions made over there this season, to the point where it's noticeable and normally your 3B coach is pretty invisible. Bremer even commented on it last night, FFS. He just seems to be making all the mistakes out there: sending guys when he absolutely shouldn't, holding guys when they should go, and failing to signal players to either stop or go. I don't blame the 3B coach if a player runs through the sign, but I do blame the coach when he doesn't signal at all. Move him to 1B or the bench or somewhere else if you like what he brings to the team in other ways, but let's get him away from 3B where he actively costs the team runs & opportunities on what has been a regular basis this season.

He'll be high on my list for that award for sure, but I think it's still Louie Varland by a decent margin. More innings, higher K-rate, and doing it higher up the ladder. Certainly debatable ? He was really, really good in this one. Cubs broadcasters were fawning over him: Ross will definitely be one to watch over a full season!

I expect Rocco to be back in 2023. I don't think he's THE problem, but I do think he's PART of the problem. Pulling Ryan last night was super frustrating to me, and I'd like to see Rocco replaced with someone who would have let the kid try for a likely once in a lifetime opportunity. The problem is that this FO wouldn't replace Rocco with anyone that isn't awfully similar to them and Rocco. So it's a bit of a catch 22. I want Rocco replaced, but his replacement likely wouldn't be much different at all in terms of in game strategy. So why replace him at all? Unless he's lost the clubhouse. I don't mind the FO. I think they're generally good at drafting/acquiring and developing (outside of front end starting pitching, sadly), and have been willing to make some bigger FA splashes like Donaldson and Correa (even if he fell into their laps, I don't think Terry Ryan would've even considered him). The Maeda, Gray, and Mahle trades were good (quit saying Mahle has an injury history unless you were also saying they shouldn't trade for Montas at the deadline, too, because he had missed time with a shoulder injury at almost the exact same time Mahle did, and he's still pitching for NY). But they're far too stubborn. They have their plans and clearly won't waiver from them. They're slow to react to changes in the FA market or performance outside their expected by the Twins team itself (DFA Pagan!). And that's where I'd like to see Rocco replaced with someone who'd push back and demand some in season changes. The problem is that the guys hiring the new manager likely don't want someone who will push back and thus it's just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic unless they're going to be willing to be more flexible with the new guy. TLDR: Expect Rocco back, replacing him wouldn't change much cuz FO will just hire Rocco 2.0.

I'm very encouraged by Joe Ryan's finishing stretch so far. *Knock on wood* He is our one young starter that has been healthy. He did look effected after his COVID bout, but has bounced back to look stronger than ever. His velocity is holding better than at any time previously and is now touching 95-96. His smooth, seemingly low effort delivery bode well. If he wants to perform against the better lineups he has a couple of things to work on. Command of his off-speed stuff could help him put guys away limiting the foul balls and keeping his pitch count down. I'm more confident now that he can improve.

My guess for what is next with Rocco is that he will meet with the FO and they will talk about minor tweaks to their approach and he will be managing the Twins in 23 and it will be very similiar to the last three years (I don't mean results, but that wouldn't surprise me, I mean style, game decisions, etc..)

We can lament all we want about the missed opportunity, the reality is there will never be a no hitter on this team as long as this management is in charge. Rocco is following the FO philosophy and/or plan, and he believes it himself. Pitch counts and times through the order are here to stay. We have only had 2 complete games since Rocco got here, and that pitcher is in Toronto. Do not expect to see another, no no or not. I feel bad for the kid, but he has been groomed from both systems he has been in that this is the way, so he accepts it all the way. I don't think he is surprised, or even disappointed in being pulled. He probably even expected it. So, again, I feel bad for the kid, but I feel even worse knowing we will never see another Jack Morris who would tell Rocco you will take this ball out of my cold dead hand.

Pennant drive starts today.

Kansas City Royals,

The thing everyone forgets about Nick Punto is that he was actually a pretty good player who was imply asked to do more than he was capable of. He put up 3.6 WAR in 2006, and 2.7 in 2008; he finished his career with over 15 WAR (coming into this season, Buxton had 15 WAR exactly). If Punto had been allowed to bat 8th or 9th, and not 2nd in front of Mauer and Morneau, he'd be remembered very differently; as a spectacular defensive 3B with a pretty good OBP for a bottom of the order hitter.

He wasn't going to stay on the 40 man through the winter as we added others in the minors to it and signed free agents and the Twins thought now was the best time for him to clear through waivers.

Every no hitter thrown in the past 6 seasons... Ried Detmers - 5/10/22 = 108 pitches Tyler Gilbert - 8/14/21 = 102 pitches Corey Kluber - 5/19/21 = 101 pitches Spencer Turnbull - 5/18/21 = 117 pitches (UCL tear diagnosed 3 games later) Wade Miley - 5/7/21 = 114 pitches John Means - 5/5/21 = 113 pitches Carlos Rodon - 4/14/21 = 114 pitches Joe Musgrove - 4/9/21 = 112 pitches Alec Mills - 9/13/20 = 114 pitches Lucas Giolito - 8/25/20 = 101 pitches Justin Verlander - 9/1/19 = 120 pitches (UCL tear diagnosed 6 starts later) Mike Fiers - 5/7/19 = 131 pitches James Paxton - 5/8/18 = 99 pitches Sean Manea - 4/21/18 = 108 pitches Edison Volquez - 6/3/17 = 98 pitches 2 of the 3 pitchers who were allowed to go more than 114 pitches ended their seasons with UCL surgery a few starts thereafter. Joe Ryan throwing fewer than 120 pitches was extremely unlikely and he was on pace for the most pitches thrown in a no hitter in recent history. Ryan possibly could have finished the game at fewer pitches than Mike Fiers, but that's it. Even in a perfect scenario (1 pitch, 1 out), Ryan would be throwing more pitches than 50% of no hitters. The arguments that "well back in the day!" harken to a different era where pitchers weren't throwing with as much effort as they do today and they weren't throwing so many sliders which seem to be more dangerous to UCLs. UCL injuries are common now when they were once rare. It's actually shocking how many of the pitchers on the list above eventually lost a season to UCL surgery eventually. Add a half dozen of those names to the list beyond what I noted.

David Festa 2022 = Louie Varland 2021... So, the question becomes: David Festa 2023 = Louie Varland 2022??? (We shall see) But Festa should start in AA next year, and I have no doubt he will... The difference, Festa is about 3-4 mph faster. Both have good secondary pitches. Very encouraging.

I don't want Roberts, but that Kershaw game was the first week of the season after a shortened spring training with a guy who hasn't held up in recent years who they wanted to be around for the whole season, and, more importantly, the postseason. They're very different situations. So it computes pretty easily.

So, you're saying ... better the devil you know than the devil you don't

I think part of the question you have to ask is, who are you going to get that will be better and why? I don't think Rocco is a great manager, but I think there are also very very few great managers out there. Most of the managers fall into a squishy middle where as long as they're not making egregious mistakes and alienating their clubhouse, then they're...fine. I think most people overrate the impact of the manager on the game today, partly because we have so many fewer terrible managers out there. So I kind of look at it and say, unless he's really losing the team or the front office is going to be replaced then I'm not sure how much impact a move would actually have? (Other than making some people who have decided that Rocco manages entirely by computer "printout" (yet is responsible for every Twins woe from injuries to errors to bullpen implosions to birds pooping on the field) very happy. At least for 10 minutes before they hate the next guy when he doesn't manage like he's Ozzie Guillen from 2005 or something. If the front office goes, then they should hire a new manager. A new leader should get to pick their manager. (It wasn't great when this current FO had to roll with Molitor for an extra year, for a variety of reasons) If Rocco has lost the clubhouse (and I don't think there's anyone on this site competent to know that), then they should move on. Otherwise, I'm not sure what we accomplish, other than sating a portion of the fanbase that will almost certainly be equally angry again by mid-april because they don't like the state of modern baseball and want the Twins to change it all by themselves to the kind of baseball they prefer to see. While winning playoffs games.

Festa is an interesting prospect. I would imagine he'll start the year in AA next season, and it'll be interesting to see how his stuff plays up at that level against more advanced hitters. Anyone who can crack 100 mph and control it has to be taken seriously as a prospect, right? Sometimes guys like this can overwhelm A-ball hitters with velocity and it's not sustainable at higher levels when more advanced hitters can stay alive longer in an AB, so Festa's ability to continue to refine his off-speed pitches will be important next season. He's a big, long dude and should be fun to track. Twins have some good scouting in NJ it looks like? Wallner is doing everything asked of him, and I wouldn't mind seeing him challenge Kepler either, who seems to have capped himself out as a hitter at this point. Some people are going to absolutely hate him, though because he WILL whiff. A lot. But you'll also see a hell of a lot fewer weak grounders to 2B. the contact will be hard and loud. His challenge is going to be to make enough of it. It's been his challenge at every level of pro ball, and so far he's meeting it, but the next step is the toughest one of them all. Gotta say, I'd much rather see him as a lefty bat and OF than Jake Cave. Brooks Lee...love that start for him. 16 BBs against 18 Ks? Outstanding. Solid pop in his bat. Maybe he sticks at SS, maybe not (he seems to have the arm for it?) but that's less of a problem than an opportunity. His bat will keep him rising quickly, and I'm here for it. Noah Miller has had an interesting year. Defensively he's looking pretty good, Offensively, he's not hitting much. Zero power, not a ton of contact. I like the walks, but need to see more from the bat. Maybe he gets pushed up to cedar rapids to get him out of the FSL?

Great article in today's Strib. Talks about the Twins really lost this season in late June versus Cleveland. Refers to five games in which they had late leads and the bullpen blew all five. The name that stood out in four of the five was Pagan. Yes, the front office brought him in, but Rocco kept sending him out there day-after-day. I am old and I want change, lots of change. Certainly most of the coaching staff and preferably the manager. Maybe also the front office, although I like most of their moves this year. My final grade on them will be if they have the guts to cut bait with their entire coaching staff and Rocco. Would love to see Watkins remain with the Twins, just not as their third base coach. And I see a 2023 team that can/should be very good. Really don't want to have to watch another season of Rocco managing it to a .500 team.

Rocco Baldelli made a move that improved the Twins chances of beating Cleveland next series and people are mad at him, which just tells you that there's nothing rational behind it. People have memed themselves into believing this "spreadsheet" thing as if Rocco made some kind of weird decision that no other manager in the league would've made. In fact, the opposite is true. Even TLR would've pulled Ryan there. I heard the same "spreadsheet" nonsense lobbed at Gabe Kapler when he was managing the Phillies and for a significant section of the fanbase he couldn't do a single thing right. So the Phillies fired him and hired Joe Girardi, a pure old school guy. What happened next? Kapler took a San Francisco Giants team built with balsa wood and bubble gum to a 100+ win season while the Phillies had basically an identical record with Girardi and had to fire him this year. One more point: leaving Moran out there for the ninth was also smart. Who cares about the runs he gave up? The Twins had five runs to give. They are just starting a stretch of eight games in a week, and they need to go all out to win every single one of them. Having rested starters and relievers is critical.

Nice article. I think he has added some zip to his fastball which is helping him, but he also mentions working on other pitches. When I have seen him on MiLB TV, he has shown good command, the ability to limit walks and a number of swings and misses. At 6 ft 6 inches I think his ball gets to the plate quickly like Ober (but not to his extent). Dman raises a good question about his out pitch, because as he climbs a lot of pitches generating swings and misses tend to get fouled off. Still a lefty with these numbers might look good in the bullpen even if he lacks the pitches to start. And, in the bullpen, his velocity would play up.

I find the expectations of some fans a little crazy. Coming into the season Twins were expected to be around .500, just over, and to have a chance to compete with the Sox, but many expected Twins to finish 2nd. We are .500 today, and have a chance to finish above .500. Our chances of making playoffs took a huge hit this past week, but not 0 yet. I am not saying we will make it. For the people that think a full new FO and coaching staff will get anything more next year, you must not follow baseball too much. I mean look at SF this year, they were one of the best teams last year, and this year they are below .500. Their roster is almost the same, pitching may have even been upgraded talent wise, but their offense was much worse. The big years from some guys did not happen again. Is that FO, or managers, or just players not performing the same? Should the FO saw it coming? Did the coaching staff ask them to make changes they did not need to do, or fail to get the players to make changes they should? We had a full MLB roster on IL for much of the year, we are not alone in injuries, but the team has been carried the last month or so with rookies, or backups. Some have stepped up or we would not even be .500. Just think if Miranda had not bounced back but hit like he did his first several games? Should Rocco and coaches get any credit for his improvement after he first struggled? What about Gordon and his offense? Do they get no credit for that? You may not like how he manages pitchers and the staff, and maybe some old school guy would have won a few more games, but maybe they would have lost several more too.

He fits the profile for the FO. He will be here for a few more years. I am not his fan but I do not see a change.

I expect management to let him go. I am not sure how much of this mess is his fault though. I am not a fan of either party.

While I understand he likely wouldn't have finished and they weren't going to let him go 140 pitches, they should have at least let him start the 8th and see what happens. If he got lucky and had a 10 pitch inning, who knows.

Festa clinches minor league pitcher of the year IMO. Hits 101 MPH, goes 6.2 innings (not a typo!), 2 hits, NO walks, and no runs. Wow! Ben Ross continues to do very well. SSS but this has been a great start for him.

I'm not sure about the reasoning of having Moran throw 40+ pitches and the need to have one of your lefties pitch two innings. Go for the "easy" win and use anotehr arm in the 9th.

Duran was warm? I was only watching on the Gamecast on my phone. Why didn't he let Duran get the 9th for an all-rookie combined no-hitter?

Just in case anyone is still interested, the Minnesota Twins play the Kansas City Royals this afternoon/evening in the battle for third place in the weakest division above AAA. After Joe Ryan’s dominating win last night, the Twins’ magic number for clinching third is down to 9: with 22 games remaining they are 14 ahead of the Royals. Sweeping tonight and tomorrow would lower it to 5 and pretty much seal third place. On the mound for the home team is 32-year-old Sonny Gray, with a 7-4 record and 3.09 ERA. According to mlb.com, his nickname is Pickles. Opposing him will be 38-year-old Zach Greinke, who is at 4-8 and 4.00 this season. This is a rematch of the August 16th game at Target Field, in which both pitched 6 effective innings, but Greinke was tagged with a loss because he allowed one earned run (three total) whereas Pickles threw 6 scoreless innings on the way to an impressive team shutout and 9-0 victory. Greinke is not the same pitcher he was ten years ago and some of the young Twins have impressive records against him: Miranda is 2/3, .667; Urshela is 6/13, .538; Gordon is 3/6, .500; and Arraez is 4/10, .400. On the other side, you can tell from the numbers that Pickles has not pitched for the Twins very long: Salvador Perez is hitting .182 against him with no homeruns in 22 at-bats. Surely no one pitching for the Twins could compile that kind of record! Tonight’s starting lineups are below: Go, Twins! Let's go ahead and put this third-place battle to bed!

With the double header, they can bring up Varland without using an option (again).

Watched Festa pitch last night, looked dominant. 2 hits were a swinging bunt and a bloop single. Tall and skinny, room to develop and get stronger. Hope he starts in AA next year, and progresses to AAA if does well, maybe a shot at Twins like Varland this year.

Rocco will be here for sure, but I could see coaching changes, and maybe changes to the conditioning and medical treatment of players (I do not have the knowledge to determine if something can be done to limit injuries, but they might change out some people and try). I thought Tingler was brought in to give Rocco someone to seek advice from when making game decisions. But, I see no evidence that happened. I think they will get an experienced (maybe college again) pitching coach, and maybe a hitting coach to work on approaches at the plate with runners on base, with two strikes, etc. The one change I would really advocate for is a different approach by the FO in free agency and trades--please no more Pagans, Colomes, Happs, Smiths, Shoemakers, and no injured players like Paddack and maybe Mahle.

I can't comment on Rocco pulling Ryan. There's enough on that. What I can say is that I'm happy we got to play KC. They are our aspirin after the guardians headache. Good news about Ryan, but it's also consistent with the narrative I've read in past post that he is excellent against poor teams and poor against excellent teams. As a rookie this is to be expected and I look forward to seeing him continue his growth. It was also nice that Kansas City pitch batting practice for our boys and made everyone feel better. The guardians won again and that means a five-game lead with 22 games to go.