What should we do with Plouffe and Burroughs

[spideyo]

Right now, both these guys are hitting like crap, ESPECIALLY in clutch situations.

 

Burroughs has looked good on the field, but if Danny Boy gets his act together, we don't need him in the field.

 

Plouffe is still inconsistent at best defensively at pretty much every position. Unfortunately right now he is our only backup guy at 2nd and SS, but if they bring Dozier or someone else up they don't need him there, and we have a log jam of adequate outfielders who have looked better at the plate than him (Parmelee, Doumit, Thomas, Revere).

 

So what do you do? Neither has options left, so any attempt to send them to the minors to get their act together runs the risk of losing them (and Burroughs can refuse to be out righted and force the Twins to release him). Other than Dozier, do we have any guys at AAA that are capable of playing 2b, 3b and/or SS and hit better than .150?

 

Burroughs is easy to write off as a guy who missed his chance years ago, but he at least has had a few years of decent batting stats and has one position he's good at in the field. Plouffe had a good line in the 51 games he played at AAA in 2011, but other than that he really hasn't had great offensive numbers in the minors, and hasn't really shown any indication that he's going to suddenly blossom into a fantastic hitter.

 

I'd trade them both for Nick Punto if we could. At least he knows how to throw down a sacrifice bunt now and then.

[tpb8]

It's hard to sit on the bench 3 out of every 4 games, then get up to the plate and rake. I have no expectations of Burroughs. He's going to play once a week, provide good D and his bat will be weak. Plouffe has been swinging the bat well lately. He doesn't have much to show for it, but if he's given the ABs i have confidence that he could provide some consistent pop. Hopefully Gardy is over his infatuation with Clete Thomas and we'll see Plouffe get more ABs. It's a losing season. Plouffe is a guy that should get a lot of playing time. Let's see what he can do over a full season in the majors. I think he's a corner OF guy, but could be used like Cuddy was to spell 2B or 1B from time-to-time.

[Top Gun]

They are so done, why even keep them?

[spideyo]

Honestly, what gives you confidence that Plouffe will ever develop consistent pop? And what has he done to justify regular playing time?

[tpb8]

I don't know.....he had excellent power numbers in AAA last year and hit 8 HR in his short time with the Twins last season. He's 25. He's a HS position player and i think he's developing a little late. You can't sit him on the bench 5 days in a row and expect him to hit on the 6th.

 

Why not give him a ton of ABs this year as a corner OF? He's mobile and has a good arm. The only way his defense will improve is to play. Are we afraid to take ABs away from 28 year old Clete Thomas? If Plouffe gets a ton of ABs and sucks, so be it. He's no good, you know it and you move on. But.....what if he does well? He's a 1st round pick that had a nice year in 2011. Why not find out exactly what he is? We're not chasing a pennant this year.

[gmarais66]

Ahhh, did anyone see Plouffe's drunken ballerina performance on that ball he should have caught last night? The guy has no defensive position... He has no range in the infield and looks lost in the outfield... Not to mention he's a marginal hitter... He tries to hit a home run every at-bat and just hits a lot of fly balls and popups... I was shocked when he got that hit up the middle last night, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while... Hitters like Plouffe are a dime a dozen at the AAA level... Like Hughes, he's disposable... He's a filler with no options... Send him packing and give the playing time to Revere.... I know, I know, you'll say he doesn't have the arm... But he would have caught that ball Plouffe missed last night and that would have been the difference in the game... Not to mention, Revere is a spark plug... He can make things happen...

[tpb8]

Can Plouffe get a little time in the OF before he's written off? The guy barely has any experience out there but we just want to "send him packing" right now? The Twins are likely a last place team this year. Why not give Plouffe a chance to show what he does (or doesn't) have on a fairly regular basis?

[twinsnorth49]

Ahhh, did anyone see Plouffe's drunken ballerina performance on that ball he should have caught last night? The guy has no defensive position... He has no range in the infield and looks lost in the outfield... Not to mention he's a marginal hitter... He tries to hit a home run every at-bat and just hits a lot of fly balls and popups... I was shocked when he got that hit up the middle last night, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while... Hitters like Plouffe are a dime a dozen at the AAA level... Like Hughes, he's disposable... He's a filler with no options... Send him packing and give the playing time to Revere.... I know, I know, you'll say he doesn't have the arm... But he would have caught that ball Plouffe missed last night and that would have been the difference in the game... Not to mention, Revere is a spark plug... He can make things happen...

 

I think Revere should start all 3 games against K.C. , he has the potential to provide some life but he has to perform. If he does and the team wins 2 of 3 he should stay up for the foreseeable future. I think throwing in the towel on Plouffe is a bit premature, he hasn't had that many opportunities in the outfield, he's still a better choice than Thomas.

[twinsnorth49]

There are so many instances of teams giving up on players too early, Plouffe may very well not end up being the guy but right now it's not as if it's a numbers game that is keeping him from getting to show what he is capable of, a regular spot is available for Gardenhire to put him, if he chose.

 

I like Gardenhire and I'm not in the camp that believes much of this lies at his feet but I do feel he could benefit by showing a little more faith and confidence in some of his younger players, he has with players such as Parmelee, Casilla and Valencia and I think he should do the same with Plouffe and Revere, they need the playing time. I feel that is the one thing that the younger players lack on this team, including the recently departed Luke Hughes and I feel that lies with Gardy. It's hard to play under the microscope, especially when you don't have a body of work to give you some slack, always feeling that you're one mistake away from the bench again is awfully tough on a young player and it's the manager's job to nurture that confidence, it could be painful in the short term but once a player gets it and feels his back is covered, good things can happen in the long run.

 

How much better would the Pirates look with Jose Bautista in their lineup and they gave up on him twice , the second time came after he played in a few games sporadically as a spare part, never really getting a chance. It's worth noting that 5 other teams also deemed him expendable ( in 1 year), until he stuck with the Jays in '08. It was finally Cito Gaston that gave Bautista the opportunity by taking a chance and showing some unwavering confidence in him (at the age of 30). When they waived Alex Rios in late August of '09 Gaston told Bautista the job was his for the rest of the year, no matter what, even if he struck out every time up (what did he have to lose)? 10 home runs that fall and 54 the following year and the rest is history.

 

Now I'm not saying Plouffe is the 2nd coming of Bautista, far from it, but young players need confidence instilled in them and to be given the belief they can be successful. I only mention Plouffe in all of this because he is out of options, I think Revere falls into the, being given a chance, category as well but he has a little more time on his side to get his opportunity. The Twins have come this far with Plouffe, much like they did with Hughes. It's time to decide what to do with him, I'd much rather see him get his chance to play regularly than to just waive him like Hughes. The team is not going anywhere this year, I'd rather go nowhere with some potential than nowhere with guys like Thomas and Burroughs.

 

On a side note, had Plouffe's hit in game 1 gone over the fence (it was a well hit ball at a high pressure moment)....I question how many people would be talking like this. Baseball is a game of inches, sometimes you just need a bit more rope.

[gmarais66]

How much better would the Pirates look with Jose Bautista in their lineup and they gave up on him twice , the second time came after he played in a few games sporadically as a spare part, never really getting a chance. It's worth noting that 5 other teams also deemed him expendable ( in 1 year), until he stuck with the Jays in '08.

I think it's a little more than a stretch to compare Bautista with Plouffe... Bautista had a minor league track record of good offensive numbers... He had shown power potential in Pittsburgh... Plouffe has no such history... No indicators to say the Twins really need to stick with him until he reaches his potential... With the exception of 2011, which I would argue is a 51-game anomaly, his eight seasons in the minor leagues showed he is little more than mediocre.... Not to mention, he's a liability every place he's played on defense...

[Mike Sixel]

This season is over, and Plouffe should be out there a lot more often. Gotta see what he is, or is not, as a player.

[Guest USAFChief]

Burroughs: who cares?

 

Plouffe: put him at 2nd base through the AS break and see if a guy who was a good enough infielder to be drafted in the first round and play SS for half a decade in the minor leagues can handle the position. At the very least he has some chance to be better than Alexi Casilla, who has had enough chances to fail.

[Rosterman]

Plouffe is a first rounder that the Twins hope to get something out of (shades of B.J. Garbe and Ryan Mills and Adam Johnson). But it is sad that his place is that of a role player. Yet the thought of Plouffe (and Luke Hughes) being two guys on the bench was a positive coming into the season, supplemented by Burroughs getting a chance, and Revere as the speedster. The Twins basically flipped Revere for Thomas, who is a better bench choice at the moment. Burroughs was around to put some rpessure on Valencia....but as we see, it ain't too much pressure.

 

But Plouffe (and sadly Hughes) are those perfect bench guys, capable of playing many positions, a bit of a pop in the bat, and can run better than a slowpoke. When a player goes down, you want a bench guy that is capable of replacing that player short-term. If it is long-term, you have the choice of the bench guy or the hot future prospect getting time (i.e. Revere last year in center). And hopefully during your 1-4 years sitting on the bench, you do get a near fulltime experience to show your worth (see Punto, Hocking, Reboulet or any number of other infielders.)

 

With the departure of Hughes, the Twins are hanging with Plouffe, and have the option of Jamey Carroll being super bench guy if Dozier forces himself west to the big squad and Casilla hangs onto his bag.

 

Plouffe is a role player and can come off the bench and happily does what he is asked. He would like to be a regular somewhere, and maybe it will happen when he is 28 or 29 and can depart the Twins organization, or he proves too expensive as a bench guy, or he shines and becomes tradebait.

 

Thomas is a dime a dozen outfielder that brings abck memories of Dustan Mohr, Lew Ford, Mike Restovich, and to a lesser extent Doug Deeds and all the AAA guys that have gone thru Twins backup land in the past.

 

Burroughs, wish he really did have some power. Today, I would rather have Jim Thome on the bench with two multi-position infielders and speedster Revere -- although the logjam of Morneau/Parmelee/Doumit/Mauer is creatin it's own set of issues, it seems.

[Montecore]

Forget Burroughs, he's done. Plouffe I'm not so sure about. but where do you play him?

[twinsnorth49]

I think it's a little more than a stretch to compare Bautista with Plouffe... Bautista had a minor league track record of good offensive numbers... He had shown power potential in Pittsburgh... Plouffe has no such history... No indicators to say the Twins really need to stick with him until he reaches his potential... With the exception of 2011, which I would argue is a 51-game anomaly, his eight seasons in the minor leagues showed he is little more than mediocre.... Not to mention, he's a liability every place he's played on defense...

I'm not comparing him to Bautista and I said that, I'm merely using his circumstance to illustrate how when a player is given opportunity and confidence good things can happen. Up until then no team had really shown much faith or given much opportunity to Bautista. When someone did, it paid off.

 

If Bautista had such a good track record of offensive numbers and power potential, why did he not settle into a regular playing spot until his 6th team and almost 30th birthday. You're missing the point.

[Bark's Lounge]

I agree with TwinsNorth49 for using Bautista as an example. Of course the Apocalypse will be upon us if Plouffe hits 50 Jacks someday. Hell, Bautista was looked at as garbage leading up to his Bluejays breakout - I believe he jumped between 4-5 organizations and 4 of them did not think too much of him. It seems as if it takes a fair amount of time for some players to learn the game and come into their own. Shane Mack is a good example of a player who took a little more time to develop as a 1st round pick. He was 27 when he had his breakout campaign - he was our 2nd or 3rd best position player in 1991. I might regret using this one, but Cuddyer seemed to figure some things out in his age 27 season - he had his value. Plouffe is 25 years old, 26 in June. He is athletic enough to play the Middle Infield and the corner OF positions and has some HR pop. Give him a chance, he still has a pulse. The Twins have a pile of dead corpses they need to bury. Plouffe is not one of them.

[spideyo]

Giving Plouffe regular OF time means that Revere isn't getting that time. Revere might not have the greatest arm, but he's going to have to make a lot fewer throws than plouffe, because he'll catch a helluva lot more. He might not hit many home runs, but last night showed that he can make things happen offensively. He is exciting to watch too. Revere is either going to be a regular part of the Twins OF for years to come, or a valuable trading chip. Last night he looked like he was determined to prove that he deserved to stay up here. I wish we could see that same kind of spark from Plouffe, but right now, it's just not there.

 

As far as playing him at 2b, I'd rather take my chances with casilla. At his worst he's about on par with what Plouffe is doing right now. When he's having a good day, he's a far superior fielder and more exciting batter than Plouffe has shown himself to be.

[Bark's Lounge]

Giving Plouffe regular OF time means that Revere isn't getting that time. Revere might not have the greatest arm, but he's going to have to make a lot fewer throws than plouffe, because he'll catch a helluva lot more. He might not hit many home runs, but last night showed that he can make things happen offensively. He is exciting to watch too. Revere is either going to be a regular part of the Twins OF for years to come, or a valuable trading chip. Last night he looked like he was determined to prove that he deserved to stay up here. I wish we could see that same kind of spark from Plouffe, but right now, it's just not there.

 

As far as playing him at 2b, I'd rather take my chances with casilla. At his worst he's about on par with what Plouffe is doing right now. When he's having a good day, he's a far superior fielder and more exciting batter than Plouffe has shown himself to be.

In all honesty, the fact of the matter is that neither Revere or Plouffe has much projectability as a long time Twins starting position player unless: (A) Revere develops an arm or ( Plouffe turns himself into an adequate Middle Infielder. The other Twins OF prospects (Hicks, Benson, Arcia, Morales, Rosario) will quickly surpass them when their development dictates as such. Benson and Hicks are already nipping at their heels. Also, Casilla is a filler player.

[twinsnorth49]

In all honesty' date=' the fact of the matter is that neither Revere or Plouffe has much projectability as a long time Twins starting position player unless: (A) Revere develops an arm or ( Plouffe turns himself into an adequate Middle Infielder. The other Twins OF prospects ([b']Hicks[/b], Benson, Arcia, Morales, Rosario) will quickly surpass them when their development dictates as such. Benson and Hicks are already nipping at their heels. Also, Casilla is a filler player.

That's about the size of it, I don't think either of them will be around in two years unless something significant changes. Nothing will change if they don't play, platoon them this year and see what happens, if they don't perform then it's only a matter of time anyway.

[Mchans24]

Plouffe has actually had some good ABs the last couple of days with little to show for it. That being said, neither of these guys are anything more than 11,12,13 position player on a roster. Plouffe may be capable of hitting 20-25 homers but his obp will be about .280. Burroughs has looked incredibly over matched at the plate. He was a good story but look for him to be cut very soon. Dozier will get call up and Carrol will float around infield at 3B, SS, and 2B in a Nick Punto role

[Bark's Lounge]

All of those who assume that Carroll will gladly take a bench role or a floating Utility player role after he has proven himself to be more than an adequate Shortstop will be disappointed. Dozier's only call-up will be to fulfill the role of 2B with Casilla being demoted to utility player. This will be Ron and Terry's decision. Straight up!!!

[rogrulz30]

I think we have to keep Plouffe and give him AB. He is one of the players I have a good outlook on. He needs AB's, he needs to have a consistent position, if the Twins are going to continue to be really bad, get Plouffe playing time and a position. We need to give him a chance. Burroughs is done, get rid of Burroughs, sign Inge.

[twinsnorth49]

All of those who assume that Carroll will gladly take a bench role or a floating Utility player role after he has proven himself to be more than an adequate Shortstop will be disappointed. Dozier's only call-up will be to fulfill the role of 2B with Casilla being demoted to utility player. This will be Ron and Terry's decision. Straight up!!!

 

At age 38 and a 2 year $6.5 mil deal, he should gladly take the team shoe shine job if it came down to it.

 

I like Carroll and am in no rush to change anything to do with his playing time but at the end of the day, he doesn't have much leverage to be dictating how the team ends up using him, but I do agree that he shouldn't be the one sent to be the utility man, for now.

[Nick Nelson]

All of those who assume that Carroll will gladly take a bench role or a floating Utility player role after he has proven himself to be more than an adequate Shortstop will be disappointed.

I like his defense, but no one with a .264 slugging percentage should consider his job safe.

[spideyo]

I like his defense, but no one with a .264 slugging percentage should consider his job safe.

His OBP is .325 though, and in the 2 hole, OBP is gonna be a heckuva lot more useful. Ideally, he shouldn't need to do much more than get to first and/or move span to 2b. Mauer, Willingham, and Morneau should be able to knock him in