Article: The Trouble With Counting on Kubel

[Dantes929]

As I said in another thread. Once Sano is here (June??) We have 5 guys for 3 spots (LF, RF,DH)--Arcia, Willingham, Parmalee, Kubel, Plouffe. Hopefully, Parmalee gets a chance to see if that Sept. a couple of years ago was a fluke. Arcia has to play everyday. If we platoon Plouffe and Kubel where does that leave Willingham?? I wonder if Kubel is just insurance against Parmalee or in Rochester until we trade Willingham for what little he is worth.

I guess in my vision if Kubel, Arcia, Plouffe and Sano are all on the team then Parmalee would not be. Not giving up on Parmalee but he has had two years to prove 2011 was not a fluke. Its just that the splits of Kubel and Plouffe scream platoon.

[jharaldson]

Full injury history here, if you have an hour to kill

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=31757

 

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/20130820injuries-limit-arizona-diamondbacks-outfielder-jason-kubels-output.html

 

Thanks for the good info! This is a little more detailed then the stuff I found at Fox but it is still effectively the same thing. 1 stint on the disabled list for a quad strain. A couple of Day to Day outages with knee and back soreness. The Arizona Central article had an interesting quote describing the injuries

 

But he’s never had a year like this season, one in which the nagging injuries have hurt his production so significantly.

 

“His knee has been a problem all year,” manager Kirk Gibson said. “Does it affect his hitting? It could. I don’t know, but during the season you’ve got to deal with it.

 

I agree with the premise Nick had in this article, I don't think we can count on him much if such minor stuff really changed his game that much.

[DaveW]

A knee injury is rarely ever "minor", continuing to play with a nagging injury on the knee is absolutely a recipe for disaster, more so when you HAVE to play the field every day in the National League.

 

Kirk Gibson of all people should realize this....

[OldTimeTwinkie]

oops. Kubels troubles did not start in 2013. They started at the end of July of 2012. He has been brutal since then. Check his production starting in August of 2012.

[Thrylos]

A knee injury is rarely ever "minor", continuing to play with a nagging injury on the knee is absolutely a recipe for disaster, more so when you HAVE to play the field every day in the National League.

 

Yeah. Especially after that initial knee injury that practically got his knee into pieces. For the ones who do not remember, he tore both the ACL and PCL, and the LCL and his meniscus (for good measure.) That was a horrible injury and one can never completely heal from that, so any sort of knee situation is troublesome...

[DocBauer]

Always been a big fan of Kubel, even if he never quite became the OF hoped for before his knee injury, and never quite became the complete hitter we had hoped for. But he was very solid and productive for us overall in his career here. Disappointed when he and Cuddy were allowed to walk.

 

I worry the Kubel's knee is "older" than the 31 y.o. rest of his body, and also worried about increasing SO totals growing each season and a worse half to his 2012 season that continued in to and through last season. But I felt at the time, and still do, that even if his signing turns out to be a release/retirement "thanks for the memories" transaction, it is/was a good flyer. Guys one year removed from a good season and signed on the cheap are a smart investment.

 

My only concern is, does Kubel make the club out of ST based on memories and past performance if he doesn't show clear hitting and production in Florida? The best team the Twins can put together offensively AND defensively is for Molitor to assist Willingham to transition in to a mostly full time DH role with Hicks in center, hopefully, and Presley in LF. And I repeat that a healthy and productive Willingham at DH, who could play the OF once in a while, is what could bring potential trade value. Nobody is going to trade for a 35 y.o. Willingam saying: "oh look, he's better than we thought in the OF suddenly because the Twins are marching him out there every day."

 

How many AB's are truly available for Kubes then? What if last season and 3 strikeouts in today's first game is more the norm? Does this prevent another opportunity for Parmelee?

I don't have a lot of illusions about Parm at this point. But he's quite a bit younger, better in the OF, can fill in at 1B and could yet have the lightbulb go on. I still feel the Twins made a mistake by not standing by him last season with consistent enough AB's.

 

I guess that's where Kubel scares me overall, not really showing anything, truly being done, but taking a roster spot based solely on the past.

[Dman]

I dunno, I could see this being the case if they completely fall on their face again this year and don't show improvement, however I think the Twins manage to win at least 72-74 games this year because of the improved rotation alone. If they do that, and get to .500/above .500 in 2015 (very capable) then you certainly can keep him around.

 

Yeah, Gardy isn't perfect, but the guy has had success in this league, his players like playing for him, he is likable and knows baseball. I wish him nothing but success.

 

I hope you are right. I have never heard a player say anything negative about Gardy and it seems we hear every other day that the players that have played for the Twins want to stay with the Twins so he must be doing something right.

[jorgenswest]

Parmelee has yet to get consistent playing time. At this point, he should have over 1000 plate appearances. That hasn't happened because of options like Doumit and now Kubel.

 

If the Twins are certain he will not be a useful major league player, they were wise not to invest the at bats. If that is the case, why is he still around? I am certain Kubel will not be part of the next successful run. I am certain Paremelee won't either without the consistent opportunity. If Kubel is on the roster out of spring training, they may as well DFA Parmelee. There won't be enough at bats for him to develop.

 

Ninety loss teams should be looking to get younger. They should be looking to find pieces for the next successful run. Signing decline phase players in attempt to be mediocre just stalls the return. The Twins don't even do that well. They would have to improve to be mediocre.

 

Dave Fleming wrote an article projecting surprise teams for 2014. The Twins didn't do well. The first two listed factors were 2013 batter age and pitcher age. The Twins had their second oldest roster in the last 15 years in 2013.

 

http://www.billjamesonline.com/which_team_will_surprise_in_2014_/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

 

Let's hope they fare better on this list next spring. They can choose to invest consistent playing time in Parmelee, Arcia, Gibson, Meyer, Worley, Pinto, Tonkin, Hicks or Escobar or they can choose to give it to Kubel, Suzuki, Bartlett, Pelfrey, Correia, Willingham and Guerrier.

[Rick Niedermann]

This roster will be in flux for the first 2 months of the season anyway. So I am ok with giving Kubel a shot. Especially if Gardy would change his philosophy on platooning. A DH of Kubel/Colabello-Pinto looks like it could work. Lots of mixing and matching ahead for Gardy. But by June is will sort it's self out and we will know if Kubel is a CBPOY candidate or done.

[Guest USAFChief]

I'll repeat myself...it wouldn't surprise me if Kubel is the 2nd or 3rd best hitter on this team.

[TheLeviathan]

I'll repeat myself...it wouldn't surprise me if Kubel is the 2nd or 3rd best hitter on this team.

 

Wow! You must be expecting him to have a monster year!

 

Er...wait....I get the impression you are saying something else by this too.....

[bird]

I'll repeat myself...it wouldn't surprise me if Kubel is the 2nd or 3rd best hitter on this team.

 

Behind Steve Drew and who else?

[Guest USAFChief]

Behind Steve Drew and who else?

Not sure who else, except it won't be a SS.

[VandyTwinsFan]

I guess we'll find out if he is. He's officially made the team. We must have our sites site on the K record.

[LaBombo]

Bill James identified three kinds of position players who tend to flame out suddenly in their early 30's: Ones whose value is concentrated in just one or two skills, ones who had an "old man" skill set profile in their latter or even mid 20's (power and walks, no speed, limited range).

 

Is there anything on that list that doesn't describe Kubel?