Need some Pinto advice from the Twins fans

[Jim Labruno]

Hey All

 

Mets fan here came for some advice. I play in a baseball league for a game called Strat O Matic baseball. Been around forever but not popular in all the world. I have a high pick in our upcoming draft this weekend and I need a future catcher to have behind Wilson Ramos since he gets hurt all the time. I could take Gattis or Pinto. Gattis can hit the long ball but other then that he does not walk, does not get on base a lot, so in this game I play it hurts his value. I am thinking about taking Pinto. The only issue is I am not sure if he is for real. I read things on the internet but it is very limited information when it comes to him. All I know is the last year and a half he started to really turn it on in AA and AAA and was good in limited time in Majors last year. It also states he is not a good defender which I can live with since Ramos is. I also know Suzuki is going to start and Pinto will either back him up or go to AAA to start season. That does not worry me as Suzuki is trash (No offense) and it will not be long. So I am asking the fans with all the knowledge. Is Pinto the teams future catcher? Is he the guy they deem will be the man for a long time to come. Or is he just a place holder for a year or two for another young gun?

 

Thanks for your time. And by the way Buxton is going to be such a stud! AS if you did not already know that haha

[Jim Labruno]

Nobody? Somebody has to have some insight!

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's a tough question. Pinto is a marginal prospect. He sure looked good last season with the bat but his defense is still very much in question, as is his ability to continue swinging a big stick.

 

On the other hand, Suzuki looks pretty broken down and the Twins do not have a third viable MLB catcher on the 40 man roster.

 

My best guess is that Suzuki starts out the season getting 75%+ of the starts. Fryer or some other hack might start the season as his backup but by May, I think Pinto will be the backup (if not immediately out of ST).

 

How much playing time he gets from there is anyone's guess, as it all depends on whether he can hit.

[jimbo92107]

I'm a Josmil Pinto fan. His hitting approach to me looks very advanced, excellent poise and zone coverage. I think he's going to average close to .300 on a consistent basis, with occasional power. He sprays line drives to all fields in a way that reminds me of Mike Redmond, plus he can elevate his swing when he's got a notion.

 

Given that Gattis is a hit-or-miss guy, I'd pick Pinto over him in a fantasy league.

[Jim Labruno]

Yeah I think Pinto has more upside then Gattis but I am concerned about Pinto's defense and the fact he might not get much time this year. Curious, Does the Minnesota are talk about him being the future or is someone in the pipe lines?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yeah I think Pinto has more upside then Gattis but I am concerned about Pinto's defense and the fact he might not get much time this year. Curious, Does the Minnesota are talk about him being the future or is someone in the pipe lines?

 

There's no one else worth mentioning.

[Thrylos]

There's no one else worth mentioning.

 

I would not go that far

 

But Pinto is likely the Twins starting Catcher for the next 3+ years, unless something happens. I have been really high on Pinto since about 3 years ago when he was on nobody's radar. I would think that there is a good possibility that he (and not Suzuki) is the starter for most of the season. Simply, if he is in the majors, the Twins will not sit him. Chris Herrmann (who the BA in 2013 called the best defensive C in the organization) is another possibility and Matt Koch, Stuart Turner, Tyler Grimes and maybe even Kyle Knudson might be starter material and they are 2+ years away.

[Jim Labruno]

That is good to know, I am not a big fan of Herrmann

[beckmt]

I have played strato for many years, Pinto is worth a shot, there are very few catchers that are offensive threats even if it may be hard to live with the defense(I had Mike Piazza in a keeper league for many years). If you are just looking for a backup, with the possibility of being a starter, he may be your best choice. (Hard to do without knowing the number of teams in the league and the rules).

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I'm with Brock, I don't think TR and Gardy believe Pintos September stats. He'll be sent down to AAA to start the season, but force the issue by May, and own starting catcher (barring injury) for the foreseeable future. This isn't to say that Pinto is for certain that good, just that there's no one close to compete. However I do think Pinto is the real deal. His September numbers aren't par for course, but not far off.

[Jim Labruno]

Thanks for all the help, I am thinking I will take him if he makes it to me in our draft and hope for the best.

[Reider]

I'm definitely a Pinto fan. He's not the greatest catcher, but he sure can hit. And with the Twins hoping for the young guys to step up, why wouldn't the Twins want Pinto's bat in the line up if he is out-hitting Suzuki? Only time will tell how Pinto pans out, but I have a good feeling about him at this point.

 

As far as Chris Herrmann goes, I don't mind him. He's decent defensively and how could you forget his 10th inning Grand Slam against the Angels on July 23rd, 2013, while making an emergency start for Joe Mauer? He can hit for power, but obviously Pinto appears to be a better hitter.

[cmathewson]

Pinto should get at least 300 PAs this year. Also, his defense isn't as bad as reports. The Twins often cite stuff like this to motivate players to work on things. They said the same stuff about Ramos. Relative to most other young catchers, he's above average defensively. The main thing he needs to work on is game management. All young catchers have this issue, which is why they picked Susuki to serve as mentor.

 

I think he's every bit the prospect Ramos was. Ramos's power tool was much stronger, but Pinto's hit tool is much stronger. Otherwise, they are on par from where I sit.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Not familiar with Strato, but basically Pinto should be a decent fantasy option since I don't think there's much in terms of talk of him moving off catcher. Based on the last couple of seasons, I think it's safe to say that the kid can hit and will be above average offensively at the position. Defense is a question right now and will definitely mitigate his playing time in the short term.

 

I would expect him to be eased into the role this year and probably be the official starter next year (assuming he doesn't fall flat on his face, but there's nothing in his history indicating he's going to have issues here). If he can be stashed away, he's worth a later pick as he will likely be able to product above average fantasy numbers from the C position.

[stringer bell]

Pinto should get at least 300 PAs this year. Also, his defense isn't as bad as reports. The Twins often cite stuff like this to motivate players to work on things. They said the same stuff about Ramos. Relative to most other young catchers, he's above average defensively. The main thing he needs to work on is game management. All young catchers have this issue, which is why they picked Susuki to serve as mentor.

 

I think he's every bit the prospect Ramos was. Ramos's power tool was much stronger, but Pinto's hit tool is much stronger. Otherwise, they are on par from where I sit.

I am glad to see some rationality on Pinto. He, from where I'm sitting, has the tools to be a very good defensive catcher. As cmath pointed out, he needs to work on game management, but just about every young catcher needs to do that. I'm not sure I would put him in Ramos' range as a prospect because Ramos was much younger when he reached the bigs, but I think he can and will be a quality starting catcher for a good stretch if he remains healthy.

[Jim Labruno]

Great help thanks to all of you for giving me advice.

[stringer bell]

It's a tough question. Pinto is a marginal prospect.

I think "marginal" is a bit strong to describe Pinto's prospect status. I would say that he isn't top tier and doesn't have an All-Star ceiling, but he profiles to be an average to better-than-average starting catcher IMHO. I like my prospects closer to the majors, so I tend to overrate the guys that do well in AA and AAA, but Pinto's progression suggests to me that he can be an over 100 OPS+ bat and league average or better defense.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think "marginal" is a bit strong to describe Pinto's prospect status. I would say that he isn't top tier and doesn't have an All-Star ceiling, but he profiles to be an average to better-than-average starting catcher IMHO. I like my prospects closer to the majors, so I tend to overrate the guys that do well in AA and AAA, but Pinto's progression suggests to me that he can be an over 100 OPS+ bat and league average or better defense.

 

Marginal might be a bit harsh but I think you're overselling Pinto a bit.

 

Yeah, his bat looks good... for a catcher. If he can't hack it behind the plate, his bat probably won't be enough to hack it at DH.

 

He's a tweener prospect. A great player to have if he can play defense well enough to stick in MLB, not terribly useful if he's not behind the dish.

[LimestoneBaggy]

I think Pinto in any other system (ignoring his 2013 September) gets much more attention. Projections (Oliver, Steamer) have him around .255/.318/.400. I feel like this is a conservative estimate if you are projecting 2015 on.

 

In short, I'm bullish on him....but feel (some) regression in 2014 is inevitable (BABIP inspired statement). I'd take him on that basis.

[stringer bell]

It seems to me that the difference between the optimists and pessimists is Pinto's defense. I think his defense will be more than adequate. His blocks pitches well, throws well, and hustles. His deficiencies seem to be the nebulous "managing a game" which can and should improve with experience. I think his bat plays from average to above average for a catcher and as I said I would think he will have an OPS+ north of 100 through the next few years. That is not Joe Mauer, but it is starter quality and many standard deviations above Sweet Drew.

[stringer bell]

Marginal might be a bit harsh but I think you're overselling Pinto a bit.

 

Yeah, his bat looks good... for a catcher. If he can't hack it behind the plate, his bat probably won't be enough to hack it at DH.

 

He's a tweener prospect. A great player to have if he can play defense well enough to stick in MLB, not terribly useful if he's not behind the dish.

Where I differ Brock is that he is not Matthew LeCroy, who just couldn't throw well enough to catch or to use a different position, he is not Brendan Harris or Trevor Plouffe, who just didn't/don't have the tools to be major league shortstops. Pinto has the tools, and a very good work ethic. The rest of his defense can and should develop to be at least acceptable.

[cmathewson]

Marginal might be a bit harsh but I think you're overselling Pinto a bit.

 

Yeah, his bat looks good... for a catcher. If he can't hack it behind the plate, his bat probably won't be enough to hack it at DH.

 

He's a tweener prospect. A great player to have if he can play defense well enough to stick in MLB, not terribly useful if he's not behind the dish.

 

There's no reason to believe he can't stick at catcher. He might not be All-Star caliber, but solid starter is his floor, barring injury.

[Thrylos]

I have seen Pinto play in multiple games over the last 3-4 years and he has been improving as a catcher on an annual basis, which is what you expect from a catcher. About game calling: the only way for a catcher to improve his game calling skills is to catch veteran pitchers and work with veteran pitching coaches. This does not happen at AAA but in the majors. Pinto is more than adequate defensive catcher. Much better than Doumit was last season. He will be fine as a starter.

[Brock Beauchamp]

About game calling: the only way for a catcher to improve his game calling skills is to catch veteran pitchers and work with veteran pitching coaches. This does not happen at AAA but in the majors.

 

This is why I want to see Pinto on the team out of ST. If his problem is game management, he should be learning that skill from Suzuki, Mauer, and Steinbach. I don't care if he's only playing twice a week, those three could help him tremendously.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Where I differ Brock is that he is not Matthew LeCroy, who just couldn't throw well enough to catch or to use a different position, he is not Brendan Harris or Trevor Plouffe, who just didn't/don't have the tools to be major league shortstops. Pinto has the tools, and a very good work ethic. The rest of his defense can and should develop to be at least acceptable.

 

True, but LeCroy also posted a MiLB OPS close to 100 points higher than Pinto.

[Thrylos]

True, but LeCroy also posted a MiLB OPS close to 100 points higher than Pinto.

 

In Salt Lake City in the PCL vs the IL. If 100 points higher in PCL, advantage Pinto. But Pinto's AAA numbers are extra small sample. Compare their AA numbers.

[stringer bell]

In Salt Lake City in the PCL vs the IL. If 100 points higher in PCL, advantage Pinto. But Pinto's AAA numbers are extra small sample. Compare their AA numbers.

The Twins had a Triple A team in Edmonton and then they had Salt Lake City for a few years. I remember a lot of marginal guys putting up great numbers, then coming to the majors and failing and flailing. It has to be a little bit more apples to apples comparison when comparing AAA stats. And still it is hard to project on stats alone. Chris Colabello being a very obvious example.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Marginal might be a bit harsh but I think you're overselling Pinto a bit.

 

Yeah, his bat looks good... for a catcher. If he can't hack it behind the plate, his bat probably won't be enough to hack it at DH.

 

He's a tweener prospect. A great player to have if he can play defense well enough to stick in MLB, not terribly useful if he's not behind the dish.

 

I don't understand your pessimism on him with this bat. His career minor league OPS is .821 with the last two seasons being well above that number, and he's not been old for his age either. I agree that there is good reason for caution, but this is a guy who could conceivably post plenty of seasons north of .800 OPS in a major league uniform. That type of bat will play at most any positions, even DH.

 

He's not a grade A prospect for a lot of reasons, but most orgs would be pretty happy with a guy like this in their system, and he'd be a top 3 prospect in a number of systems.

[TheLeviathan]

There's no reason to believe he can't stick at catcher. He might not be All-Star caliber, but solid starter is his floor, barring injury.

 

I think we need more than a month's worth of at-bats before we declare his floor is a solid starter.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't understand your pessimism on him with this bat. His career minor league OPS is .821 with the last two seasons being well above that number, and he's not been old for his age either. I agree that there is good reason for caution, but this is a guy who could conceivably post plenty of seasons north of .800 OPS in a major league uniform. That type of bat will play at most any positions, even DH.

 

He's not a grade A prospect for a lot of reasons, but most orgs would be pretty happy with a guy like this in their system, and he'd be a top 3 prospect in a number of systems.

 

I'm really not that down on him. Tempered expectations would be a better term. I think he'll be a MLB contributor for at least a few years... How effective? Not sure, but he's a solid prospect if he can stay behind the plate.

 

And while I think he has a pretty good bat, I'm unconvinced that he can post an OPS north of .800 in MLB. I'd love to be wrong, just a bit skeptical is all.