What would be a successful 2014 for the Twins?

[old nurse]

I would call this season a success if by mid season there were no more threads here about adding the latest player DFA.

[Brock Beauchamp]

success = making the postseason and getting deep into the post season.

 

Nothing else. And if that does not happen, the Pohlads should make wholesale changes, starting with the GM.

 

(Some) Twins' fans & press called the mediocrity of the 00s (after the awfulness of the late 90s) "success". Better does not mean great. And if you are ok with mediocrity, you will never see real greatness. No incentive.

 

Again, you need to look up the definition of "mediocrity" because you continue to misuse it.

 

Six playoff appearances and five 90 win seasons in a decade cannot be considered mediocrity. Period. End statement.

[Riverbrian]

I would call this season a success if by mid season there were no more threads here about adding the latest player DFA.

 

Why not ask for the moon and stars. It would be easier for the Twins to win the World Series!!!

[mikecgrimes]

Couldn't disagree more.

 

If that type of uber-elitist, condescending, results>>>>journey attitude is all you can muster then why not just go be a Yankees fan? And this isn't just aimed at Thrylos, half the posters on here only seem happy when they are pointing out how awful the Twins are and how they should be like a big market team like LA, NY, or Boston. They will spend big for you, they will claim any season without a world championship is a failure of a season, and they will put more successful teams on the field that the fan base could care less about as long as they are winning. That, IMO, is not what Twins baseball should be about. And thankfully, that is not what Twins baseball has historically been about. I will take the journey of rough years and good years instead of the shallow "success" they have in New York or LA.

 

While I agree with your way of looking at things, this board is very fair in that respect. Yes some are sick of certain things be it management or certain players, that can be annoying but as long as they make rational arguments fair. These are real Twins fans with possibly a small handful of exceptions. These are people who know the roster forward and backwards, are for the most part hopeful about Buxton, Sano and other prospects.

 

I can very easily if I want say I'm done with Gardenhire or sick of certain players. I can very easily see 90 losses again this season. I choose not to have that attitude as I have the option of not watching and if I did have that attitude I wouldn't watch. I love the Twins a franchise that won the world series at the age of 8 and 12. A franchise that I have never seen fire a manager, and a franchise that has given us a lot in seasons expectations have been low. It will take a heck of a lot more then 3 90 loss seasons to get down on this franchise, but for others thats fair. In baseball there is always a path to greatness if enough things go right so I'll worry about what might go wrong if and when it actually happens.

[Nate Haseman]

There is nothing elitist or condescending about wanting a team to win championships. I love this team through thick and thin, and I enjoy watching or listening to all the games. But not wanting your team to win the World Series every year is just freakin un-American! I think if the Twins make a run at winning the central I'll consider it a success, and I subscribe to the school of thought that thinks "this is a baseball and anything can happen." If we make the playoffs anything can happen in a seven game series.

[ashbury]

I would call this season a success if by mid season there were no more threads here about adding the latest player DFA.

 

I take this as a hope that the bottom-feeding days are nearly behind us. A player of borderline value to another team being the guy we need? I hope not, and soon!

[ashbury]

half the posters on here only seem happy when they are pointing out how awful the Twins are and how they should be like a big market team like LA, NY, or Boston.

 

Moderator's note: please avoid characterizing groups of TD posters. Few have opinions in lockstep with one another, but this kind of thing leads to increasingly polarized arguments for no reason.

[old nurse]

I take this as, not a comment about fellow posters, but a hope that the bottom-feeding days are nearly behind us. A player of borderline value to another team being the guy we need? I hope not, and soon!

 

It was not a comment about posters, only the quality of the players that was assembled.

[ashbury]

I, too, measure success by the W/L column. A successful season to me means games that matter, all the way through the regular season. A playoff chase deep into September would be a successful season.

 

We could probably achieve that by trading Buxton/Sano/Meyer for established players in the final year of their contracts who intend to explore free agency no matter what. Would 88 wins that way be success?

 

I'm not in favor of any single metric - as a previous poster stated, I'd like to see progress in multiple directions at once, while keeping any backsliding to a minimum. Appreciably closer to a .500 record, with yet more additions to the talent pipeline, will suit me.

[old nurse]

There is nothing elitist or condescending about wanting a team to win championships. I love this team through thick and thin, and I enjoy watching or listening to all the games. But not wanting your team to win the World Series every year is just freakin un-American! I think if the Twins make a run at winning the central I'll consider it a success, and I subscribe to the school of thought that thinks "this is a baseball and anything can happen." If we make the playoffs anything can happen in a seven game series.

 

It was condescending to call 90 win teams mediocre. They got to the playoffs. Anything could happen as you said. Not enough players rose up in enough series to carry the team. It would be hoped going forward when the team needs to add players when they are at a division championship level they pick up better than the Ponsons and Ortiz's from the available free agents.

[jimbo92107]

At this point, a successful Twins season for me would just mean no more concussions, and no more blown knees and elbows. I already expect a reasonable amount of progress from the young guys. I figure Hicks, Arcia, Pinto and Dozier will get at least marginally better.

 

This team is bound to get better if it can just stay reasonably healthy.

[jokin]

It was not a comment about posters, only the quality of the players that was assembled.

 

Right on- your comment is right at the heart of the situation. Last year we had a DFA acquistion starting at Shortstop and a guy coming up from AA batting leadoff and playing CF with no major league level back-up option, plus close to half the bullpen and most of the reserve players sprinkled in and out of the daily lineup were DFA/Waiver/minor league-FA acquisitions.

 

 

Of the 44 players that appeared in a Twins uniform in 2013-

 

18, or 41%, were picked up off of Waivers, Rule 5 or unheralded Free Agents.

 

 

As long as we swim in waters with that 41% level of speculative talent inhabiting the roster, the DFA/Waiver Wire discussions will continue- because there's an excellent chance that an upgrade is out there looking for a job. (And on a slightly related note, I'm all in favor of being a buyer in July/August instead of the dumpster diving, getting a quality player or two on 2+ years left on an unexpired contract).

 

But mainly, let's get more of the guys who actually represent the future on the field- that's my low bar for a successful season.

[Riverbrian]

My success is such a low bar to clear.

 

I want to watch good baseball.

 

I want clean cutoffs!!! I want amazing catches and throws!!! I want hard slides and the extra base. I want the hit and run executed and I want full focus and full effort during game 83 of the season.

 

If I watch good baseball... Played with pride. The wins will come.

[lee_the_twins_fan]

The key to this question is the word 'successful'. To me successful means making the playoffs – and more than just the one game for the wild card teams.

 

The Twins have gone from last to first before – in 1991, for instance. It can be done. Even with the Yankees and the Tigers in the mix, it is possible, even for the Twins.

 

Getting beyond the wild card solo game would be my definition of success. And with the arms the Twins have added, with Sano, Pinto, Arcia, Hicks and Meyer successful along with guys like Mauer, Dozier, Willingham, Suzuki, the bullpen and starting pitchers added, we could have a very good season. Yes we need nearly everyone to excel, but that's what happens on winning teams. And winning builds confidence and breeds more winning.

 

The Twins just can't sit still if they get off to a slow start.

[glunn]

Clearly, some people here have much higher standards and/or much different standards than other people. What I don't understand is the level of hostility contained in some of the posts.

 

It's OK to have a high standard. Other people may think that you are unrealistic or too demanding, but you are entitled to your own viewpoint.

 

It's OK to have a low standard. Other people may think that you are a naive "homer", but you are entitled to your own viewpoint.

 

Nothing we say here is going to affect the team's performance on the field in 2014, and we all hope that the Twins can win as many games as possible. And if the Twins fall far short of your personal expectations for 2014 but some other fan is satisfied, why rain on their parade?

[Reider]

Success is usually measured by wins, playoff appearances, and Championships etc.. However, looking at the big picture with the Twins, the team is in a rebuilding phase and are in the process of developing young players. Perhaps over the next couple of seasons, success can arguably be measured by the amount of progress the young guys make.

 

I"m undecided on how I define success in 2014, but I want to see good fundamentals, effort, and a team that never gives up regardless of what the score is. I want to see the coaches and manager make sound baseball decisions and I want to see the GM continue to build a future contender.

[Craig Arko]

Clearly, some people here have much higher standards and/or much different standards than other people. What I don't understand is the level of hostility contained in some of the posts.

 

Off-topic: Much of that hostility has been building up for some time. It just burst out here. I wish I had useful suggestions about de-fusing that, but I don't.

 

On-topic: Looking at the really big picture, I hope the Twins Community Fund benefits from the increased attention the team receives from the All-Star hosting. One of the things I like about this organization is the ties to the (to my) community. In the eternal forest/trees conundrum, this is a far more important matter to me. Otherwise, as Riverbrian says above, I just want to watch good baseball. When I go to a film, I don't judge it by how many Oscars I think it will win, but by how it makes me feel. Baseball is a sport, but it's also a performance art, and the quality of the performance suffices as an end in itself.

 

I think this is my longest post here ever. Time to go back to lurking.

[snepp]

Success? Not likely this season.

 

 

Progress, I surely hope so.

[Guest USAFChief]

We could probably achieve that by trading Buxton/Sano/Meyer for established players in the final year of their contracts who intend to explore free agency no matter what. Would 88 wins that way be success?

 

I'm not in favor of any single metric - as a previous poster stated, I'd like to see progress in multiple directions at once, while keeping any backsliding to a minimum. Appreciably closer to a .500 record, with yet more additions to the talent pipeline, will suit me.

Well, the question asked was "what would be a successful season," which is unrelated to "how do you get there?"

 

JB iowa's point above is a good one...progress and success aren't the same to some of us. And for me, "success" requires...success.

[The Wise One]

Well, the question asked was "what would be a successful season," which is unrelated to "how do you get there?"

 

JB iowa's point above is a good one...progress and success aren't the same to some of us. And for me, "success" requires...success.

 

If success to some is only wins and losses, it seems to me to be a rather limited view of sports and what sports is supposed to represent towards life.

[Guest USAFChief]

If success to some is only wins and losses, it seems to me to be a rather limited view of sports and what sports is supposed to represent towards life.

Fair enough, though I make a distinction between, say, T-Ball and Major League Baseball, in terms of the goal and "success."

 

In any case, it's how I would describe a "successful" season for the Twins. I sort of hope the Twins themselves have the same idea.

[johnnydakota]

The Yanks had great success in developing key players including Williams, Pettite, Rivera, Jeter and Posada. The Twins farm system didn't do so well.

 

1 the Yankees built a core group

2 they held there management accountible

3 they added top tier and lower tier free agents

to suppliment there core group....

 

4 there ownership expects to win every year,

not just when the stars line up every 55 years

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

* Improvement in every aspect(pitching, defense, offense)

 

* Josh Willingham will bounce back and allow us to trade him for a nice prospect or two.

 

* Nolasco, Pelfrey, and Hughes prove to be worth the money by being solid inning eating pitchers.

 

* Jason Kubel makes the team.

 

These 4 bullet points are mutually exclusive. If both Kubel and Willingham are on the team, it means they are playing very regularly at the same time. Both are very bad outfielders that will make the defense bad, and therefore Nolasco, Pelfrey, and Hughes (especially Mr. Fly ball himself Hughes) cannot prove worth. I wish Kubel luck, but the Twins need either Kubel or Willingham at DH and neither in the outfield.

[Riverbrian]

Becareful , thats what I got banned for last july....

 

And this may be a problem in February!!!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

For this season to be a success I echo riverbrian, I want to watch good baseball. Also I want both Gibson and Meyer to pitch so well that they earn rotation spots at some point this season and keep them when they arrive.

 

I would also like to see this team get faster in the outfield. Willingham and Arcia have no business being in the same outfield, adding Kubel to the mix makes me shudder. Arcia is the future, so he needs to stay. Presley/Mastroiani I'm fine with as 4/5 outfielder. Hicks needs to step up big. I can't think of an acceptable corner outfield combination that provides adequate offense and defense. Rosario is on a 50 game suspension, but seeing him or someone like him arrive and stay would make this season a success.

 

I'm happy with the infield defense, I think Plouffe, Escobar, Dozier, Mauer are pretty good defensively, with a dearth of offense at short. I'm ok with short being poor offensively, if that can be compensated for at catcher. If Sano knocks down the door, then maybe Plouffe is my answer in the corner outfield, but I find this scenario unlikely.

 

The options at catcher are offense or defense but not both. Pinto becoming the both would be a success, making Suzuki the back up (also success)

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Becareful , thats what I got banned for last july....

However I do agree, I want very much for Hicks, Florimon, and Pinto to take control of their positions in such a way that I don't yearn for someone else's cast offs as improvements over our current situation. Said poorly, but the sentiment rings true. I'm sick of watching AAAA players.

[Mike Sixel]

This team won't be sucessful in the sense of being competitive for the playoffs. I'm not sure they would've been even if they had gone nuts in FA either.

 

What I want is a this season not to be wasted, I want progress. Watching losses is hard enough - watching it with little to nothing progressing for the future? Unbearable.

 

This. The last couple of years have largely been wasted. The Twins learned little about prospects, almost no one came up and was good, and they still played old guys with no future (thinking they could somehow compete last year?).

 

1. The Twins find out if Hicks, Gibson, Dozier, Floriman, Arcia are part of the long term or not.

 

2. Meyer and Sano make their debuts and get their feet wet.

 

3. The FA pitchers are either really good, or really bad, again, so they know what they have with some certainty.

 

4. The key players in the minors advance.

 

That would progress for me. It wouldn't be success necessarily, but it would at least be progress.

[johnnydakota]

Success? Not likely this season.

 

 

Progress, I surely hope so.

 

Simple and direct....Progress I would like to see this year, is filling some holes long term.

Finally making choices on wether or not certain kids are going to contribute to winning .(Parm,Plouffe,Worley,Gibson,Diamond Colabello, Mastroianni and Florimon) and adding more magic beans to the system.Last year they added a pair in May and Meyer, but this year nothing....As for successful? Only 2 teams will be successful, and 1 team will have tears in there beer, and the other will shower in champain.... Go Twins

[JB_Iowa]

Much of this discussion depends on semantics.

 

The question that was asked in the thread title is what would be a "successful 2014 season" not what would be a "successful season" for the Twins (or any other team).

 

That distinction really points out why we see so many differing views on this thread. Some are willing to see progress as "success", others are absolutist and see "success" only in terms of what would be success in ANY season for ANY team. I tend to come down somewhere between the two.

 

None of the approaches are "correct", they simply point out a significant difference in the way that people view the question.

[Squirrel]

This. The last couple of years have largely been wasted. The Twins learned little about prospects, almost no one came up and was good, and they still played old guys with no future (thinking they could somehow compete last year?).

 

1. The Twins find out if Hicks, Gibson, Dozier, Floriman, Arcia are part of the long term or not.

 

2. Meyer and Sano make their debuts and get their feet wet.

 

3. The FA pitchers are either really good, or really bad, again, so they know what they have with some certainty.

 

4. The key players in the minors advance.

 

That would progress for me. It wouldn't be success necessarily, but it would at least be progress.

 

If these are goals you hope are achieved and they are, that is success. It's just not the ultimate success. Personally I agree with most everyone's points ... I want to see a lot more wins, I want to see at least a chase for a playoff spot, I want to see Mauer's transition to 1st be great, I want to see Pinto take the starting job, I want to see Hicks figure it out, I want to see Arcia progress, I want to see Dozier continue on his path, I want to see room made appropriately for Sano's and Meyer's debuts, I want to see Florimon and Correia not utterly suck. Hopefully most of these things happen and if they do, I will consider the season a success. I'll let you know in October.