Emilio Bonifacio DFA'd

[Jim H]

I can't really figure out what posters really want, for the team to be the best possible this year, even marginally so. Or rather, whether it is more important to find out about the pieces we already have and whether they fit into the future. Since I am a bit split on that question myself, I understand the confusion.

 

In this particular case, I am not so sure Bonifacio brings enough to the table to justify the at bats he will likely take from others. I am pretty sure Escobar can play at least 5 positions himself, not counting catcher. He doesn't run as well as Bonifacio and probably won't have as good as OBP. His defense is better, and he may be able to hit better with a little more pop. Maybe the at bats that Bonifacio would get should go to Escobar, this year. If only to find out what we really have in him.

 

I really wouldn't want Bonifacio to be taking at bats from Arcia, Dozier or even Plouffe. I want to see what these guys can do this year.

[The Wise One]

Essentially a league average OBP as your lead off hitter? With that criteria Willingham could lead off with better results. The various defensive metrics basically point to average at best, despite his speed, in any other defensive position but second base.

[stringer bell]

I can't really figure out what posters really want, for the team to be the best possible this year, even marginally so. Or rather, whether it is more important to find out about the pieces we already have and whether they fit into the future. Since I am a bit split on that question myself, I understand the confusion.

 

In this particular case, I am not so sure Bonifacio brings enough to the table to justify the at bats he will likely take from others. I am pretty sure Escobar can play at least 5 positions himself, not counting catcher. He doesn't run as well as Bonifacio and probably won't have as good as OBP. His defense is better, and he may be able to hit better with a little more pop. Maybe the at bats that Bonifacio would get should go to Escobar, this year. If only to find out what we really have in him.

 

I really wouldn't want Bonifacio to be taking at bats from Arcia, Dozier or even Plouffe. I want to see what these guys can do this year.

That is the nice thing about having a versatile player. Bonifacio could get ABs at several different positions. It is close to a sure thing that someone that Bonifacio can replace will struggle or be injured. He's versatile enough that he can get plenty of PAs even if somebody like Plouffe goes off. The club needs speed and that is Bonifacio's best quality.

[oldguy10]

How can Bonifacio utilize his speed when he will not even be able to get on base most of the time, just look at his OBP! Nice fit for Rochester though.

[old nurse]

There were those who accused the Twins of dumpster diving while going for pitching the last few years. In search of players for the field, there is yet another fan proposal for a one tool player.. Would positions and posts have been reversed had the Twins made a deal for this guy before he was DFA?

IIRC Ben Revere with his ,331 OBP and speed was not thought of very highly as a leadoff hitter because he did not walk enough, thus leading to a lower OBP..

Bonifacio should be a free agent now, able to sign a minor league contract anywhere.

[stringer bell]

Bonifacio has a lifetime BOP of .322 with a .360 and a .330 leading in to 2013. He was terrible for the Jays, but had a .352 for the Royals in 42 games. I think he's a low-cost upgrade in an area of need.

[stringer bell]

OBP not BOP.

[snepp]

BOP.

 

We could use more of that too.

[jokin]

How can Bonifacio utilize his speed when he will not even be able to get on base most of the time, just look at his OBP! Nice fit for Rochester though.

 

 

I've looked at the OBP. In reality, a nice fit for the Twins in a rotating utility role, when you consider the alternatives, and the fact that we lack a top of the order, on-base guy. Again, Bonifacio would be 3rd on the Twins in OBP behind Mauer and Willingham.

 

2011 Fla. .360

2012 Mia. .330

2013 Tor. .258

2013 KCR .352

 

OBP from 2011-2013: .332 (which ranks 15th among all qualifying 2B)

[jokin]

Bonifacio has a lifetime BOP of .322 with a .360 and a .330 leading in to 2013. He was terrible for the Jays, but had a .352 for the Royals in 42 games. I think he's a low-cost upgrade in an area of need.

 

Extreme need. Here are the alternative ZiPS projections for OBP candidates at the top and bottom of the batting order:

 

Presley .309

Dozier .303

Florimon .289

Excobar .287

 

And none of these guys can come anywhere close to stealing a base like Bonifacio has proven he can do.

[jokin]

Essentially a league average OBP as your lead off hitter? With that criteria Willingham could lead off with better results. The various defensive metrics basically point to average at best, despite his speed, in any other defensive position but second base.

 

League average OBP .318...... Bonifacio, in direct contrast has a .332 OBP over the last 3 years, and skewed down by one bad half-year experience with Toronto.

 

Average defense is a good thing when you can play 6 positions and provide the 3rd best OBP on a team without a true leadoff man. Your proposal is to instead bat guys in the leadoff spot that all threaten to OBP below .300.

[jokin]

I really wouldn't want Bonifacio to be taking at bats from Arcia, Dozier or even Plouffe. I want to see what these guys can do this year.

 

I don't think anyone wants PAs taken away from Arcia or Dozier, but they could use a day off every now and then, and there are certain pitching match-ups where Bonifacio undoubtedly has historically had an advantage.

[jokin]

There were those who accused the Twins of dumpster diving while going for pitching the last few years. In search of players for the field, there is yet another fan proposal for a one tool player.. Would positions and posts have been reversed had the Twins made a deal for this guy before he was DFA?

IIRC Ben Revere with his ,331 OBP and speed was not thought of very highly as a leadoff hitter because he did not walk enough, thus leading to a lower OBP..

Bonifacio should be a free agent now, able to sign a minor league contract anywhere.

 

 

 

Your use of Revere as an example is interesting. As one-dimensional as his game was for the Twins, the Twins were badly exposed at the top of the batting order in 2013, and that .331 by Revere (or whoever else) at the top of the order with his speed would look mighty good right about now. There's no doubt, Bonifacio is what he is, a 26th man, but a 26th man who actually has two main tools, not one, as you allege, who can help the right teams with his skill set. He is one of the best baserunners in the league, but also offers switch-hitting and positional flexibility, and fills a gaping hole on this team with his above-average ability at reaching base.

[jokin]

I did not use the statistic to measure future success. As you might have read WPA measures what has happened on a play by play basis. You cited a 2013 batting average compared to the Twins players as a reason to take on this player. I gave you a statistic that was more inclusive of what a player has done for the year and used it to compare what players contributed for that year.

 

There is no upside to this kind of signing. He is a substitute utility player. There is no upside. I would rather they sign a career minor league player coming of a bad season or two that had the upside of being average.

 

 

Every past statistic on Bonifacio would show that his value is base running and playing second base. The Twins have Dozier. The pinch running duties could fall to any number of Twins players that ride the bench under the tutelage of Molitor except for Parmalee/Collabello survivor.

 

 

There is no upside .....oh.....except the already-demonstrated upside that I've published and that you ignore (instead you use a non-predictive stat for some reason?) from his prima facie statistics relative to the alternatives currently inhabiting the Twins roster.

 

And yes, of course we would rather the Twins sign someone with more upside, but signing a career AAAA guy works out far, far, far, far less often than utilizing a proven major leaguer....who despite your protestations to the contrary, has been above average in 2 key areas where the Twins are clearly below average.

 

And no one has proposed making Bonifacio the designated pinch runner. The Twins need someone that has proven at the major league level that he can get on base better than the alternatives currently inhabiting the Twins roster. If you can think of others that are also about to become DFAs and can play multiple positions- with more upside, I'm interested in hearing about them.

[jorgenswest]

Based on reading through blogs and reports about Bonafacio's fielding, I don't think he is even average at any position. At best, may play a below average 2B and possibly LF. He would be a poor 3B, SS, CF and RF with his weak arm.

 

The last two years he has played only 2B, CF and LF with any significant innings. He hasn't started at SS since 2011. That is not a utility player. The only reason to sign him is if he is seen as a clear upgrade to Dozier and the a Twins see a Dozier as a utility player or a clear upgrade to Presley.

 

The Twins have several below average to poor fielders on the team already in Plouffe, Willingham, Arcia, Kubel, Suzuki, Parmelee, Presley(in CF) and Pinto. They don't need to add another.

[jokin]

Based on reading through blogs and reports about Bonafacio's fielding,

I don't think he is even average at any position.

 

At best, may play a below average 2B and possibly LF. He would be a poor 3B, SS, CF and RF with his weak arm.

 

The last two years he has played only 2B, CF and LF with any significant innings. He hasn't started at SS since 2011. That is not a utility player. The only reason to sign him is if he is seen as a clear upgrade to Dozier and the a Twins see a Dozier as a utility player or a clear upgrade to Presley.

 

The Twins have several below average to poor fielders on the team already in Plouffe, Willingham, Arcia, Kubel, Suzuki, Parmelee, Presley(in CF) and Pinto. They don't need to add another.

 

My assumptions on Bonifacio's defense as being average to slightly below average were based on BRef giving him a net postive rating in 2 of the last 4 years, with a practically neutral ranking in 2012 and a -0.5 in 2011.

 

 

 

You can only play 8 guys on defense at any one time. If you add someone with equal defense ("average to poor"), but who adds upgrades in speed and OBP to your lineup, that's still a net plus. And yes, I'm thinking that he gets the bulk of his PAs as a CF (sharing time with Presley), with occasional looks in LF, 3B and 2B.

 

 

Until someone comes up with a a couple better leadoff options- admittedly very sadly- Bonifacio still qualifies as someone likely to perform better when getting some of the leadoff ABs for the Twins. There is no legitimate projected leadoff batter in the organization AA and above, Mauer actually is the only one close to fitting the bill. While they're waiting on Buxton's arrival, it kind-of behooves the Twins to address this situation in the meantime.

[cmathewson]

OBP not BOP.

 

Cherry picking. He was terrible for the Jays over most of the season. He clicked with the Royals over fewer that 100 PAs. It's wishful thinking that we'd get that guy rather than the guy the Jays had. His ceiling is an average OBP. His floor is a .250 OBP. That's a waste of a roster spot unless he signs a minor league deal.

[cmathewson]

My assumptions on Bonifacio's defense as being average to slightly below average were based on BRef giving him a net postive rating in 2 of the last 4 years, with a practically neutral ranking in 2012 and a -0.5 in 2011.

 

 

 

You can only play 8 guys on defense at any one time. If you add someone with equal defense ("average to poor"), but who adds upgrades in speed and OBP to your lineup, that's still a net plus. And yes, I'm thinking that he gets the bulk of his PAs as a CF (sharing time with Presley), with occasional looks in LF, 3B and 2B.

 

 

Until someone comes up with a a couple better leadoff options- admittedly very sadly- Bonifacio still qualifies as someone likely to perform better when getting some of the leadoff ABs for the Twins. There is no legitimate projected leadoff batter in the organization AA and above, Mauer actually is the only one close to fitting the bill. While they're waiting on Buxton's arrival, it kind-of behooves the Twins to address this situation in the meantime.

 

Most of that was at second base. He's poor everywhere else.

[cmathewson]

Extreme need. Here are the alternative ZiPS projections for OBP candidates at the top and bottom of the batting order:

 

Presley .309

Dozier .303

Florimon .289

Excobar .287

 

And none of these guys can come anywhere close to stealing a base like Bonifacio has proven he can do.

 

 

But this guy can't play short or center. And are you honestly suggesting this guy is better than Dozier?

[cmathewson]

I hate to hog the conversation but, one other thing: As a utility guy, it's highly unlikely that he would ever lead off. Since when is OBP the only offensive stat we should consider for anything but the leadoff spot? His OPS is pathetic, especially since he can't play short or center. If I'm going to live with an 80 OPS+ guy, he better bring a better glove and play short. I'd rather have Escobar and Mastro.

[stringer bell]

A pretty good conversation here. I am on record as supporting the acquisition of Bonifacio, but the numbers can be convincing either way. On a couple of points I just don't know enough. Three years ago, he played 67 games at short and 36 at third. He has played a lot in center. Why he has played only second and corner OF, probably has something to do with his team's roster, unless there was an injury. I don't know if Bonifacio can capably play third and center, but if he can, IMHO it tips the scales to picking him up.

[jokin]

I hate to hog the conversation but, one other thing: As a utility guy, it's highly unlikely that he would ever lead off. Since when is OBP the only offensive stat we should consider for anything but the leadoff spot? His OPS is pathetic, especially since he can't play short or center. If I'm going to live with an 80 OPS+ guy, he better bring a better glove and play short. I'd rather have Escobar and Mastro.

 

Bonifacio has batted Leadoff or in the 2-hole for practically all of his career PAs. And Leadoff is where he's batted most often. (73% of PAs batting 1 or 2) Is there info out there that he can't play CF? 15 games in CF last year, 20 in LF, 5 in RF.

 

No one said OBP is the only offensive stat to consider batting leadoff, but combined with his elite speed, these are elements that are sorely lacking in this lineup. Too many Ks, not enough BBs, from virtually this entire cast of non-major league hitting options that the Twins are expected to open the season with at the top and bottom of the order. As weak as Bonifacio is, he's a way better proven MLB option for picking up the offense than Esco or Mastro- and even all of the supposedly "better" hitting options, when it comes to adding Speed and OBP.

 

I repeat. The Twins don't have a legitimate leadoff hitter. They are going to play the spot by committee, as they did last year, after the Hicks debacle. No reason Bonifacio couldn't be part of that committee.

[DocBauer]

You're probably right Jokin, although the Dodgers have signed two utility infielder types already this offseason. Here is what I see--Bonafacio is a good baserunner (undeniable), he's capable at second, better defensively than what the Twins have playing either corner OF spot, and his hitting is OBP-fueled and is marginal. Marginal is adequate for someone who brings his versatility. Bonus questions: Can he be a platoon alternative at third and short? Can he handle center field? If the answers are positive to the two bonus questions, then yes the Twins should pick him up. If he could raise his offense a tick or two, then he should be in the lineup almost every day somewhere.,

 

Great arguments on both sides. And without a superior glove or high OPS, I can clearly understand those not thrilled with his addition.

 

But let me point out we are talking about bringing something, overall, to the team that makes it deeper, more flexible, and thusly, better. We are talking about a versatile utility player to the team, not a star or starter.

 

On a 25 man roster you have 8 presumed, primary starting position players, 9 in most cases in the AL where you assume a primary DH. Virtually every team carries an 11 man pitching staff, and in many cases a 12 man staff. Having to have at least one backup C means a bench of 3 or 4 players at the most. At least one of those must be a quality backup middle inf. That now leaves an additional 2 or 3 bench players.

 

You have two choices here, generally speaking. One is a PH/part time DH type with a decent/big bat who hopefully can fill in decently at one position, OR, a versatile utility type player who can play multiple positions and hopefully offer up at least SOME offensive contribution. There is nothing about Bonifacio that screams or even whispers high quality starter. But again, we're talking useful, versatile utility player. A career BA of .262 and career OB% of .322 with excellent speed and stolen base potential with at least decent defense at multiple positions on an occasional, not every day, basis. His numbers don't stink, he gives us the ability for extra and SB, and positional flexibility to fill in.

[Riverbrian]

Great arguments on both sides. And without a superior glove or high OPS, I can clearly understand those not thrilled with his addition.

 

But let me point out we are talking about bringing something, overall, to the team that makes it deeper, more flexible, and thusly, better. We are talking about a versatile utility player to the team, not a star or starter.

 

On a 25 man roster you have 8 presumed, primary starting position players, 9 in most cases in the AL where you assume a primary DH. Virtually every team carries an 11 man pitching staff, and in many cases a 12 man staff. Having to have at least one backup C means a bench of 3 or 4 players at the most. At least one of those must be a quality backup middle inf. That now leaves an additional 2 or 3 bench players.

 

You have two choices here, generally speaking. One is a PH/part time DH type with a decent/big bat who hopefully can fill in decently at one position, OR, a versatile utility type player who can play multiple positions and hopefully offer up at least SOME offensive contribution. There is nothing about Bonifacio that screams or even whispers high quality starter. But again, we're talking useful, versatile utility player. A career BA of .262 and career OB% of .322 with excellent speed and stolen base potential with at least decent defense at multiple positions on an occasional, not every day, basis. His numbers don't stink, he gives us the ability for extra and SB, and positional flexibility to fill in.

 

Eggs-Ackley!!! Well said Doc!!! I'm giving you Jokin and String 4 points. Those points ain't worth much but it's the thought that counts.

 

I want Bonofacio on the roster. I don't want him because I think he is Jacoby Ellsbury. I want him for this roster... This team context... Because He's perfect and I can't think of a single player in all of MLB that's as perfect for our needs.

 

We are going into 2014 presumably with Trevor Plouffe at 3B and Alex Presley in CF and not a single experienced player at those positions backing them up.

 

Presley just might be the be the every day CF by default out of Spring Training just like Clete Thomas was in the back half of 2013.

 

Presley could hit .200 in 2014 and there is no one to take him out of the lineup. Presley could hit .200 and he'd have to be penciled in every day regardless.

 

I remember 2013... It wasn't that long ago. We started with Hicks in CF and he was all we had. Wilken Ramirez was the backup CF and after it was clear that Hicks had to be sent down. Here comes Clete Thomas and Clete played every day. I don't want to do that again!!!

 

Hicks needs to start at Rochester. We don't know if he's gonna figure out the MLB breaking pitch or not. Mastro is no guarantee to be rostered. Buxton won't be rushed and we have corner OF's coming out of our ears.

 

Escobar could play 3B if needed but Escobar won't push Plouffe for PT. Bonofacio could because of the speed he brings and the ability to get on base. He has a superior skill that can be utilized that Escobar doesn't have. Even if he has some skills that are deficient.

 

Plouffe was absolutely horrible in stretches last year. He played everyday regardless because we did not have a decent 3B option to replace him. He needs to be pushed. Sano probably isn't breaking camp with the big club.

 

Bringing in Bonofacio... Not as a starter but as a... I'm here and I'll take your job if you don't perform guy is exactly what this team needs and Bonofacio can do it at two positions we desperately need it at... 3B and CF.

 

We can't put Kubel in CF if Presley goes into a funk.

 

It was so frustrating watching Clete Thomas play every day. I don't understand how anyone can be afraid of bringing in Emilio Bonofacio after 92 Games with Clete Thomas.

 

And... He's a player that can easily be pushed aside to another role when Sano comes up and to another role when Buxton comes up. Or... Easily Cut... DFA'd... Or whatevered... If we magically become the loaded team of 25 monsters.

 

And... We need speed... We have no speed!!! Good God... We were station to station baseball... Game after game after game in 2013.

 

For those of you who don't want him... Good thing I'm not the GM because he'd already be here. OPS be damned!!! Bring him here.

[jokin]

Cherry picking. He was terrible for the Jays over most of the season. He clicked with the Royals over fewer that 100 PAs. It's wishful thinking that we'd get that guy rather than the guy the Jays had. His ceiling is an average OBP. His floor is a .250 OBP. That's a waste of a roster spot unless he signs a minor league deal.

 

His OBP is projected to be around .330 or higher--- that's a cherry that this team needs to pick. This is well above league average of .318. He has an OPS at .332 over the last 3 years, even with his bad time in Toronto- can you accept the possibility that there might have been underlying issues that contributed to such an outlier of a performance with the Jays?

 

Given that the Royals saw enough positive in 2013 and were very willing to re-sign Bonifacio at $3.5M for 2014 before they found someone better......and that the Twins won't be on the hook for anything close to that number, that it's at least worth a look to find out for certain if it really is "a waste of a roster spot." (I still see close to a dozen guys on this current roster that we would never miss if the Twins parted ways.)

[jokin]

Eggs-Ackley!!! Well said Doc!!! I'm giving you Jokin and String 4 points. Those points ain't worth much but it's the thought that counts.

 

I want Bonofacio on the roster. I don't want him because I think he is Jacoby Ellsbury. I want him for this roster... This team context... Because He's perfect and I can't think of a single player in all of MLB that's as perfect for our needs.

 

We are going into 2014 presumably with Trevor Plouffe at 3B and Alex Presley in CF and not a single experienced player at those positions backing them up.

 

Presley just might be the be the every day CF by default out of Spring Training just like Clete Thomas was in the back half of 2013.

 

Presley could hit .200 in 2014 and there is no one to take him out of the lineup. Presley could hit .200 and he'd have to be penciled in every day regardless.

 

I remember 2013... It wasn't that long ago. We started with Hicks in CF and he was all we had. Wilken Ramirez was the backup CF and after it was clear that Hicks had to be sent down. Here comes Clete Thomas and Clete played every day. I don't want to do that again!!!

Hicks needs to start at Rochester. We don't know if he's gonna figure out the MLB breaking pitch or not. Mastro is no guarantee to be rostered. Buxton won't be rushed and we have corner OF's coming out of our ears.

 

Escobar could play 3B if needed but Escobar won't push Plouffe for PT. Bonofacio could because of the speed he brings and the ability to get on base. He has a superior skill that can be utilized that Escobar doesn't have. Even if he has some skills that are deficient.

 

Plouffe was absolutely horrible in stretches last year. He played everyday regardless because we did not have a decent 3B option to replace him. He needs to be pushed. Sano probably isn't breaking camp with the big club.

 

Bringing in Bonofacio... Not as a starter but as a... I'm here and I'll take your job if you don't perform guy is exactly what this team needs and Bonofacio can do it at two positions we desperately need it at... 3B and CF.

 

We can't put Kubel in CF if Presley goes into a funk.

 

It was so frustrating watching Clete Thomas play every day. I don't understand how anyone can be afraid of bringing in Emilio Bonofacio after 92 Games with Clete Thomas.

And... He's a player that can easily be pushed aside to another role when Sano comes up and to another role when Buxton comes up. Or... Easily Cut... DFA'd... Or whatevered... If we magically become the loaded team of 25 monsters.

 

And... We need speed... We have no speed!!! Good God... We were station to station baseball... Game after game after game in 2013.

 

For those of you who don't want him... Good thing I'm not the GM because he'd already be here. OPS be damned!!! Bring him here.

 

Right. And don't forget 2B if....... God Forbid......What if Dozier or Florimon were to go down for an extended length of time? You could slide Bonifacio right into 2B and move Dozier to SS if Florimon went on the DL.

 

And wowzer points on Clete in CF, RB. I've been blocking that image for my own mental health. We had a AA-level guy who played more than half our games in CF last year, and some of us are balking at the prospect of picking up a legitimate major leaguer for next to nothing with the proposition of getting back-up time at the position.

[snepp]

And... He's a player that can easily be pushed aside to another role when Sano comes up and to another role when Buxton comes up. Or... Easily Cut... DFA'd... Or whatevered... If we magically become the loaded team of 25 monsters.

 

 

Yes to all of the above.

[old nurse]

Eggs-Ackley!!!

 

 

Here comes Clete Thomas and Clete played every day. I don't want to do that again!!!

It was so frustrating watching Clete Thomas play every day. I don't understand how anyone can be afraid of bringing in Emilio Bonofacio after 92 Games with Clete Thomas.

.

 

Thank you for your post. To me he is Clete Thomas. He brings speed but nothing else. How can someone with speed be an average to below average outfielder? Yet they list him with poor TZ and UZR numbers. He is no Revere in the field yet he has more speed. Like Thomas at some point he has shown talent. Something just doesn't seem right, like Thomas.

I do agree with Doc that the guy is flexible, but I don't think his overall talent would make the team deeper.

I would rather see the team trade for someone like Flores to be the bench guy. Ryan would have to give up something to get something. It would be better than the band-aid approach that failed miserably with the pitching staff.

[Riverbrian]

He brings speed but nothing else. How can someone with speed be an average to below average outfielder? Yet they list him with poor TZ and UZR numbers.

 

How indeed?

 

As for Zone ratings:

 

1. Sample size. He plays multiple positions. He plays where the team needs him to play and he hasn't been a regular starter either... apart from 2011 and 2009. When limited playing time is split by 6 different positions the numbers will be misleading. You need some more data to be fair to him. More data for stabilization.

 

2. I personally don't belong to the church of defensive stats so I'm not a good guy to dive into that.

 

If he truly does lack range with his speed... Reaction and route running would be the two biggest culprits. I don't see it when I watch him play.

[old nurse]

How indeed?

 

As for Zone ratings:

 

1. Sample size. He plays multiple positions. He plays where the team needs him to play and he hasn't been a regular starter either... apart from 2011 and 2009. When limited playing time is split by 6 different positions the numbers will be misleading. You need some more data to be fair to him. More data for stabilization.

 

2. I personally don't belong to the church of defensive stats so I'm not a good guy to dive into that.

 

If he truly does lack range with his speed... Reaction and route running would be the two biggest culprits. I don't see it when I watch him play.

 

There is a device that you can put on your finger to measure oxygen saturation in a person. If it gives you a good reading you know it is working. If you get a bad number, check the patient, then and most often troubleshoot. I think that pretty much sums up defensive metrics. Small sample size could be the problem. Does he have the small sample size because he does not play out there well? Reading the ball in various outfield positions and playing bounces off walls may not be the easiest thing to do. Regardless, someone saw things they did not like to get the numberThe lack of 3B/ss time would point towards not a great arm.