Stephen Drew

[Willihammer]

Do people want depth or not? There is probably no thinner position in the system than SS.

 

http://twinsdaily.com/content.php/2609-Twins-Organizational-Depth-Chart-Middle-Infielders

 

Escobar > Bartlett > Bernier

 

Geewizh, Bartlett and Bernier are 34 and 33. Too old to play SS.

[cmathewson]

Do people want depth or not? There is probably no thinner position in the system than SS.

 

http://twinsdaily.com/content.php/2609-Twins-Organizational-Depth-Chart-Middle-Infielders

 

Escobar > Bartlett > Bernier

 

Geewizh, Bartlett and Bernier are 34 and 33. Too old to play SS.

 

I would say the depth chart is closer to: Florimon > Santana > Bartlett > Escobar > Bernier

 

TR has said Santana is a dark horse candidate to win the job outright out of spring training.

 

It's still not as good as Drew. But it's not desperate. I'd say the Twins already feel they've signed their shortstop and are looking for a bench bat at this point. Part of a gentleman's agreement on a minor league deal is not to sign a starter on a major league deal. It would shock me if they signed Drew. We are wasting keystrokes talking about it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's still not as good as Drew. But it's not desperate. I'd say the Twins already feel they've signed their shortstop and are looking for a bench bat at this point. Part of a gentleman's agreement on a minor league deal is not to sign a starter on a major league deal. It would shock me if they signed Drew. We are wasting keystrokes talking about it.

 

In the case of Jason Kubel, sure, I think that agreement applies.

 

But in the case of Jason Bartlett, a guy that hasn't played an MLB game in nearly 24 months? Probably not so much.

 

And if it does exist, it shouldn't.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm waffling on Drew. Maybe the Twins are also. Does having Drew help them be better? I think so, I'm pretty sure. Does drew help them enough for it to "matter". Well, I think a team should always get better if they are not blocking a young guy and not tying up roster spots and money, generally. OTOH, I am not sure I would go to more games if Drew is there, or if Santana is there half way through the year (or Escobar).

 

I don't see a good SS solution this year, and maybe not next year, other than Drew, unless they are dealing a good asset for a good player/prospect.

 

So, do you try to get better, since you probably aren't blocking a legit prospect? Do fans want to watch older players on a bad team, or are they more likely to buy tickets to watch young guys struggle on a bad team? Last year was the worst. They were bad, and had few prospects up here (Hicks and Arcia and eventually Gibson). It wasn't some young team you felt you could grow with, imo.

 

So, what do you do? Not sure. I think I'd sign him, but I can see why they might not.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm waffling on Drew. Maybe the Twins are also. Does having Drew help them be better? I think so, I'm pretty sure. Does drew help them enough for it to "matter". Well, I think a team should always get better if they are not blocking a young guy and not tying up roster spots and money, generally. OTOH, I am not sure I would go to more games if Drew is there, or if Santana is there half way through the year (or Escobar).

 

I don't see a good SS solution this year, and maybe not next year, other than Drew, unless they are dealing a good asset for a good player/prospect.

 

So, do you try to get better, since you probably aren't blocking a legit prospect? Do fans want to watch older players on a bad team, or are they more likely to buy tickets to watch young guys struggle on a bad team? Last year was the worst. They were bad, and had few prospects up here (Hicks and Arcia and eventually Gibson). It wasn't some young team you felt you could grow with, imo.

 

So, what do you do? Not sure. I think I'd sign him, but I can see why they might not.

 

This mirrors how I feel about Drew, really. I lean toward signing him but it won't break my heart if they don't... But I really doubt Florimon is going to be an adequate shortstop. I expect little to no improvement from him. If the Twins are going to shore up the position, it will have to be from Escobar (almost as unlikely as Florimon) or Santana (still pretty unlikely).

[johnnydakota]

Why not both? You're making the assumption Diaz is major league ready, which there is considerable doubt on. Additionally there are quite a few out there that project him more as a 2nd baseman.

 

Me making assumptions? didnt I say a young guy to grow up with the team?

Well guess what, right now today , we aint got much of a team...when the 1st and 2nd wave of kids get here we will start to have something, so maybe 2014 -2016 he is ready , and that is when we will see most of our kids here , so I would make the assumtion that would be growing up with the team. As for Drew , not sure he will hit enough to make up for the defensive ability of florimon, and Me likes having the 2nd round pick this year(41-46th), hopefully our last drafing in the top 3rd of the draft, but if you believe the experts we have at least another year of losing 90+ games

[BigTrane]

Just to do a little Devil's Advocate here...

 

1) cmatthewson makes a good point about future depth... maybe we just have to ride it out a bit? What if Florimon does something with the bat in 14?

 

2) With the Arroyo gripes about no offers fresh in mind, what IF the go-nowhere market for Drew gets in his head and his price drops to bargain-basement levels? Sure, there's still the pick, but- Devil's Advocate- at what price level/years do you get seriously tempted to the point that you can justify giving up that pick?

 

Seems like this kind of math is where things are headed.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I've made my statements on Drew on many occasions. I don't see the big deal either way.

 

That said, am I the only one who thinks we shouldn't be discounting Escobar? The guy has shown flashes in his career of being able to hit quite well, and he's young enough that it could still translate in the majors...

 

 

/and I really really really want to be able to run the Liriano trade into Sox fans.

[Mike Sixel]

Nope, I listed Escobar as someone that might be blocked by Drew/Bartlett. I'd rather have Escobar up here than Bartlett.

[JB_Iowa]

Roster now at 39. (Good Luck in Korea, Andrew Albers).

 

Time for the Twins to show which way they are headed with another signing this off-season.

[gil4]

...am I the only one who thinks we shouldn't be discounting Escobar?

 

I'll second the motion.

[gil4]

Nope, I listed Escobar as someone that might be blocked by Drew/Bartlett. I'd rather have Escobar up here than Bartlett.

 

I think he might be blocked by Florimon and we might want to look a bit longer to see if we'd rather have him starting.

[Reider]

I think he might be blocked by Florimon and we might want to look a bit longer to see if we'd rather have him starting.

Escobar will have an opportunity in spring training to prove he deserves a starting spot just like everyone else in camp.

[twinsnorth49]

Me making assumptions? didnt I say a young guy to grow up with the team?

Well guess what, right now today , we aint got much of a team...when the 1st and 2nd wave of kids get here we will start to have something, so maybe 2014 -2016 he is ready , and that is when we will see most of our kids here , so I would make the assumtion that would be growing up with the team. As for Drew , not sure he will hit enough to make up for the defensive ability of florimon, and Me likes having the 2nd round pick this year(41-46th), hopefully our last drafing in the top 3rd of the draft, but if you believe the experts we have at least another year of losing 90+ games

 

I have no problem with the interest in Diaz, you might be right, although there is question about his range at SS. My question was what that had to do with signing Drew, we're mainly talking about making the team better right now, especially offensively. If you don't want to lose the pick, fair enough, personally I would.

[twinsnorth49]

I've made my statements on Drew on many occasions. I don't see the big deal either way.

 

That said, am I the only one who thinks we shouldn't be discounting Escobar? The guy has shown flashes in his career of being able to hit quite well, and he's young enough that it could still translate in the majors...

 

 

/and I really really really want to be able to run the Liriano trade into Sox fans.

 

I think it's a definite possibility Escobar is the Twins starting SS by the end of June.

[howeda7]

I guess this is where I differ with many of you.

 

Prospects are nice, but a 22 yr old who threw 16 innings for Elizabethton last year (and didnt impress much at that) is so far from being of any value to the major league team as to not be worth serious consideration compared to someone who can help the major league team immediately.

 

I get that every team needs to fill its system with talent, and hope that eventually a little bubbles to the top now and then. I also understand you might get a better prospect at that spot this year. You also might get worse, or not sign the guy you do draft.

 

This team has lost almost 300 games in three seasons. They should be worried about putting a better product on the field now, more so than what a second round pick might do for them in 2017.

 

This. The offense looks terrible right now, and Florimon is the darkest of the black holes in the line up. And there is no Buxton or Sano coming at SS. We have a need now and for the next couple years and a chance to address it. To pass on filling such an obvious hole over a second round pick is why I can't stand Terry Ryan sometimes. Always worrying about a tomorrow that never comes.

[cmathewson]

I don't get the Escobar love. He's a nice utility guy. But his range is marginal, and his bat is not much better. His career minor league OPS is .673, which projects him at around .600 as a full-time player in the majors. For reference, Florimon is a career .675 OPS guy in the minors and produced a .611 OPS in the majors last year, with better range and a stronger arm.

 

I suspect the Escobar love is a little like the back-up QB love we often hear on talk radio. He's a nice bench alternative, but he's not an upgrade. If you want an upgrade this year, you better hope that Bartlett returns renewed and refreshed and ready to make a comeback.

[halfchest]

I don't get the Escobar love. He's a nice utility guy. But his range is marginal, and his bat is not much better. His career minor league OPS is .673, which projects him at around .600 as a full-time player in the majors. For reference, Florimon is a career .675 OPS guy in the minors and produced a .611 OPS in the majors last year, with better range and a stronger arm.

 

I suspect the Escobar love is a little like the back-up QB love we often hear on talk radio. He's a nice bench alternative, but he's not an upgrade. If you want an upgrade this year, you better hope that Bartlett returns renewed and refreshed and ready to make a comeback.

 

I have to agree. I'm assuming it has something to do with the hot start he had last year as well. I can't say much about his defense as I don't remember studying him all that closely. Florimon looked great defensively by my eye test and seems to be an ok stopgap until the someone can come up and supplant him.

 

I'm all for getting Drew or Diaz as Florimon isn't likely the long term answer but Escobar definitely isn't.

[The Wise One]

Escobar is not Florimon. The love he is shown is sort of like the second string qb thing when your favorite football team is not doing well.

[nicksaviking]

Jim Bowden says the Red Sox have a two year offer out to Drew. If the assumption is that Drew would prefer play for a winner and stay where he's familiar, that almost surely means the Twins would have to offer three years which I hope is a deal breaker.

 

Of course Jim Bowden has proven to be inaccurate and delusional many times.

[DaveW]

If people don't want to sign Drew, thats fine. But to imply that the Twins have ANY legit in house candidates who will be anything more than a bottom third overall SS in this league is just wrong.

 

Escobar is a fringe 25 man roster type on a bad team, on a good team he has no real place. Florimon can't hit, period. He is a slick defender, but I think he isn't truly "elite" defensively. He is nothing more than a stop gap.

[ashbury]

Escobar is not Florimon. The love he is shown is sort of like the second string qb thing when your favorite football team is not doing well.

 

For me, the love (or optimism) for Escobar comes from him having completed just his age-24 season and the hope he still can progress a bit more at the plate. Bring that OPS up to .700, which his stint at AAA suggests is possible, and he's a useful player. Florimon, being two years older and starting from a lower base of demonstrated production, does not have even this same modest ceiling.

[Brock Beauchamp]

For me, the love (or optimism) for Escobar comes from him having completed just his age-24 season and the hope he still can progress a bit more at the plate. Bring that OPS up to .700, which his stint at AAA suggests is possible, and he's a useful player. Florimon, being two years older and starting from a lower base of demonstrated production, does not have even this same modest ceiling.

 

That's pretty much how I feel about it. I don't expect either player to be a competent starter in the majors but I reserve a small amount of hope that Escobar can pull it off.

 

Florimon, not so much.

[notoriousgod71]

Escobar is not Florimon. The love he is shown is sort of like the second string qb thing when your favorite football team is not doing well.

 

And in this case Florimon is Ponder and Escobar is Freeman. Or is it the other way around?

[Otto von Ballpark]

Jim Bowden says the Red Sox have a two year offer out to Drew. If the assumption is that Drew would prefer play for a winner and stay where he's familiar, that almost surely means the Twins would have to offer three years which I hope is a deal breaker.

 

Of course Jim Bowden has proven to be inaccurate and delusional many times.

 

Depends on the AAV. If Boston's offer is 2/20 or 2/24, then something between 3/30 or 3/36 could still be in play.

[oldguy10]

Regarding Florimon versus Escobar - I see no real urgency with either of these two players, the effect they will have on how well the team does with these two in 2014 is minimal. And by the time the team is ready to compete for post-season play in 2016 and beyond neither will be on the roster, correct? At that time Santana will be the regular shortstop - no doubt in my mind.

[Major League Ready]

Regarding Florimon versus Escobar - I see no real urgency with either of these two players, the effect they will have on how well the team does with these two in 2014 is minimal. And by the time the team is ready to compete for post-season play in 2016 and beyond neither will be on the roster, correct? At that time Santana will be the regular shortstop - no doubt in my mind.

 

I am sure you are right that neither Florimon or Escobar is the starting SS in 2016 but I am not as certain as you that it will be Santana. An international FA perhaps or a trade with one of the teams with depth at SS. Who knows, maybe it's Turner. I kind of like that idea because Buxton and Turner would be a lot of fun to watch on the base pads. Of course, Santana has good speed as well.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Depends on the AAV. If Boston's offer is 2/20 or 2/24, then something between 3/30 or 3/36 could still be in play.

 

If no one else will offer Drew a third year, I don't think the Twins should be the team to go that extra mile.

 

I'd much rather see them tack on a million or two per year than add a third year to the deal. The way the market has softened on players in recent weeks, there's no reason to buy a season of a mid-30s Stephen Drew, in my opinion.

[oldguy10]

Will the Twins take Trea Turner to fix the shortstop position ultimately?

[jokin]

Escobar is not Florimon. The love he is shown is sort of like the second string qb thing when your favorite football team is not doing well.

 

Nothing like that, at all. This is liking a similar, but younger, Taxi Squad QB over the incumbent third-string QB.