Article: Twins Trade Doumit to Braves

[howieramone1406390264]

I think people need to consider that Doumit isn't a worthless player. The problem is that he didn't have a role on the Twins since they have several guys that shouldn't play in the field and they are rebuilding. Doumit is not worth 3.5 M to an NL team but he does fill the a role on an NL team better than an AL team. He's a pinch hitter from both sides of the plate. Doumit isn't a great option as a starting DH but the Braves weren't going to sign a guy that is capable of being a full time DH.

 

It should have also been clear that the Twins weren't going to outright cut/DFA a player like Doumit. Gilmartin is nothing but AAA depth (not terrible) but not likely to contribute in the majors. I'm just impressed that the Twins didn't have to kick in any money in the deal. It actually isn't important but it does make Gilmartin mostly irrelevant.

 

You have no idea if this is true or not. What we do know is he was recently highly regarded, the Braves handled him in a unusual manner, and the Twins have been interested in him for some time. I would be very surprised if we don't see Gilmartin at Target Field at some point in time.

[TheLeviathan]

You have no idea if this is true or not. What we do know is he was recently highly regarded, the Braves handled him in a unusual manner, and the Twins have been interested in him for some time. I would be very surprised if we don't see Gilmartin at Target Field at some point in time.

 

If your evaluation was fair you'd also note that he's had shoulder issues and not performed well. None of us, including Ryan, know anything for certain.

 

It's nice we got someone like this for Doumit. I love the deal, but it's not sugar and spice and everything nice here either. The guy has some serious warts, that's why he was available.

[DocBauer]

Compelled to add my 2cents to the other $75 listed here. Lol

 

As I previously stated elsewhere, almost ever lineup I put together on paper for next year had Doumit as the 14th position player barring injury or just flat-out falling face in spring training.

 

So we trade a defensive liability who might not even make the club for something other than a bag of balls? Great!

 

It doesn't matter that the Twins still have free money on the books to spend. Now they have another $3.5 to add to the pot for a player they might end up cutting anyway.

 

And they have not only another roster spot on the 40 man, but room for another, possibly younger and potentially better player with some positional value on the 25 man. Where is the gripe?

 

Gilmartin is LH, young, up until this year a top 10 prospect, average FB with 3 other solid or better breaking ball and change of speed pitches who was clearly rushed through the Braves system, and endured a down year due to reported injury. As pointed out already, he's only 23! Even a return to AA to get his mojo back to begin the year wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

Even if he never achieves anything great, a potentially decent bullpen option, much less a decent 4th or 5th starter, for an extra piece that didn't fit in any longer, and saves us money to spend elsewhere, is a sound trade.

[Danchat]

I see Gilmartin's ceiling as a Anthony Swarzak-esque long reliever. I think he could crack the majors as a reliever, but I sure hope the Twins don't call him up as a starter....

And as everyone else has said, these pitchers are getting redundant. We need to DFA Kris Johnson and Albers...

[AlwaysinModeration]

This move is great, I like it. Here is the BP write-upon Gilmartin last year, when he was ranked #6 by Jason Parks I. The Braves' system:

 

6. Sean Gilmartin

Position: LHP

DOB: 05/08/1990

Height/Weight: 6’2’’ 190 lbs.

Bats/Throws: L/L

Drafted/Acquired: 1st round, 2011 draft, Florida State University (Tallahassee, FL)

2012 Stats: 3.54 ERA (119.1 IP, 111 H, 86 K, 26 BB) at Double-A Mississippi; 4.78 ERA (37.2 IP, 41 H, 25 K, 13 BB) at Triple-A Gwinnett

The Tools: 5 FB; 5 SL; 5+ CH

 

 

What Happened in 2012: True to form, Gilmartin made 27 starts, logged 157 innings, and forced weak contact at two levels in the upper minors.

 

 

Strengths: Pitchability; pedestrian fastball velocity, but can move pitch around and add/subtract; above average changeup is effective; keeps righties off fastball; has good sink and arm-side fade; slider flashes above average, works as average offering; good two-plane slice; above average command profile; makes it work.

 

 

Weaknesses: Lacks true plus pitch; relies on sequence and location; pitches to weak contact; not big bat misser; curveball is get-me-over/change-the-sight-line pitch; will pitch backwards off changeup.

 

 

Overall Future Potential: 5; no. 4 starter

 

 

Explanation of Risk: Low risk; mature arsenal; pitchability; already achieved Triple-A level.

 

 

Fantasy Future: Back-end innings chewer; league average at best; steady.

 

 

The Year Ahead: A crowded rotation could keep Gilmartin in Triple-A for a healthy chunk of the 2013 season, but an opening is only an injury away, and the 22-year-old southpaw has the makeup and arsenal to step up to the highest level and hold his own. The stuff is average to solid average, but he makes it work by moving the ball around and changing speeds, keeping hitters from sitting on his upper-80s/low 90s fastball. It’s not a sexy profile, but dependable innings eaters have a lot of value, and Gilmartin looks like a safe bet to live up to that prophecy.

[cmathewson]

Funny how this board was talking about DFAing Doumit yesterday and now the general tenor is that trading him for a former first-round pick was a bad move. Kubel would likely beat him out of the DH role. Fryer is a better defensive catcher. And Arcia and Parmelee are better options in right field. If they sign another catcher (which I expect), they would have needed to DFA him and eat his salary. Instead they traded him, dumped his entire salary on the Braves and acquired a player in an area of organizational weakness. I don't really see a downside.

[notoriousgod71]

You have no idea if this is true or not. What we do know is he was recently highly regarded, the Braves handled him in a unusual manner, and the Twins have been interested in him for some time. I would be very surprised if we don't see Gilmartin at Target Field at some point in time.

 

I'd be surprised if we don't see him at Target Field as well... and that's what concerns me. The Twins have shown they are not opposed to running out complete crap game after game.

[jokin]

I'd be surprised if we don't see him at Target Field as well... and that's what concerns me. The Twins have shown they are not opposed to running out complete crap game after game.

 

Ba-dum-dum....ssssss

[Craig in MN]

I like this deal, but it really makes me wonder what the next deal is. TR has been saying that he has more work to do, and unloading Doumit doesn't sound like the end of that work...just a step along the way. Evan swapping Doumit for Kubel doesn't seem like an obvious improvement....just a step towards something else. The most obvious next move would be signing or trading for a catcher, but having Doumit shouldn't have stopped them from making a small-time catcher move, and a big catcher move would be a surprise at this point. The same goes for pitching...even if they wanted another starter, there's no reason they couldn't do that before trading Doumit.

 

Trading Doumit might have signaled a DH acquisition, but they just did that with Kubel, so that seems almost impossible. The next biggest upgrade location seems like shortstop. It's quite a stretch, but perhaps bringing in a recent first-round talent in Gilmartin might be enough in Ryan's mind to make up for giving up a second round pick to sign Drew. I don't see any other free agent move out there that fits as an upgrade for this team, but doesn't block anyone obvious. I just don't see what the next step is here....maybe a trade.

[Shane Wahl]

Funny how this board was talking about DFAing Doumit yesterday and now the general tenor is that trading him for a former first-round pick was a bad move. Kubel would likely beat him out of the DH role. Fryer is a better defensive catcher. And Arcia and Parmelee are better options in right field. If they sign another catcher (which I expect), they would have needed to DFA him and eat his salary. Instead they traded him, dumped his entire salary on the Braves and acquired a player in an area of organizational weakness. I don't really see a downside.

 

Yes, exactly. And this has to be known as a pretty solid Terry Ryan offseason so far. Other than Pelfrey, this has all been good.

[jokin]

I like this deal, but it really makes me wonder what the next deal is. TR has been saying that he has more work to do, and unloading Doumit doesn't sound like the end of that work...just a step along the way. Evan swapping Doumit for Kubel doesn't seem like an obvious improvement....just a step towards something else. The most obvious next move would be signing or trading for a catcher, but having Doumit shouldn't have stopped them from making a small-time catcher move, and a big catcher move would be a surprise at this point. The same goes for pitching...even if they wanted another starter, there's no reason they couldn't do that before trading Doumit.

 

Trading Doumit might have signaled a DH acquisition, but they just did that with Kubel, so that seems almost impossible. The next biggest upgrade location seems like shortstop. It's quite a stretch, but perhaps bringing in a recent first-round talent in Gilmartin might be enough in Ryan's mind to make up for giving up a second round pick to sign Drew. I don't see any other free agent move out there that fits as an upgrade for this team, but doesn't block anyone obvious. I just don't see what the next step is here....maybe a trade.

 

Kubel on a minor league deal doesn't make another move for a DH next to impossible.

 

I think a trade to clear out more bodies is still going to happen. Kevin Correia has to have some interest in trade that TR is waiting to pounce on should he land another pitcher Pinto's lack of experience and health concerns makes it pratically obligatory that a veteran Catcher will be added- not many "big names" left. Now that the Mariners have expressed interest in Suzuki, I have to think that he would choose the M's, all things being equal.

 

If there isn't a significant sleeper in the 2nd round of the draft, the Twins have to consider Drew as their potential IF "Glue guy" on a 3 years deal to play next to Sano when he arrives.

[jokin]

Yes, exactly. And this has to be known as a pretty solid Terry Ryan offseason so far. Other than Pelfrey, this has all been good.

 

Yeah, it's great for those of us in that he's doing some of the things that we have been reasonably asking for the last couple years. This Doumit deal has to go in Terry's Top 5 Most Satisfying Chestnuts, possibly supplanting the one he claims is his #1 deal, ie, moving Scott Erickson.

 

A couple more space-clearing moves coupled with a trade and a signing, we will have answered a lot of questions and positioned ourselves much better going forward.

[Kirbek]

This one has my approval. Doumit didn't have much on field value last year and certainly wasn't a long term asset. To get a guy with a pulse while dropping his salary and roster spot is a great move. Lots to like here.

[johnnydakota]

All it comes down to is we traded for a younger version of Andrew Albers, and removed 3.5 milliom from payroll while opening up a space for Mike Pelfrey

[Joe A. Preusser]

I think this could be the standard reply to 80% of the proposed trades on here. I have never understand why people think they can add up a bunch of guys that a bad team doesn't want while including one decent prospect to get a better prospect.

 

Because that is how it has worked in 97% of all sports video games ever made.

[johnnydakota]

Why would any team say, "Hey, would you like to give us all your crap in one deal, and we'll reward you with a top 100 prospect?"

 

C'mon now.

 

The Padres were looking for left handed pitching and hitting.

Luke Bard is our 3rd, 1st rounder from the 2012 draft and keplar is a left handed hitting outfielder who is our 9 ranked prospect?

[johnnydakota]

I'd be surprised if we don't see him at Target Field as well... and that's what concerns me. The Twins have shown they are not opposed to running out complete crap game after game.

 

Just like being force fed Hernandez ....

[shs_59]

GREAT GREAT GREAT MOVE !!! The Best move TR & co. has made of the off-season (i feel Nolasco was given either 1 more yr. or 1 more million per year than he should have)

 

I remember the 2011 draft vividly; they were all set to take either P Sean Gilmartin or SS Joe Panik at pick #29 after someone was selected at #26, that was not a Twins target. Then promptly the Braves take Gilmartin at @ #27 and the Giants take Panik at #28...so the Twins were left with ...................wait for it............................ SS / 2B Levi Michael UNC.

 

OUCH

I remember thinking....

 

 

I really like Gilmartin, mainly because the Twins were high on him in that draft, and he was said to be a talent, taken as high as pick #11 or mid teens that year with helium before the draft, it was a semi-suprise he fell to late 20's as it was. Granted, so far it hasn't exactly worked out for him, as the Braves seem to be down on his stuff, as they were w/ diamond)

 

Although he has a low 90's / high 80's fastball , to me, when healthy, his upside is superior to Albers and is at least a rich man's Scott Diamond.

 

I know the minor leaguer's across baseball pretty well. i usually have a top 300-500 prospect list every year in all of the MLB.

I'm not as thorough and logical of the Twins system as Seth Stohs and J. Nygaard and others....but As far as other teams minor leaguers go i'd like to think i'm more than competent.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The Padres were looking for left handed pitching and hitting.

Luke Bard is our 3rd, 1st rounder from the 2012 draft and keplar is a left handed hitting outfielder who is our 9 ranked prospect?

 

Now is not the time to trade Max Kepler. He's coming off an injury-plagued season and underperformed his previous numbers. Maybe he's destined to be a bust but considering how often this board complains that JR sells low on prospects, people sure seem to encourage selling low on various guys.

[Camp_Shocker]

Speaking of Levi Michael... What is he doing for the organization? I never liked that draft pick anyways.

[Squirrel]

Funny how this board was talking about DFAing Doumit yesterday and now the general tenor is that trading him for a former first-round pick was a bad move. Kubel would likely beat him out of the DH role. Fryer is a better defensive catcher. And Arcia and Parmelee are better options in right field. If they sign another catcher (which I expect), they would have needed to DFA him and eat his salary. Instead they traded him, dumped his entire salary on the Braves and acquired a player in an area of organizational weakness. I don't really see a downside.

 

Um, I think, after reading this entire thread, that the 'general tenor' thinks this was a good move. Yes, there are a few who didn't like this move, but the majority have weighed in positively, so I think your characterization is a bit off.

 

As for me, I'm equally satisfied and think this was a good move.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Speaking of Levi Michael... What is he doing for the organization? I never liked that draft pick anyways.

 

He's a Rochester Red Wing.

 

Literally. He's the guy in the Red Wing costume.

[Major League Ready]

Now is not the time to trade Max Kepler. He's coming off an injury-plagued season and underperformed his previous numbers. Maybe he's destined to be a bust but considering how often this board complains that JR sells low on prospects, people sure seem to encourage selling low on various guys.

 

That's not the only thing that is wrong with this scenario. How does Luke Bard help if the Padres are looking for LH pitching?

[BigTrane]

Well, I for one think this is a great move.

 

Was on the board yesterday as part of the DFA Domuit movement, as I'd like to see the Twins sign Suzuki. That's my focus at the moment, so for me this is perfect.

Of course, as a 'Sign Suzuki' guy, I hope this means that step is soon to follow.

If/when the Twins sign a vet catcher, this will obviously be the deal that makes that possible.

Fingers crossed...

[Steve Lein]

BABIP drives WHIP. If you normalized his WHIP for league average BABIP you get 1.28. Normalize Thielbar's for league average BABIP and you get 1.38 FWIW...

 

Well, when I look at things like Duensing's Line Drive % (worst on Twins last year), the fact he was an extreme fly-ball pitcher, and that he had the 2nd worst Opponent Slugging % given up in their bullpen (only Roenicke was worse) - those things tell me bad luck with his BABIP didn't have as much impact as you think, but rather he was getting knocked around pretty good. That is also what my eyes remember seeing.

[Otto von Ballpark]

He's a Rochester Red Wing.

 

Literally. He's the guy in the Red Wing costume.

 

No way. Levi Michael is almost certainly pegged to wear a Rock Cat costume next year, at best.

[Craig in MN]

Kubel on a minor league deal doesn't make another move for a DH next to impossible. .

 

Well, a combination of Kubel, and the other guys on the roster, and the lack of much on the market make it nearly impossible. There's only a couple of Free Agent hitters that are likely to be any better than what the Twins already have at DH. Morales, but he requires a draft pick, and he's good but not great, and he's got no defensive value. His lack of defensive value is actually negative value, since if forces existing poor defenders to stay in the field. Kubel could at least play in the OF if one of the other OFs need a day off.

 

Nelson Cruz is similarly unlikely, but with the steroids issue and more insane demands. Choo would be really a great fit, but he turned down a 7 year $20 million/yr deal, and I don't see the Twins getting near that. After that, Drew is the only remaining free agent position player I'd have much interested in, and of course that doesn't affect DH.

 

Any other move would have to be a trade, and I don't see many fits there either.

[kab21]

You have no idea if this is true or not. What we do know is he was recently highly regarded, the Braves handled him in a unusual manner, and the Twins have been interested in him for some time. I would be very surprised if we don't see Gilmartin at Target Field at some point in time.

 

It's called prospect evaluation. Gilmartin is not a very good prospect. Even in his good season he didn't strike out many batters and his upside is the Correia, Blackburn or Diamond type of pitcher. He might make the majors and he might be fringy capable starter or reliever for awhile but it's more likely that he doesn't make contribute in the majors.

 

And that's the point. This trade isn't about the prospect return. It's about moving Doumit in a trade (and the salary) instead of unceremoniously DFA'ing him (that wasn't going to happen).

[Heimer]

Nailed it! If the kid makes a contributation it's a great bonus.

[thetank]

I thought Doumit didn't want to catch anymore which is why would the Braves want him since he won't DH in the NL?