Clete Thomas Is The Twins Starting Right Fielder? Really?

[John Bonnes]

Started this in the game thread, but it's probably it's own topic...

 

Iif we're looking for a reason to get worked up about Gardy's lineup, forget this 3rd catcher crap - Clete is the topic we should be focusing on. Thomas has STARTED in right field six of the seven games he's been with the Twins. What the hell?

 

I can understand it a couple of times. For instance, his first game, he gets a pass. His second game he gets a pass because he had the big first game. And I can understand the two starts when the lefties were on the mound and Gardy was protecting/resting Morneau. But that still doesn't explain Game 3 in NYY and tonight. Parmelee is getting screwed here.

 

Is this just Gardy riding a relatively hot hand, trying to find out what he can do? Or is this going to be a problem/season long obsession?

[gunnarthor]

I think Gardy is more or less riding the hot hand but also likes his defense and Domit isn't hitting all that well right now. I think you'll see something similiar to how he split Dustin Mohr and Keilty back in 02.

[Highabove]

"He really get's after it"

[Bark's Lounge]

I agree with John that Parmelee is getting screwed. Parmelee needs to get the reps in RF as 1B may not be his for a couple years or more. No offense to Clete, but Parmelee is the better option... now and for a good distance into the Twins Future.

[SDTwinsFan]

Maybe this is Gardy's way of trying to force TR to get Parmalee back down to AAA for more experience? Not that Parmalee looks bad, but he definitely could benefit from some time in AAA.

[Seth Stohs]

Doumit is doing a lot of catching, and I believe he played RF against a left-handed pitcher. Sometimes players just need a change of scenery and an opportunity, and I'm willing to give some ABs to Clete Thomas to see if he's an example. Most likely, he eventually proves himself to be a 4th/5th OF, but let it play out.

 

I agree that Parmelee is the one hurt by it. With Doumit catching more, Mauer is at 1B, and Parmelee isn't getting time in RF (which may be good too). He should be in Rochester.

[Bark's Lounge]

I understand the whole "Parmelee needs more time in the minors argument". The truth of the matter is that he has done nothing on the field to indicate that course of action. Parmelee is 24 with 6 years in the Minors and he is MLB ready. At the end of the year baseball fans will be impressed with his stat line and he will get some ROY votes. I feel very confident I will not Eat Crow on this statement.

[Thrylos]

I agree with Seth re: Parmelee being in Rochester. Maybe he should have been optioned instead of Luke Hughes being cut the other day.

 

To the original question: It seems to me that Gardenhire is doing what we wanted him to do forever: Have a true platoon. I have no issues with a Thomas/Plouffe RF platoon. Doumit can play there occasionally as well, but both he and Parmelee are as fleet of feet as Kubel was. So for the sake of defense I'd rather see the Thomas/Plouffe platoon. Would pretty much work like the originally envisioned Revere/Plouffe platoon (at LF) but at this point I think that Thomas maybe brings something more than Revere with the bat.

 

If Doumit and Mauer catch 50% of the time and the other is either on 1B (Mauer) or at RF (Doumit) I have absolutely no problem with that.

[Shane Wahl]

It's not simply that he needs more time in the minors. He just needs to be playing every day. There is no reason to start Clete over him in RF. If Gardenhire is doing this for defensive purposes, then Willingham should be in RF and Revere up and in LF.

[Bark's Lounge]

Is this just Gardy riding a relatively hot hand, trying to find out what he can do? Or is this going to be a problem/season long obsession?

In regards to this portion of John's question:

I think it is too early to tell. The fact that this is on most Twins Fans minds is pretty revealing. Gardy suffers from some kind of Valentine's Syndrome for certain players. I am keeping my fingers crossed that this is not the case this time.

[twinsnorth49]

Doumit is doing a lot of catching, and I believe he played RF against a left-handed pitcher. Sometimes players just need a change of scenery and an opportunity, and I'm willing to give some ABs to Clete Thomas to see if he's an example. Most likely, he eventually proves himself to be a 4th/5th OF, but let it play out.

 

I agree that Parmelee is the one hurt by it. With Doumit catching more, Mauer is at 1B, and Parmelee isn't getting time in RF (which may be good too). He should be in Rochester.

So who's the starting RF then? If Thomas is a 4th or 5th then who takes the majority of the time, Doumit? Plouffe? I think Gardy is playing the hot hand and seeing if it continues ,but it doesn't appear we have a regular RF.

 

I've said before that Parmelee's days are numbered, not because of bad play but simply what's best for him in the long run. If things continue to progress, Morneau will get more turns at 1st base, with Mauer and perhaps Doumit ultimately taking more reps as well. That leaves Parmelee struggling to find playing time there as well as in RF.

 

Thomas isn't going to Rochester so if the Twins want Parmelee to continue to develop, he should go to Rochester for the time being.

[John Bonnes]

So I made at least one mistake - Thomas has only started five games, not six. He played last last night but did not start versus the lefty. So that's good news. It is looking like mostly a platoon in RF between Thomas and Plouffe.

 

But it still raises the question - why is Thomas starting over Parmelee ever?

- When Mauer is catching, Doumit could always be the LHed guy in right field.

- And then just "rest" Mauer at 1B or DH when facing a southpaw.

- If facing a southpaw AND Mauer needs rest, then I guess I can see Thomas starting over Parmelee occasionally, but it's not like Parmelee can't play right field. He played about half his games there in the minors.

 

Thomas should be getting two starts a week, not five. And it's not like we don't know who this guy is. Three hits in his first three games doesn't override a 1000+ plate appearances in AAA where he hit .252. Especially not when he's 28.

[Thrylos]

- If facing a southpaw AND Mauer needs rest, then I guess I can see Thomas starting over Parmelee occasionally, but it's not like Parmelee can't play right field. He played about half his games there in the minors.

.

In that case, Plouffe should be the right fielder

 

I've seen Parmelee play RF in about 10-15 games now, most of them with the Rock Cats, some in ST and I think one or two with the Twins. He is very immobile out there. His range is not any better than Doumit's. He, like Doumit, is an outfielder on paper (like Kubel was.) I think that his future is at 1B (and with Sano and Harrison coming up and Morneau there for another season) his window there will be short... so unless he really concentrates in one position (he is not excellent defender in 1B) he will end up like Kubel (a DH and PT fielder) sooner than later.

[Bark's Lounge]

(he is not excellent defender in 1B)

Parmelee was voted the best defensive 1B in the Eastern League last season.

[silverslugger]

I certainly don't consider Clete Thomas' production, 3/13 overall and 0/4 in his most recent start, "playing the hot hand". Clete Thomas has been described as nothing more than replacement level by most of the blogosphere since the Twins picked him up. So, what's the over/under on number of AB's between Thomas and Butera that is acceptable for the Twins at the end of the season? 250? 300? 400?

[minn55441]

I think Gardy wants to find a right fielder and we don't have one on this roster.

 

Plouffe is an athletic SS that was forced into the outfield.

Doumit is a catcher that is still nimble enough to run around and catch the ball.

Parmalee is 1B that is still young enough to run around and catch the ball.

Revere is an outfielder but has no power and a below avg arm for right field.

 

Did I miss anyone? Clete is an outfielder and is above average in the field, both in terms of his arm and his range. It is yet to be determined if he can cut it at the plate. He only has 13 At bats for us. I think Gardy wants to give him a real shot, just to see what he can do. If it clicks for him in Minnesota and he turns into a .280, 20 HR guy, great for him great for us. We just got the steal of the year. If it turns out that he is a career 4th outfielder or late inning defensive replacement, at least they gave him a shot. I really didn't follow his career with the Tiger's, but he got 116 AB's in 2008 with 1 HR .772 OPS and 275 Ab's in 2009 with 7 HR .709 OPS

 

Nothing since 2009. I'm sure TR and Gardy had a talk before they ever picked him up and decided the kid needs a shot. Give him 100AB's maybe 200AB playing every day. If he makes it great, if not it was worth the risk.

 

In my mind there is a big difference between getting 200 at bats spread out over an entire season, many of them as a pinch hitter, rather than the chance to play every day and get 25 to 30 at bats per week.

[twinsnorth49]

Parmelee was voted the best defensive 1B in the Eastern League last season.

he was probably was an all-star in little league too.

[twinsnorth49]

So I made at least one mistake - Thomas has only started five games, not six. He played last last night but did not start versus the lefty. So that's good news. It is looking like mostly a platoon in RF between Thomas and Plouffe.

 

But it still raises the question - why is Thomas starting over Parmelee ever?

- When Mauer is catching, Doumit could always be the LHed guy in right field.

- And then just "rest" Mauer at 1B or DH when facing a southpaw.

- If facing a southpaw AND Mauer needs rest, then I guess I can see Thomas starting over Parmelee occasionally, but it's not like Parmelee can't play right field. He played about half his games there in the minors.

 

Thomas should be getting two starts a week, not five. And it's not like we don't know who this guy is. Three hits in his first three games doesn't override a 1000+ plate appearances in AAA where he hit .252. Especially not when he's 28.

I agree with what you're saying if the decision is to keep Parmelee in the lineup, which he needs to be in order to stay up. The question then is, why did they even bother to pick up Thomas? They seem to have just as good options already in house.

[Bark's Lounge]

he was probably was an all-star in little league too.

I get it. You was thinks was Parmelee stinks. I was not trying to was offend you. Point was taken was.

[twinsnorth49]

I get it. You was thinks was Parmelee stinks. I was not trying to was offend you. Point was taken was.

I'm not offended, sorry for the comment, couldn't resist, it's a problem I have. I don't think Parmelee stinks at all, I just feel that he's in a bit of limbo especially if Morneau starts playing more 1st base, I don't necessarily think he should be in limbo. I kind of like the idea of him playing RF but picking up Thomas has muddled that situation as well.

 

I don't think he needs more seasoning so much as I think it would just benefit from playing all the time. If that's with the big club the I'm ok with that, he just should play.

[Bark's Lounge]

The question then is, why did they even bother to pick up Thomas? They seem to have just as good options already in house.

Thomas can play all 3 OF positions very well and has a good arm. He can also be viable offensively in certain situations. Benson would fit that same bill, but unlike Parmelee, Benson can use a little more time in the minors and has a high upside, unlike Clete Thomas.

[Bark's Lounge]

I'm not offended, sorry for the comment, couldn't resist, it's a problem I have. I don't think Parmelee stinks at all, I just feel that he's in a bit of limbo especially if Morneau starts playing more 1st base, I don't necessarily think he should be in limbo. I kind of like the idea of him playing RF but picking up Thomas has muddled that situation as well.

 

I don't think he needs more seasoning so much as I think it would just benefit from playing all the time. If that's with the big club the I'm ok with that, he just should play.

This is all banter for fun - not to be taken seriously. I agree with you that Parmelee should play almost everyday. Right now, I think he is playing enough, but the Twins are treading a fine line right now with his playing time. He will be sent down if they take this any further with Thomas' playing time along with other 1B options. My problem is the following:

 

- The pitching stinks and will stink for the foreseeable future. Thus making this season a non contending one

- In the event of these kind of seasons, doesn't it make more sense to get the young positive projectable players MLB experience to speed up the rebuilding process and

their development

- It is important to keep the fans interested, but most who like baseball will invest their time whether the teams sucks or is a contender

- I feel like the front office does not know how to be honest with the fans. Willingham, Carroll, Marquis and the countless less than average relievers they signed was

unnecessary for the most part... a smoke screen. Rebuilding teams need to fill spots, but I am not sure the Willingham and Carroll signing were needed because we have

Benson, Dozier and a few others who could have filled these roles and learned on the fly. Rebuilding can be painful, but putting young players in starting spots can

expediate the process

[Top Gun]

CHC: RHP Michael Bowden acquired from Red Sox

[jctwins]

Started this in the game thread, but it's probably it's own topic...

 

Iif we're looking for a reason to get worked up about Gardy's lineup, forget this 3rd catcher crap - Clete is the topic we should be focusing on. Thomas has STARTED in right field six of the seven games he's been with the Twins. What the hell?

 

I can understand it a couple of times. For instance, his first game, he gets a pass. His second game he gets a pass because he had the big first game. And I can understand the two starts when the lefties were on the mound and Gardy was protecting/resting Morneau. But that still doesn't explain Game 3 in NYY and tonight. Parmelee is getting screwed here.

 

Is this just Gardy riding a relatively hot hand, trying to find out what he can do? Or is this going to be a problem/season long obsession?

This post is pretty negative for what is suppose to be a Twins message board. Give Gardy a break.

[Mike Sixel]

A Twins' message board is for talking about the TWins, not just cheering them on. I can't believe anyone would think Bonnes is anything but a huge Twins' fan.....I appreciate an honest discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of the team, and I hope this site never turns into just a cheerleading location.....

[twinsnorth49]

A Twins' message board is for talking about the TWins, not just cheering them on. I can't believe anyone would think Bonnes is anything but a huge Twins' fan.....I appreciate an honest discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of the team, and I hope this site never turns into just a cheerleading location.....

............................+1

[pjnelly]

Thomas has now struck out more than half the time he has been up to bat this season. Why exactly did Grady not pinch hit for him in the 9th? I saw the strikeout coming when he was in the on deck circle.

[twinsnorth49]

I'm pretty sure Thomas starts his swing while the pitcher is still in his wind-up.

[Ultima Ratio]

Well, playing the hot hand surely is not a guy who goes 0-4 with 3 k. If that's hot, then Butera will be have the hot hand at C in no time.

[greengoblinrulz]

the problem with Thomas playing to me comes back to Morneau not being able to play 1B regularly. Willingham should then be the fulltime DH & Revere shoulda been the fulltime LF. I was looking forward to a Plouffe/Tosoni type platoon in RF. With Parmelee playing 1B, it weakens the defense at both 1B and LF