The Return of Mike Pelfrey

[stupidloser55]

None of us could've done that. When I said "overall" I meant it. Most of the moves that built those teams were drafts, trades that worked out great for the Twins. Now over the past few years, any of us could've done those and probably signed better players to boot. (Talking exclusively on the MLB side of things, not international signings, drafting, development, etc) TR needs to evolve. He has the budget to do so. Evolution doesn't mean change 100%, hell I still have monkey arms, my point is that he should still be able to do all of the things he has done in the past that have made him successful (scout, develop, make sneaky trades) while for once in his career, he has the money to supplement his roster with talent from outside the organization through FA, something he really has never had the money to do.

 

I'm not 100% sold on the idea that he understands he has the money to sign players better than Corriea, Pelfrey, Marquis. EVOLVE TERRY.

 

You post with the assumption that some of these other players want to sign here. We don't know that. Put yourself in the position of say, Nolasco or Garza. The Twins will give you, again, just for argument sake, 4/60. But so will 2-4 other teams, who are much better than the Twins are, and maybe they are even in better areas of the country. Where would you sign? Now assume that to get those players, the Twins have to overpay by 20%. Are either of those guys worth 4/72 or 5/90?

 

Remember here, the Twins (if I recall correctly) are putting a lot of their eggs in the 2015-2017 baskets. I'm fine holding off paying for someone for one more season. That gives the core one more year to prove they are ready to play at higher levels, one more year to deal with potential injuries or side tracks, and one more year to see what other guys can do like Dozier, Hicks, Pinto, Arcia, etc.

 

Getting Garza or Nolasco right now doesn't save us from another rough season or two anyways. In my personal opinion, 2014 will probably be another 90 loss season. 2015 might be close, but, we should at least be seeing a lot of the future players trying to figure it out at the MLB level. 2016 should be the year we're playing at least .500 ball and back to having a chance to compete again. I say that based solely on the basis of this team banking on the future of Sano, Buxton, May, Meyer, Arcia, Barreios, and Stewart.

[twinscowboysbulls]

You post with the assumption that some of these other players want to sign here. We don't know that. Put yourself in the position of say, Nolasco or Garza. The Twins will give you, again, just for argument sake, 4/60. But so will 2-4 other teams, who are much better than the Twins are, and maybe they are even in better areas of the country. Where would you sign? Now assume that to get those players, the Twins have to overpay by 20%. Are either of those guys worth 4/72 or 5/90?

 

Remember here, the Twins (if I recall correctly) are putting a lot of their eggs in the 2015-2017 baskets. I'm fine holding off paying for someone for one more season. That gives the core one more year to prove they are ready to play at higher levels, one more year to deal with potential injuries or side tracks, and one more year to see what other guys can do like Dozier, Hicks, Pinto, Arcia, etc.

 

Getting Garza or Nolasco right now doesn't save us from another rough season or two anyways. In my personal opinion, 2014 will probably be another 90 loss season. 2015 might be close, but, we should at least be seeing a lot of the future players trying to figure it out at the MLB level. 2016 should be the year we're playing at least .500 ball and back to having a chance to compete again. I say that based solely on the basis of this team banking on the future of Sano, Buxton, May, Meyer, Arcia, Barreios, and Stewart.

 

Are you seriously okay with that?

 

I'm okay with losing next year, not 90 games though. Adding a guy like Garza will put more butts in the seats, it will make the team more enjoyable to watch, it will make them more competitive in the games he pitches. Is that worth the 17 million per year? I don't know that. I do know that adding a piece like Garza on a 4 year deal will make the team better when some of these prospects are up with the team in 2015, 2016 and very affordable.

 

If we go with your plan, our payroll will literally be 50 million dollars or less next year. Which is great, if your last name is Pohlad.

 

As far as being interested in playing here. If the Cardinals and the Twins offer you the same money and the same spot on the roster is available, obviously they are going to pick the Cardinals. We are going to have to spend a little bit more than our competition. The sooner that happens, we look more competitive to other potential free-agents. Let's put it this way, since analogies have become a big hit around here. If TR is running in a 110 M hurdles race against the GM's for the Blue Jays, Red Sox, Yankees, Orioles, Padres, Giants and Dodgers who do you think Garza is cheering for to win the race? If he is cheering for you, you have less hurdles in your lane. If you play in a warm city, take away another hurdle. If you have the most money to spend, just jump over the damn hurdles faster than the other guys.

[Otto von Ballpark]

First of all, thank you moderators for changing the name of this thread. I have no problem with posters venting, even prematurely, about the offseason, but for gosh's sake, if you are posting a rumor or news item, make that the thread title! And if you're not posting a specific rumor or news item, find an existing thread to complain in, don't start a new one.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Remember here, the Twins (if I recall correctly) are putting a lot of their eggs in the 2015-2017 baskets. I'm fine holding off paying for someone for one more season.

 

This isn't the community's belief, is it? I mean, I'm not advocating going crazy on the FA market, but if they come back with the same type of guys (or in Pelfrey's case, the exact same guy) as the last few offseasons (Pelfrey, Correia, Doumit, Harden, etc.), it's going to be very hard to willfully disbelieve the "TR is just cheap" hypothesis anymore, no matter how good the farm system might look right now.

 

That doesn't mean TR is a bad GM or the Twins are doomed forever, but it does mean any rebuild with him at the helm is going to take at least 4-5 years, minimum.

[stupidloser55]

I'm not saying I agree with it. But, but, given who is in charge (TR) and what I'm speculating may be happening, I'm OK with it. I don't have a choice. So I'm trying rationalize and understand what might be happening.

 

If it were my team, or my money, I'd have tried to find a way to sign Peralta at SS, AJ at Catcher, and preferably Garza. That would add around $50M per year to our payroll, getting us near $100M spot for 2014. That would have solved a huge hole at SS and the lineup, AJ gets us some much needed veteran leadership and fire, and Garza would give us a front end pitcher we don't currently have.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'm not saying I agree with it. But, but, given who is in charge (TR) and what I'm speculating may be happening, I'm OK with it. I don't have a choice. So I'm trying rationalize and understand what might be happening.

 

It's been rationalized and explained a lot over the past few years. If the Twins are punting 2014 anyway, then I guess it doesn't matter, but I'd finally like to see some real evidence that TR is able and willing to use free agency to significantly improve the team. It may not matter much to the 2014 club, but it's going to matter someday, and it would be nice to get that little "test" out of the way now.

[stupidloser55]

And that's what I'm getting at too, spycake. If we are punting 2014, which I feel like we probably are, then I'm not going to get all riled up over Pelfrey and or Arroyo being our main signings. I'm 100% with you that I too would like to see TR spend some dollars but, at the sake of sounding repetitive, I'm OK if he's not doing it because the players just don't want to come here (which we don't know) or, and again I hate saying wait til next year, but if the plan is to just completely open the coffers for 2015. Then I'd be OK with all this. In the meantime I don't really have a choice but to try and convince myself otherwise

 

My 2015 Wish List:

 

1.) Homer Bailey

2.) JJ Hardy

3.) Billy Butler

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Ricky Nolasco signing before Winter meetings doesn't feel like a punt. It's odd because I've been pessimistic regarding 2014 FA signings, and the potential of the 2014 club in general. I'm feeling like the Grinch after returning all the presents.

[goulik]

Using football terms? Ok,

Signing Nolasco this early is a first down, not a punt. It did not put us in field goal range yet (playoff dreams) or come close to a TD (WS Dreams) But it was a 20+ yard pass by a QB (TR) we are not used to seeing go downfield!

 

So now we are driving the field. The fans are excited and getting loud! We think that if TR can hit the speedster WR Garza and a couple other youngsters block well (Rookies come up and do well, a young pitcher exceeds expectations, Gibson lives up to the hype) we just could get into that field goal range! If we can get either TE (Salty or AJ) going our chances of scoring would improve. But realistically we will probably need more contributors than that even.

 

This is the Gophers vs Ohio St. So most fans are realistically just hoping to be competitive here but deep in our hearts we are always dreaming that everything could fall in place for the win but in the end we would be happy ending the season with a lesser bowl game and build the program for 2015 run for the roses.

[goulik]

Sorry about that massive run on sentence to end that last post... I guess I need an editor.