2014 HoF ballot

[Brad Swanson]

I'm late to this party after being early to the party. I wrote about my Hall of Fame ballot back at the beginning of December, but I didn't include it until now for strategic reasons.

 

I forgot.

 

I am "Big Hall," so I chose 10, but wanted to vote for 17. I also proposed building a second Hall on top of the existing Hall. I actually don't remember writing that; I must have blacked out. Anyway, if you're interested:

 

http://smartpitcher.blogspot.com/2013/12/my-hall-of-fame-ballot.html

[nicksaviking]

  Thrylos said:

Love that size of the head talk regarding Bonds and proof of steroid use by big head and big muscles . Check this out:

 

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2840/11806566255_c5fa94fb9f_z.jpg

 

http://tireball.com/mlb/files/2013/01/frankthomas.jpg

 

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/dam/assets/130109214120-barry-bonds-650-single-image-cut.jpg

 

http://sportscasm.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/frank-thomas.jpg

 

Me thinks that Thomas has a bigger head and bigger muscles...

 

And for comparison's sake, here is Thomas' rookie card picture:

 

http://acimg.auctivacommerce.com/imgdata/0/2/7/3/3/5/webimg/4287638.jpg

 

 

You forgot Bonds' rookie card:

http://cdn1.swagbucks.com/content/uploads/prizes-4/image24590.jpg

 

Thomas seemed to have gotten chubby cheeks, Bonds seemed to have gotten chubby everything.

[Brad Swanson]

Bonds is wearing the hell out of that suit in the top picture. White tie with a white shirt, good look.

[MWLFan]

We can go around and around on the PED guys. Those who believe that Bonds-Clemen were a Hall of Famers before they decided to up their performance beyond normal human mean. Those folks are right. On the other side what truely set Clemens and Bonds on Olympus from the rest of the humans playing baseball was how they were able to perform at a high level into the "twilights" of their careers. How they defied the ravages of time that a majority of baseball players face in their mid to late 30's and then into their 40's was truely amazing, and the thought it that it may have had a little to do with what they were sticking into their bodies does linger. So people who look at them as tainted in their later, yet quite prolific, years are skeptical of the level of greatness they achieved. McGwire and the others are in a different category for me. Very good, but a bit of one trick ponies in some cases. (Yeah McGwire beat Hrbek for a Gold Glove one time, that doesn't make him a great asset in the field.) So I see validity in both arguements and respect where both groups are coming from and in the end have to side with one.

 

My Ballot.

 

Maddux-Best pitcher of his generation in my mind. (Including pre Roids Clemens.)

Glavine

Thomas

Biggio

Raines

Piazza

*Bagwell

*Walker

*Trammel

 

* Not all together on board with these guys, but would vote for them. I could go either way.

 

In the end for me it is the Hubris of Clemens and Bonds that holds me back. To take what greatness they already possesed and then doubled down on it to put themselves on such levels out of what looks to me as personal fits of ego. It is one thing to train and work harder to cheat time and baseball history, it is another to find this in a bottle and go beyond the scope of the natural human experience. This is just how I feel, I know that it is contary to others and I am fine with that.

 

On a side note. Is it time to go out into the wilderness and bring Pete Rose back into the fold. Has his punishment been long enough and is it now time to say we may not fully forgive you and you still cannot work in baseball because we don't trust you, but you were one of the greatest to play the game and we want to honor that legacy on the field. I say this as someone who has never been for letting him into the Hall. But could a accomadation be made in his lifetime?

[steve]

MLB.com writers have released their HoF ballots.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-mlbcom-writers-voted-in-hall-of-fame-balloting?ymd=20140106&content_id=66341930&vkey=news_mlb

 

It's always interesting to see how seriously people take this matter.

[Tibs]

Because of the Hall of Fame voting this week, I've been looking up some of the greats in baseball history. How has there never been a unanimous selection into baseball's hall of fame? I don't see how someone like Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays etc. isn't a unanimous selection.

[snepp]

I believe Tom Seaver has the highest vote % at something like 98.85 or something.

[thetank]

  steve said:

MLB.com writers have released their HoF ballots.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-mlbcom-writers-voted-in-hall-of-fame-balloting?ymd=20140106&content_id=66341930&vkey=news_mlb

 

It's always interesting to see how seriously people take this matter.

See the Dodgers beat writer not voting for anyone but Morris. Steroid era.

[steve]

  thetank said:

See the Dodgers beat writer not voting for anyone but Morris. Steroid era.

 

He's been taking a LOT of heat for that.

[nicksaviking]

  steve said:

He's been taking a LOT of heat for that.

 

As he should. I'm in the anti-PED camp but his rationale is stupid. Morris and Maddox pitched in the same league for 8 years. When does he think the steroid era started? There is no firm date, but I think we can safely say Jose Canseco was juicing during Morris' tenure, mostly because he admitted as much. At the very least, he lists Mark McGwire, Rafael Polmeiro, Juan Gonzalez and Ivan Rodriguez as guys he saw juicing (or he actually injected) and every one of them were teammates with Conseco BEFORE Morris retired, meaning Morris also played with or against PED users.

[Jim Crikket]

  Tibs said:

Because of the Hall of Fame voting this week, I've been looking up some of the greats in baseball history. How has there never been a unanimous selection into baseball's hall of fame? I don't see how someone like Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays etc. isn't a unanimous selection.

 

Essentially, it's because a contingent of BBWAA members are so indignant about their own childhood heroes not being elected unanimously that they refuse to allow any of the modern era players go have that honor. "If Mantle wasn't unanimous, nobody should be, so I will never vote for anyone on their first ballot."

 

It's really just a small group of grouchy old farts (and I say that as an admitted grouchy old fart, myself).

[Thrylos]

  snepp said:

I believe Tom Seaver has the highest vote % at something like 98.85 or something.

 

Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Ripken Jr and Ty Cobb are all at 98.something in the order mentioned high to low; bet the difference has to do with the total number of ballots cast each year.

 

That's as far as BBWAA voting goes. There are 2 unanimous members Josh Gibson (1972) & Cool Papa Bell (1974) who received 100% of the votes of the Negro League Committee. The VC committee votes have been recently tabulated only (2008; before that it was just names announced) and there have been no unanimous elections since then.

[PseudoSABR]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10261922/baseball-hall-fame-class-2014-announced

 

[TABLE]

Player

Votes

Pct.

[TR=class: last oddrow]

Greg Maddux

555

97.2

[/TR]

[TR=class: last evenrow]

Tom Glavine

525

91.9

[/TR]

[TR=class: last oddrow]

Frank Thomas

478

83.7

[/TR]

[TR=class: last evenrow]

Craig Biggio

427

74.8

[/TR]

[TR=class: last oddrow]

Mike Piazza

355

62.2

[/TR]

[TR=class: last evenrow]

Jack Morris*

351

61.5

[/TR]

[TR=class: last oddrow]

Jeff Bagwell*

310

54.3

[/TR]

[TR=class: last evenrow]

Tim Raines*

263

46.1

[/TR]

[TR=class: last oddrow]

Roger Clemens*

202

35.4

[/TR]

[TR=class: last evenrow]

Barry Bonds*

198

34.7

[/TR]

[TR=class: last oddrow]

Lee Smith*

171

29.9

[/TR]

[TR=class: last evenrow]

Curt Schilling*

167

29.2

[/TR]

[TR=class: last oddrow]

Edgar Martinez*

144

25.2

[/TR]

[TR=class: last evenrow]

Alan Trammell*

119

20.8

[/TR]

[TR=class: last oddrow]

Mike Mussina

116

20.3

[/TR]

[TR=class: last evenrow]

Jeff Kent

87

15.2

[/TR]

[TR=class: last oddrow]

Fred McGriff*

67

11.7

[/TR]

[TR=class: last evenrow]

Mark McGwire*

63

11.0

[/TR]

[TR=class: last oddrow]

Larry Walker*

58

10.2

[/TR]

[TR=class: last evenrow]

Don Mattingly*

47.0

8.2.0

[/TR]

[TR=class: last oddrow]

Sammy Sosa*

41

7.2

[/TR]

[TR=class: last evenrow]

Rafael Palemeiro*

25.0

4.4

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

* = lost votes from previous year

 

Others receiving votes: Moises Alou, 6; Hideo Nomo, 6; Luis Gonzalez, 5; Eric Gagne, 2; J.T. Snow, 2; Armando Benitez, 1; Jacque Jones, 1; Kenny Rogers, 1.

 

---

 

Who in the Twins media has HOF votes?

[darin617]

This is a joke I don't think Jacque Jones will ever even make it into the Twins HOF. Whoever voted for him should never have voting privileges ever. I know it doesn't hurt anyone to cast a vote for a player but it is an embarrassment to the game when you see the names that get votes(vote). They need to blowup the whole system and kick most of the writers out that are casting votes and come up with a better system.

[thetank]

  nicksaviking said:

As he should. I'm in the anti-PED camp but his rationale is stupid. Morris and Maddox pitched in the same league for 8 years. When does he think the steroid era started? There is no firm date, but I think we can safely say Jose Canseco was juicing during Morris' tenure, mostly because he admitted as much. At the very least, he lists Mark McGwire, Rafael Polmeiro, Juan Gonzalez and Ivan Rodriguez as guys he saw juicing (or he actually injected) and every one of them were teammates with Conseco BEFORE Morris retired, meaning Morris also played with or against PED users.

 

Morris will have to make it in the Veterans Committee. Wonder if he pitched fewer complete games if that would have made his ERA and WHIP numbers better since managers today think 6 or 7 innings is enough.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I like the guy who voted for Jacque Jones more than I like the guy who voted for Morris but not Maddux. That's just embarrassing.

[Willihammer]

I'll go out on a limb and say it was this guy: http://vimeo.com/83641554

[UCLA_YANKEE_COLA]

On such a stacked ballot (in my mind there are 11-14 HOFers on the ballot) it's sort of annoying when someone gives a vote to a no-doubt non-HOFer. But my biggest problem is Bonds/Clemens. Since the only reason to not vote for them is PED issues, they should both have the exact same votes every year. Anything else reeks of homerism (or potentially another -ism) or someone still hurt that Bonds was a big meanie to the press.

[kydoty]

  nicksaviking said:

As he should. I'm in the anti-PED camp but his rationale is stupid. Morris and Maddox pitched in the same league for 8 years. When does he think the steroid era started? There is no firm date, but I think we can safely say Jose Canseco was juicing during Morris' tenure, mostly because he admitted as much. At the very least, he lists Mark McGwire, Rafael Polmeiro, Juan Gonzalez and Ivan Rodriguez as guys he saw juicing (or he actually injected) and every one of them were teammates with Conseco BEFORE Morris retired, meaning Morris also played with or against PED users.

 

 

If he were honest, his would've revealed his rationale as "Hey everyone! Look at me announce my douchebaggery in the attempt to get more eyeballs on my blog!"

[Steve Penz]

I have heard the argument before that the voters should be required to make their votes public and they can then be asked to explain themselves. That makes sense. It is really sad that Baseball has allowed this to become so silly. I know the HOF is a private entity but it represents baseball and should be fixed. I would love to love it. I don't.

[pierre75275]

The guy that voted for Jones pry had room on his ballot by not voting for Maddux

[cmathewson]

  Brock Beauchamp said:

I like the guy who voted for Jacque Jones more than I like the guy who voted for Morris but not Maddux. That's just embarrassing.

 

Probably the same guy. Also, 20% for Mussina? WTF!

[Thrylos]

I just changed my mind about this HOF voting: Since the writers try to make political statements and pass personal agendas with this vote, the HOF should take that privilege away from them. They do not deserve it. From the steroids witch hunting and not voting for people never proven guilty, just because they feel they are guilty, to sending empty ballots, to voting for non-worthy pet players to non-voting for someone like Maddux so he would not be unanimous, they blew it. Gone. No more BBWAA votes for the HOF.

 

How would players get in? It is a museum for the fans, let the fans (who are the ones who are spending $ to go and see the museum and not the writers who get in for free) vote. Open voting like the All-Star game, but have a 75% cut off.

 

Much.Less.Drama

[nicksaviking]

  Willihammer said:

I'll go out on a limb and say it was this guy: http://vimeo.com/83641554

 

Yes probably. Poor Richie Sexson did not have a Sid Hartman in his corner!

 

Happens all the time though. Sports writers throw a bone to a guy they covered for years. I'm sure Jacque will show that off to get a couple free drinks tonight.

[thetank]

For that matter why should Sosa and Palmeiro get way less votes than either 2 of them? They would both would be elected to the HOF if they retired in time before the scandal came out.

[edavis0308]

  Thrylos said:

How would players get in? It is a museum for the fans, let the fans (who are the ones who are spending $ to go and see the museum and not the writers who get in for free) vote. Open voting like the All-Star game, but have a 75% cut off.

 

Much.Less.Drama

 

I hate that idea. You would end up with just as many people that don't deserve to get in that play for the big market teams and players that would deserve to get in that wouldn't because they don't get the coverage the other guys did.

 

I like that the people that vote should be more educated than the average baseball fan...but jeez stuff like this really makes one question that thought.

[Thrylos]

  edavis0308 said:

I hate that idea. You would end up with just as many people that don't deserve to get in that play for the big market teams and players that would deserve to get in that wouldn't because they don't get the coverage the other guys did.

 

I like that the people that vote should be more educated than the average baseball fan...but jeez stuff like this really makes one question that thought.

 

Did you see the Deadspin Ballot (i.e. the fan ballot?) : Maddux, Thomas, Glavine, Piazza, Biggio, Martínez, Bagwell, Clemens, Bonds, Schilling. Story here.

 

That was the top 10. If you had the 75% cut-off rule, the inductees would have been: Maddux, Glavine & Thomas (already in by the writers) plus Piazza and Biggio.

 

I'd say as a group, the fans did about as good a job (if not better) than the writers. As a matter of fact, baseball fans probably watch more baseball than some of those guys who got the privilege because they covered baseball 25 years ago and now they moved to politics or horse racing or something like Gophers Basketball...

[Halsey Hall]

Well who reads Deadspin? Not the average fan. Fan voting would never work. Look at the votes Gladden gets for the Twins Hall of Fame. No way he deserves to get in, but thank goodness the vote isn't the final say.

 

Some writers won't vote for anyone in the steroid era. Some disregard the steroids and look at the stats to determine who's deserving. If I were voting, I'd pass until Pete Rose was made eligible.

[Joe A. Preusser]

  nicksaviking said:

Yes probably. Poor Richie Sexson did not have a Sid Hartman in his corner!

 

Happens all the time though. Sports writers throw a bone to a guy they covered for years. I'm sure Jacque will show that off to get a couple free drinks tonight.

 

As well he should.

 

The selection process is a complete farce. If I had a vote I would have done the same thing. Why not give the guy something to put up on his den wall?

[chaderic20]

Maybe instead of voting yay or nay for getting in they should use a ranking process. Send out a ballot with all eligible players, and voters MUST rank ALL the players from 1 through however many players there are. Then either assign points to each rank and have a point threshold a player must reach to be elected, and threshold to reach to remain on the ballot (though the thresholds would have to change every time the number of eligible players and/or voters changed, so that would get messy). Or say a player must have an average rank better than a certain number to be elected and better than a certain number to remain on the ballot.